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Jug McKenzie

Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)

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I saw this again and actually enjoyed it a lot more on second viewing. It’s still a flawed, messy, three-movie-plots-in-one film - but the performances are ALL great - and really carry a lot of the film further than they realistically should. None of it makes sense or has any logic but alot of the things I liked about TFA were to do with the cast, and that’s also true here.  I would happily watch another film of Rey, Finn and Poe having adventures and stuff as they are so damn entertaining to watch. Sadly that time has passed and it only entrenches my view of TLJ being a massive waste  - mainly because of the way it treated Finn and Poe’s characters.

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 It's a bit like how, when the creators of Superman sat down that first day and made a character who is utterly invincible apart from exposure to Kryptonite.  It's fine for a character, but where's the longevity? How do you make a sequel to Superman, let alone the 7 or so they ended up making, when the main character is utterly invincible? You end up with Man of Steel, a 3 hour epic of two invincible characters punching each other.

 

No kryptonite in OG Superman (it came from a radio adaptation a few years later). As for 'where's the longevity', I'd suggest that over 80 years of stories suggests there's some mileage in him, even if Snyder doesn't understand the concept one little bit.

 

(ALL! STAR! SUPERMAN!)

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Loved this movie. I think Kylo Ren is my favourite Star Wars character ever, by extension Adam Driver in my opinion is the best actor to ever grace a Star Wars movie. I think it wrapped up all the movies nicely. 

 

I’ve enjoyed all the Disney Star Wars. I’m hoping that any future movies move away from the Skywalker arch or anything directly related to the original trilogy, I want to see something brand new in this universe.

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47 minutes ago, Peter St John said:

 

No kryptonite in OG Superman (it came from a radio adaptation a few years later). As for 'where's the longevity', I'd suggest that over 80 years of stories suggests there's some mileage in him, even if Snyder doesn't understand the concept one little bit.

 

(ALL! STAR! SUPERMAN!)

 

Very true about Superman, there's plenty of mileage there. And while Snyder really stank the place out, he did understand the concept of Superman in as far as his real weakness is the people he is close to, and his love of humanity in general. That's why Batman's secret "weapon" against the resurrected Supes in Justice League was Lois Lane.

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32 minutes ago, dumpster said:

 

On that basis, watch Man of Steel (£1.50 on Bluray at CEX).  Watch Avengers Assemble. Watch Spiderman, or most of the Marvel Universe films.  Then watch Rise of Skywalker.  It's fucking brilliant and it's in a different league to those other farmed out, money hungry sequels.  Daisy Ridley is exceptional.  The Emperor is fucking great.  The fight with the waves.  Kylie-Ren - that face! That evil character.  It's a brilliant film, beautifully made, great fun to watch.  I don't really care that Lando is in it, whether Luke catches a light sabre or not.  It's a brilliant example of how a high budget CGI fest should be done.  It's a brilliant, brilliant film where by this stage it should be a weary use of the name like Man of Steel or Avengers was.  It might be 2 hours of fights and explosions but it's no Die Hard 5 - it's a brilliant 2 hours of fights and explosions and I loved every minute.  There are still only three Star Wars films, but Rise of Skywalker was the most enjoyable cinema experience of the year, and just because it has plot holes and contradicts elements of the original movies doesn't mean anyone raped my childhood.  There are only three Star Wars films. They were great.  Today , I'm a 45 year old man and I thought Rise of Skywalker was a great movie.

 

Though you are mocking nerdy star wars fans, I couldn't help thinking your post read in the same feverish voice.

 

I think most people who complained about the movie (in here anyway) aren't doing so because they think there childhood has been raped. People have grown past that, they don't like the film because of the frenetic editing, and the awkward plot.

 

I'm not trying to argue you out of your own experience, and more power too you if you had a great time watching it.

 

There is a weird thing with Star Wars movies where it is either brilliant or terrible nothing in between.

 

As a film fan, do you *really* think its brilliant? Even within the realm of sell out sequels there are movies that deliver action and spectical AND a plot. Spiderman into the Spiderverse shows that you can do something original and fantastic in a well worn story.

