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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)


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24 minutes ago, sandman said:

I think Leia space poppins is by some margin the oddest thing in all 11 movies 

 

The execution was terrible but the idea of Leia getting blown into space and using the force to pull herself in before she froze was really good I thought. 

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2 hours ago, Treble said:

To be honest, my biggest disappointment in the new trilogy is the complete inability of either director to create an exciting spaceship battle.

The Death Star run and escape through the flames at the end of RotJ still hasn’t been beaten. 

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2 hours ago, Treble said:

To be honest, my biggest disappointment in the new trilogy is the complete inability of either director to create an exciting spaceship battle.

 

They've done good in-atmosphere spaceship action sequences (still love the Falcon escape and the shots of Poe swooping to the rescue in his X-Wing in TFA), but agreed that outside of Rogue One, the Disney SW films haven't had any truly great space-set spaceship action.

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52 minutes ago, Delargey said:

 

The execution was terrible but the idea of Leia getting blown into space and using the force to pull herself in before she froze was really good I thought. 


Yep. The idea was perfectly fine, but the effects were rubbish. Same with Tarkin in Rogue One.

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2 hours ago, sandman said:

As I don't use social media at all then perhaps the severity of the vitriol against her has indeed passed me by.  

 

As a committed anti sexist the rise in sexism over the last 10 years has been disheartening. It's such a shame to see women in their 20s and 30s much more willing to accept low level sexism than women of the same age did in the 80s and 90s. Personally I feel the vast majority of young women are much more excepting of low level sexism nowadays.

 

Is this sort of thing common on Twitter or Facebook? If so, then why do they exist?

 

My dislike of her performance is due to her lack of talent and that, for me, she sticks out like a sore thumb because the rest of the cast in TLJ are brilliant (apart from Del Toro of course)

 

 

 

"accepting"

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It's not that Rose's character or arc is bad now (because she shares it with Finn) but that Tran is an utterly shit actor. But she doesn't deserve bullying, she's just terrible at her career. All those people on the internet shouldn't be mean to her, she's just shit.

 

That's lovely.

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Went to see it this evening. It really is a retconned mess that has obviously been through a tonne of panicked reworking but then I suppose it had to be after everything went so badly awry with TLJ. Still, it was more enjoyable than that film and bits of it were really cool.

 

Overall though, the new trilogy has been trash. Rather than dwell on why, I find it best to imagine appropriate fates for the people who fucked it up so badly.

 

JJ Abrams: given that he appears content to incoherently regurgitate the work of Lucas, the talentless little runt needs to learn something about digestion. He should be sent to The Mighty Sarlacc where he will be able to consider his crimes while his body is agonisingly broken down over a thousand years.

 

Kathleen Kennedy: I'm sorry but how can you be a producer of a massive trilogy like this and not insist on some sort of overall plan? She must have been paid a fucking fortune too. Bitch needs to learn about hard work so it's the Spice Mines of Kessel for her.

 

Rian Johnson: the fact he made up bullshit about the contemporaneous reception of ESB to try and excuse his woeful attempt at intergalactic film making means that Hoth is his new home. He will either freeze to death outside or share a cave with a one-armed snow monster who will sodomise him daily. 

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I don't think anyone's linked to this yet: here are Chris Terrio's comments on why Rose is barely in the film:

 

https://www.awardsdaily.com/2019/12/24/star-wars-screenwriter-chris-terrio-on-ending-the-42-year-skywalker-saga/

 

Quote

AD: One thing that’s fairly pervasive right now is the buzz around Kelly Marie Tran’s reduced role in The Rise of Skywalker when compared to The Last Jedi. Tell me about working through her role in the final film.

 

CT: Well, first of all, J.J. and I adore Kelly Marie Tran. One of the reasons that Rose has a few less scenes than we would like her to have has to do with the difficulty of using Carrie’s footage in the way we wanted to. We wanted Rose to be the anchor at the rebel base who was with Leia. We thought we couldn’t leave Leia at the base without any of the principals who we love, so Leia and Rose were working together. As the process evolved, a few scenes we’d written with Rose and Leia turned out to not meet the standard of photorealism that we’d hoped for. Those scenes unfortunately fell out of the film. The last thing we were doing was deliberately trying to sideline Rose. We adore the character, and we adore Kelly – so much so that we anchored her with our favorite person in this galaxy, General Leia.