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About that Lando bit at the end

 

Spoiler

It didn't make the movie in the end, but the Visual Dictionary book says that in the period of peace, Lando started a family. But his infant daughter disappeared. They later discovered the First Order was responsible. And we know from the movie that Jannah was abducted by the First Order.

 

This was actually the first thing to cross my mind as a possibility rather than what all you dirty-minded bastards were thinking ;)

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

The film starts with the clumsy revelation that The Emperor has begun podcasting. But we don't ever actually get to hear it?

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2 hours ago, JohnC said:

About that

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Was I the only person who saw two transports on the ground before one was destroyed, so he was obviously on the other one?

 


And not just that

 

Spoiler

I mean did anyone watching the film really think chewie was going out cuffed and imprisoned? If any film maker ever had the audacity to kill chewie (and they’d better not), he’s going out in a blaze of glory unseen since the holdo manoeuvre. 

 

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2 hours ago, JohnC said:

About that Lando bit at the end

 

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It didn't make the movie in the end, but the Visual Dictionary book says that in the period of peace, Lando started a family. But his infant daughter disappeared. They later discovered the First Order was responsible. And we know from the movie that Jannah was abducted by the First Order.

 

This was actually the first thing to cross my mind as a possibility rather than what all you dirty-minded bastards were thinking ;)

 

The first thing that crossed my mind was that the next film would be Star Wars meets Oldboy. :wacko:

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3 hours ago, Don Rosco said:


And not just that

 

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I mean did anyone watching the film really think chewie was going out cuffed and imprisoned? If any film maker ever had the audacity to kill chewie (and they’d better not), he’s going out in a blaze of glory unseen since the holdo manoeuvre. 

 

Spoiler

This was also spoiled in the trailers as we see a scene of Lando and Chewie in the cockpit of the Falcon (which obviously occurs much later on in the film). Although I knew he wasn't dead I felt that the shock and upset we see in Rey was still played convincingly enough by Daisy Ridley that I did a bit of a double take for a minute. Hell, Chewie was the best thing about this whole movie I thought.

 

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This was reasonably good, but it feels like two films jammed into one.

 

Spoiler

The first hour shows hints of a decent middle part to the trilogy which could have explored Rey's training and struggle with controlling her power, Po's dodgy past & his relationship with Finn, some amusingly camp evil in the Ren/Hux/Pryde power dynamic and an eventual Palpatine reveal, which then might've given them more space to wrap things up in the third part.  There were some good moments and set pieces but it felt rushed and nothing really has any sort of weight to it as a result, you're just immediately on to the next bit to progress the story as quickly as possible.  I had a past I'm not proud of, here's two scenes with someone from it, I'm a rebel now but don't worry about why.  I'm the spy, here's one line about the reason, I'm dead now. I'm furry, I'm dead, no I'm not.

 

Overall I'm just a bit sad about how this trilogy has turned out.  We saw glimpses of what a predictable but fun space adventure trilogy owing loads to the original films could have been, and glimpses of the sort of really interesting story Rian Johnson could have told with his own trilogy not shackled to the Skywalker bobbins, but we'll never see either.

 

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5 hours ago, dumpster said:

 

You see this is the point, right there. I loved Star Wars when I was 8 years old and loved Empire and Jedi as I got older.  And you know what that makes me?  That's right, I'm a 45 year old man.  I'm not a Sith fan, a clones fan - I'm a film fan.  

 

So why am I not a fan of the Sith, the Rebels, the X-Wing?  Because of George Lucas.  He created the three great films from my childhood, he invented the force, the rebelleion, the X Wing, the Sith.  He made a cohesive narrative that made sense, created a world we hadn't seen before.  He threw in dialogue like "I was going to Toshi Station to pick up some power convertors" or "It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs" without ever explaining what the Kessel Run actually was, or showing us what Toshi station looked like.  This use of language created the illusion of a world outside the movie.  We didn't know what the Kessel Run was, but we knew Han was boasting and we knew ObiWan wasn't impressed by it. That's all that was needed.  The three films were great, and I loved them.