 

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32 minutes ago, Nick R said:

"We adore the character, and we adore Kelly – so much so that we anchored her with our favorite person in this galaxy, General Leia." 

Whom they knew they had limited footage of to work with. It's a proper lame excuse, and I actually like the film. 

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Yeah, that’s just bullshit. I’m not sure she even had a single scene with Leia. Given that everyone who did was acting against a ping pong ball on a stick, they could easily have swapped her in for somebody else in one of the scenes that made it into the final cut. I like the film but I’m not having that corporate whitewashing.

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21 hours ago, womblingfree said:

Is it just me, or is making three supposedly linked films costing hundreds of millions of dollars without a pre-prepared story arc somewhat daft? Worked the first time I guess, but is just ridiculous when you have Marvel plotting things effortlessly over way more movies.

 

It seems utterly bonkers to me. 

 

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9 hours ago, Mugman said:

 

The Last Jedi is the only one of the sequel trilogy that wants to say or do anything. It has a theme, a through line that every single beat of the story is laser focused towards; Tearing apart the Star Wars mythology and saying that the basic idea of Goodie and a Baddie sides with Good Goodies and Bad Baddies isn't how life works and isn't particularly interesting. 

 

Now, you may not like the theme or what it means in terms of Star Wars or the way that they told it, but it's definitely focused on a thing. It's why Ren ditches the mask and denounces the "dark side", it's why Luke gives up on the ancient Jedi texts and Yoda burns them, it's why Poe learns that you can't be a badass Han Solo without consequences, it's why Finn spends all that time on Canto Blight to meet a character who's sole purpose is basically to say exactly that.

 

I think it's interesting over the trilogy if you look at a story as being Characters, Plot and Theme; TFA gave us great characters at the expense of plot (It's ANH again) and theme. TLJ gave us a meaty theme that sometimes wasted certain characters (Finn) and left the plot a little plodding (really slow space chase). RoS gives us all of this PLOT with no theme and little time for characters that isn't just them following said plot. 

 

For me Jedi is the most interesting of the three, but it's different strokes for different folks in terms of what makes a story interesting to them.  

 

I do not disagree with these themes and I do find them more interesting. The problem is that they are just themes and they only feel appropriate in a vacuum and not as a part of a trilogy.

 

The things that you describe have no connection to how the characters have been setup in the previous trilogies or in TFA.  Ren denounces the Dark Side for no justifiable reason after wanting desperately to be in it, Luke gives up on the Jedi but nothing we see justifies that based on his character arc or any other kind of storytelling (he has saved his father and seen the power of the Light Side), Poe is only trying to be Han Solo because no one is telling him what is going on and Finn spends  an entire movie sequence finding a man basically for nothing. This is not character development. It feels quite random and with no planning behind it.

 

I do not have a problem with tearing down any Star Wars mythology and forging new ideas and directions but you can't do it without a proper build up or story justification. If this had started with TFA and continued like this I would have no issue. If it had stayed true to what Abrams started I would also have no issue. My issue is that they go back and forth and you can only make sense of the what the movies are trying to do by analyzing them separately. That is the ultimate failure of this trilogy, that each movie exposes the others' weaknesses instead of reinforcing and evolving their strengths. 

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The approach for the new Star Wars stuff was to have director-led films that give each director a lot of leeway to do what they want, rather than to have producer-led films that follow an overarching plan. The Marvel films (with a few exceptions) are not director-led at all, and are generally helmed by TV directors, older journeyman directors for hire, and younger directors who can copy the house style. 
 

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either approach in itself, and I’d say it’s resulted in more interesting films on the Star Wars side, but it does mean there’s less consistency. I strongly suspect that you’d find it more difficult to recruit a-list directors to make a Star Wars film if you told them they’d have to follow the overall plan, rather than telling them they’d have a blank page (subject to the producers liking their take on it).