 

But - George didn't know what the Kessel Ru was either, and never anticipated that one day there would be a film that shows it.

 

When the prequels came along, George Lucas knew there was no way he could make these films and keep everyone happy.  If you watch the movie "The People Vs George Lucas" you can see these beardy fans saying shit like "George Lucas raped my childhood" because the prequels were not great movies. I mean, who speaks like that?  George Lucas didn't just make a bad movie, he "raped your childhood".  I mean, calm the fuck down, won't you?

 

Because George realised that the Star Wars universe wasn't as big as people thought it would be.  It needed new ideas. He had created a world with the right amount of content for three movies.  He may have claimed to have a nine movie arc in his head, but did he really?   It's a bit like how, when the creators of Superman sat down that first day and made a character who is utterly invincible apart from exposure to Kryptonite.  It's fine for a character, but where's the longevity? How do you make a sequel to Superman, let alone the 7 or so they ended up making, when the main character is utterly invincible? You end up with Man of Steel, a 3 hour epic of two invincible characters punching each other. 

 

So for the prequels, George tried to elaborate on the story he'd made before and came up with the idea of Midichlorians, a thing that you are born with, has a numerical value that can be read with the appropriate equipment and proves if the force is with you or not, and that's the point where you realise that none of the prequels were needed, George himself is making it up as he goes along, and totally contradicting the existing movies because he has nowhere to go. These films are not NEEDED.  There are three Star Wars films.  George agrees, he has created a world with too many plot holes and limitations and he sells it to Disney for billions of pounds.  He knows, we all know, that there are THREE Star Wars films, they were great, they were part of our childhood, and all those bearded, black-T-Shirt wearing, 45 year old men that take a light sabre to the Cinema and wave it about during the film need to fuck right off.  Star Wars was great when we were kids and that is now over.  

 

But, Disney know that there's still a market.  These people will eagerly anticipate the new Star Wars film for a year, then they will go and see it and hate every minute, then eagerly anticipate the next one like a battered wife who thinks her husband is a decent guy at heart and can change. Disney make more films.  They write new stories.  And that's absolutely fine by me, because they are not aimed at me, and I know these are Disney movies, fan service, action films with the Star Wars name.  But they are just more movies - like Jaws 2, 3 and 4. Like Psycho 2, 3, 4, 5, the Bates Motel VHS Spin off, the Bates Motel Netflix Series...  These films are not Superman - they are Man of Steel.

 

On that basis, watch Man of Steel (£1.50 on Bluray at CEX).  Watch Avengers Assemble. Watch Spiderman, or most of the Marvel Universe films.  Then watch Rise of Skywalker.  It's fucking brilliant and it's in a different league to those other farmed out, money hungry sequels.  Daisy Ridley is exceptional.  The Emperor is fucking great.  The fight with the waves.  Kylie-Ren - that face! That evil character.  It's a brilliant film, beautifully made, great fun to watch.  I don't really care that Lando is in it, whether Luke catches a light sabre or not.  It's a brilliant example of how a high budget CGI fest should be done.  It's a brilliant, brilliant film where by this stage it should be a weary use of the name like Man of Steel or Avengers was.  It might be 2 hours of fights and explosions but it's no Die Hard 5 - it's a brilliant 2 hours of fights and explosions and I loved every minute.  There are still only three Star Wars films, but Rise of Skywalker was the most enjoyable cinema experience of the year, and just because it has plot holes and contradicts elements of the original movies doesn't mean anyone raped my childhood.  There are only three Star Wars films. They were great.  Today , I'm a 45 year old man and I thought Rise of Skywalker was a great movie.

 

The sarcasm fails when it is in the same post as non-sarcastic content! Needs split into two posts for maximum effect.

 

Count me me among those who saw two transports on the ground too. That whole sequence between escaping the tunnels and the crashing of the transport was almost as stupid as the dagger.