 

The problem with the Star Wars approach is that it’s probably too expensive to have multiple teams working on each main-sequence film, so they only have eighteen to twenty four months to do each one. 

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4 minutes ago, drmick said:

He mentions photo-realism, but didn't they previously commit to not using CGI to replace her after death?


You’d have to do a lot of work to take footage of Fisher from one film and put it in another one, in a different location with different people. Even if you weren’t just recreating her completely, there’s a lot that could go wrong given that the original footage will have been intended for a completely different context.

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9 hours ago, Mugman said:

 

The Last Jedi is the only one of the sequel trilogy that wants to say or do anything. It has a theme, a through line that every single beat of the story is laser focused towards; Tearing apart the Star Wars mythology and saying that the basic idea of Goodie and a Baddie sides with Good Goodies and Bad Baddies isn't how life works and isn't particularly interesting. 

 

Now, you may not like the theme or what it means in terms of Star Wars or the way that they told it, but it's definitely focused on a thing. It's why Ren ditches the mask and denounces the "dark side", it's why Luke gives up on the ancient Jedi texts and Yoda burns them, it's why Poe learns that you can't be a badass Han Solo without consequences, it's why Finn spends all that time on Canto Blight to meet a character who's sole purpose is basically to say exactly that.

 

I think it's interesting over the trilogy if you look at a story as being Characters, Plot and Theme; TFA gave us great characters at the expense of plot (It's ANH again) and theme. TLJ gave us a meaty theme that sometimes wasted certain characters (Finn) and left the plot a little plodding (really slow space chase). RoS gives us all of this PLOT with no theme and little time for characters that isn't just them following said plot. 

 

For me Jedi is the most interesting of the three, but it's different strokes for different folks in terms of what makes a story interesting to them.  


I don’t disagree with any of this. Going back to TLJ shortly before going to see RoS, knowing that it didn’t really pick up any of the plot threads I’d originally hoped it would, I enjoyed it much more. There’s definitely a case to be made for it being the strongest of the new trilogy as a stand-alone film.

 

The trouble is, it wasn’t a stand-alone film, it was the middle of a trilogy. And in that respect, it’s pretty much a disaster. It deliberately shuts down almost everything TFA set up, and doesn’t really provide anything in its place. If you’re going to make a film as part of the main Star Wars canon that declares “the Star Wars mythology... isn't how life works and isn't particularly interesting”, you better make something absolutely astonishing to go in its place, and TLJ doesn’t.

 

It’s a bit like employing a builder to add an extension to your house, only to come back from holiday to find they decided the house wasn’t up to much, so they knocked it down with all your stuff still inside. They might have a point, but you still don’t have anywhere to sleep. 
 

I guess this analogy makes RoS a tent in the back garden, populated by a family still having to wear their holiday clothes in the middle of Winter.

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Saw it for the second time and I like the first half a lot more than the second. It follows Abrams' career in that he's good at setting things up but not finishing them off satisfactorily.

 

It was noticeable that all the main characters had arcs in TLJ. You may not like where they went but it added substance to the action.

 

Apart from Rey not one character moved on or developed in this.

 

Everything felt undercooked, rushed and underdeveloped. 

 

Still, I really enjoyed the spectacle, look and cinematography of a lot of it.

 

The bits with Leia felt very awkward. We keep hearing about how powerful and inspirational she is but she did very little in the entire series. Even in the original trilogy she was the token fairytale princess who was there to be rescued (ANH and RotJ). In this trilogy she was too old (or dead) to do anything but spout calendar philosophy.

 

I fell asleep at the same bit. 

Spoiler

Where Rey takes the skimmer and sails towards Excrement, or the Death Star or whatever it was. Woke up after the, presumably, fighty bit with Ren.

 

I wanted Finn to give Rose a cuddle, or at least put a hand on her shoulder. I imagine they fell out over who does the washing up.

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