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Saw this again. I do like how it properly sets up it sets up the stuff it's going to use later on to resolve plot threads. Loads of films don't bother. 

 

But mostly I was struck my Palaptine's old plan vs his new plan

 

Spoiler

Old plan: Manipulate self into a position of political power in an existing galactic enity, use power to cause galactic government to fully militarise, then turn that power on itself to become an empire. I mean its pretty good and plausible as these things go. Logistics are already sorted. 

 

New plan: build a load of ships in the middle of nowhere with ??? resources and ??? resupply lines over 30? 50? years and shit no one will notice. 

 

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Sooooo it’s vague, but a question that has implications....

 

Spoiler

.....Why does palpatine look like Darth Sidous (pre windu melting) and not the emperor from ROTJ? None of that facial deformation stuff...

 

Are they suppose to be different people?

 

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56 minutes ago, kensei said:

Saw this again. I do like how it properly sets up it sets up the stuff it's going to use later on to resolve plot threads. Loads of films don't bother. 

 

But mostly I was struck my Palaptine's old plan vs his new plan

 

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Old plan: Manipulate self into a position of political power in an existing galactic enity, use power to cause galactic government to fully militarise, then turn that power on itself to become an empire. I mean its pretty good and plausible as these things go. Logistics are already sorted. 

 

New plan: build a load of ships in the middle of nowhere with ??? resources and ??? resupply lines over 30? 50? years and shit no one will notice. 

 

 

To be fair

he started building the clone army way before he was elected chancellor so his penchant for secret armies goes way back. 



 

I genuinely don't know what his plan with Rey was, he wanted her to kill him as his force spirit would join her, but she had to be angry then she did it?

 

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Except he didn't. We all assumed that Sifo-Dyas was a rubbish Mr. Snrub style pseudonym. But nope apparently he was real Jedi bloke who decided to order a clone army because he had a bad dream about war. He must have had one hell of an expense account.


I'm not making this up. It’s so, so dumb.

 

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54 minutes ago, kensei said:

Saw this again. I do like how it properly sets up it sets up the stuff it's going to use later on to resolve plot threads. Loads of films don't bother. 

 

But mostly I was struck my Palaptine's old plan vs his new plan

 

  Hide contents

Old plan: Manipulate self into a position of political power in an existing galactic enity, use power to cause galactic government to fully militarise, then turn that power on itself to become an empire. I mean its pretty good and plausible as these things go. Logistics are already sorted. 

 

New plan: build a load of ships in the middle of nowhere with ??? resources and ??? resupply lines over 30? 50? years and shit no one will notice. 

 


Indeed. Like, that was the whole reason the Sith ‘vanished’ for a thousand years In the first place. They finally understood that conquering the galaxy as an invading force was doomed to fail, hence the Grand Plan to gather wealth, power and influence and corrupt it from within. And it was a great plan, it worked! He wiped out the Jedi and achieved near total dominance over the entire galaxy for an entire generation! And from what little the ST tells us of the New Republic, it wouldn’t be too difficult to gradually manipulate and control those dopes either.
 

But no, OG Sith Plan A will totally work this time where it failed dozens of other ones.

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I really enjoyed the hell out of this film. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a film with such relentless pace, it never let up for two hours and twenty minutes. But I thought that worked really well after the slower, more thoughtful approach that TLJ took. 
 

It seemed to do a pretty good job of threading the needle between the hate nerds who didn’t like TLJ and the SJW woke virtue signallers who did. My heart sank a bit when 

Spoiler

Rey turned out to be Palpatine’s granddaughter, although I did laugh when Kylo Ren said “I was telling the truth when I said your parents were nobodies”, as he presumably meant ‘nobody’ in the less common usage of ‘the most important people in the universe’. 
 

But I thought they sensibly left it a bit vague as to what they meant by ‘granddaughter’. It’s presumably not literally his granddaughter, as Rey’s parents looked like they were in their thirties, which would mean that the Emperor fucked someone around the time of Return of the Jedi and got them pregnant, which clearly didn’t happen. So I took it to mean that she was some kind of vessel for Palpatine rather than his literal child, like she’d been found as a potential host rather than that Palpatine had a little baby with a lady - which is consistent with TLJ, and preserves what I liked about it.

 

I loved Luke catching the lightsaber. And I thought Palpatine’s speech to Rey about striking him down very deliberately used the same language and format as Snoke’s speech to Kylo Ren about striking down his enemy, which was a neat reference, and nicely built on that scene from TLJ (although I do think the bolder choice in the RoS scene would be to have Rey commit seppuku at that point, as that was the one thing Palpatine wouldn’t have wanted her to do, and fit the dialogue quite neatly. 


But that aside, it was pretty great. Visually stunning, full of action, some great character moments, and was very funny in places. It got a bit cheesy at the end 

Spoiler

with Lando turning up with every space ship in the flipping universe, which I struggle to believe that he could have recruited in the time he had.


But I’d hardly have a go at Return of the Jedi for being a bit cheesy at the end, so I’m happy to tuck into some delicious cheese at the end of this trilogy. 

 

one thing I really did like was the way that it gave the universe a real sense of age and depth. The Sith planet in particular gave off a real sense of being incredibly ancient and the product of a nearly-incomprehensibly alien species. I love the idea of ancient technology, and they absolutely nailed that here. 
 

Some random observations:

 

- John Boyega seems to be on the Lando diet

 

-Lando seems to be on the Luke Skywalker diet. 
 

Spoiler

it was great to see some force ghost action, but Luke’s hair looked awful. I can understand it looking like he washes it in sea-froth when he lived on Achto, but a ghost would surely have lovely hair. I was surprised that Ben Solo didn’t turn up at the end as well. 

 

-Leia was well-done, although all her dialogue was noticeably a bit non-specific. 

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5 hours ago, JohnC said:

About that Lando bit at the end

 

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It didn't make the movie in the end, but the Visual Dictionary book says that in the period of peace, Lando started a family. But his infant daughter disappeared. They later discovered the First Order was responsible. And we know from the movie that Jannah was abducted by the First Order.

 

This was actually the first thing to cross my mind as a possibility rather than what all you dirty-minded bastards were thinking ;)

 


What he said still doesn’t make any sense in that context unless he goes around assuming every black, female stormtrooper is his daughter. 

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I thought the Leia scenes were really unnerving, I just couldn't forget that they were working backwards from unused Carrie Fisher footage from the previous films, and nobody was acting opposite her.  The way they built dialogue around clips they had left over from when she was alive was just a bit unsettling, particularly the 'do me a favour and be optimistic' bit.

 

Every one of her scenes reminded me of the South Park episode they made just after Isaac Hayes quit in a scientologist huff

 

 

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Just back from seeing it . 65/100. Some good bits but all over the place in terms of pacing . Son didn’t like it at all . 
They did fuck it up though . Either go with Johnson or Abrams . The second film feels so out of place now . 

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48 minutes ago, K said:

It seemed to do a pretty good job of threading the needle between the hate nerds who didn’t like TLJ and the SJW woke virtue signallers who did. My heart sank a bit when 

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Rey turned out to be Palpatine’s granddaughter, although I did laugh when Kylo Ren said “I was telling the truth when I said your parents were nobodies”, as he presumably meant ‘nobody’ in the less common usage of ‘the most important people in the universe’. 

 

Spoiler

I thought I'd be really annoyed if they went back on Rey's parents being nobodies, but rewatching TLJ last week I realised that Kylo wasn't saying he knew for a fact who they were, he said that he knew the 'truth that she had always known'. His connection with her had let him know her deepest fears - that she had been abandoned and her parents had simply sold her for cash.

 

I took Kylo's reaffirmation that they were nobodies in this film to be part of his belief that to be someone you have to realise the full extent of potential - Rey's parents hid their powers and lived as nobodies.

 

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Palpatine 

 

Spoiler

Why is everyone having a problem with him having sex? I mean, yes, the image is terrifying, but that creepy fucker clearly had a dark side sex dungeon. 

 

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