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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)

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20 hours ago, Boothjan said:

Had the day to think about exactly why it appealed to me, so here are my thoughts.

 

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I liked the return of Palpatine though TBH - the final battle was immense and as a fan of the new novels, it tied some loose ends up very well (The Aftermath trilogy for example). That also meant I was absolutely gutted when Snap died :(

 

But the main thing for me is that it really did feel like a Star Wars movie. The sets, the sabers, the space battles - rip roaring good fun.

 

Spoiler

Oh god. I've been reading the Aftermath trilogy and am halfway through Empire's End but I've only just this second twigged who Snap actually is! Your post is the only reason I've put 2 and 2 together. Oh balls, I think if I had known that before seeing the film it would have made that scene a lot more impactful. Whereas I actually didn't really care that he died at the time as I was just like "oh that guy from Heroes who has had 3 lines the whole trilogy". Now I'm going to read the final half of Empire's End rather differently. 

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3 hours ago, Pob said:

I was going to ask @Darren and others who’ve read the new EU stuff: does this shit all over it, or does it all match up? Following TLJ must’ve been hard enough for the writers, let alone all the expanded backstory in the books and comics. 

 

A bit of both. At times I found myself getting irritated where it contradicted things from the books, but then other things matched up, and I'm sure the things that didn't will be explained away eventually.

 

Things that are different in the books:

 

Spoiler

Palps didn't create Snoke. Before he died, Palpatine felt a huge, powerful dark presence in the force, outside the known galaxy. His grand plan for what to do in the event of his death, which was carried out by the Empire in the Aftermath trilogy, was basically to send his fanatical loyalists on a quest to hook up with whatever that presence is, after destroying the rest of the Imperial war machine, leaving the galaxy ripe for re-conquering by that mysterious presence who is confirmed in The Last Jedi novel to be Snoke. So for Palpatine to now claim he created Snoke is a bit rum. Possible explanation: Palps created Snoke's body and sent it to be inhabited by the dark presence which was previously incorporeal.

 

Poe wasn't a spice smuggler. Poe's parents both fought in the Battle of Endor, then retired after the war and moved to Yavin where Poe was born and brought up. He joined the New Republic navy before being headhunted by Leia to join her secret Resistance group on the basis that she already knew he was from good Rebel stock. So he's been a military pilot his whole adult life. Possible explanation: One of his missions involved him going undercover as a smuggler. Or it was during his gap year.

 

Leia never trained as a Jedi. In fact lots of the books touch on the fact that Luke tried to persuade her to train but she never did, from a combination of not feeling like her powers were strong enough, and fear that she might take after Dad Vader if it turned out they were. Possible explanation: a heavy spice addiction in the decade or so after the war left her both physically and mentally frail, to the point that she simply forgot it ever happened, and then went round telling everybody she had never trained with Luke, until people gave up arguing with her about it.

 

Having said that I've now read @Boothjan's explanation above, and I'm not sure I agree with it.

 

Spoiler

I hadn't considered the possibility that the Sith/Final Order fleet was what became of the remnant sent out in Aftermath. Up to now everything has indicated that that's what the First Order was, not least because of the presence of Hux and Snoke (I won't go into why but it's covered in Aftermath and the TLJ novel). So I spent the film assuming that the Sith fleet was something completely separate, that was as much of a surprise to the First Order as it was everyone else. I suppose it's possible that they were both parts of the same mega-fleet orchestrated by Palpatine, with the First Order being the first wave to get the galaxy on its knees ready for Palp's triumphant return, but if so why would Kylo need to find the macguffin to find his way to where Palps was? Unless Palps kept the Sith fleet secret from them all for some reason (with the possible exception of Snoke who could have been in on the master plan). It just didn't hang together right for me, and I'm surprised to be in the position where knowing more of the extended canon means the film makes less sense.

 

It's possible that the Emperor's return was in the plan all along - it would certainly explain why the Aftermath books focus so much on his acolytes carrying out his quite weird posthumous orders, including gathering specific things and people together to send off into the great unknown in search of that mysterious dark presence - but then Ryan Johnson just ignored it when making The Last Jedi. Now I'm one of TLJ's biggest fans and defenders but if that's the case then the story group and producers dropped the ball, because it means that even if there was an overall arc planned out it still ended up disjointed and contradictory.

 

None of that spoils any of the stuff I loved in the film, but I think my opinion is solidifying on it (and the trilogy overall) being good but a missed opportunity to be amazing.

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I loved it but since coming out, as predicted, I'm reading all these other opinions which is making me question myself when I say it's the best of the three. My simple reasons for this is;

 

1) In TheLastJedi I was disappointed in the Snoke story, I was also bored during the long winded casino scene. I also didn't like the weird Leia "She's dead! lol not really!" part which seemed really unfitting.

2) I didnt like the bit in Force Awakens where they have some kind of battle with a big worm or something? Felt like a forced 'videogame' moment that seemed out of place.

3) Rise for me however didn't have ANY dull moments, it's a far more snappier film that constantly moves along. The 'big' moments are satisfying too and not anti-climatic.

 

Some spoiler stuff;

 

Spoiler

 

- There was a huge cheer when ben/rey kissed. Was talking to my GF after and yeah we were both bewildered by this. We didn't know of any love tension between the two at all, they almost seemed more like sister/brother than anything.

 

- Going into this I saw a hint of a spoiler headline which was "First gay kiss in Star Wars!" :facepalm: This really messed with my viewing as I presumed it was going to be Poe/Finn as I've heard how that is a 'thing' with loads of fan art etc. So I was constantly accessing their chemistry and trying to work out if it made sense. Then at the end it's like this 1 second moment in the background from some 'extras' :facepalm: 

 

 

and people wonder why people like us go on release day, sure it's a pain but give it a few days and all the spoilers will be widely spread. Apart from that ONE thing however I managed to go in spoiler free.

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5 minutes ago, Darren said:

Or it was during his gap year.

 

Luke Skywalker was forced to go on a gap year by his uncle.

 

He spent it blowing up the Death Star.

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I managed to remember my old force.net log-in details. That account is over 18 years old. I can track down records of me speculating about the prequels that are old enough to vote.

 

This is a mess of a movie and while it doesn’t completely wipe away the stain that was Last Jedi, it at least throws a rug over it.

 

I picture JJ overseeing the final edit come together as Captain Jacks intro in the first pirates movie. It’s a sinking ship but he brings it in with style and made me happy.

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1 hour ago, Capwn said:

 

 

Some spoiler stuff;

 

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- There was a huge cheer when ben/rey kissed. Was talking to my GF after and yeah we were both bewildered by this. We didn't know of any love tension between the two at all, they almost seemed more like sister/brother than anything.

 

 

 

Yeah, I totally agree with this.

 

Spoiler

It was very odd, and felt a little creepy. Like they were brother and sister, or cousins. Mind you, it's not like Star Wars isn’t afraid to venture into pseudo-incest territory  :sherlock:

 

This was all totally overshadowed by Lando's super creepy exchange with the ex-Stormtrooper girl at the end, but I did think Billy Dee did a fine job of reviving his character.

 

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I was surprised how little the comedy worked in this. I saw it in a packed screen, but it was stoney silence all the way through.

 

The only joke that really landed was

 

He's my oldest friend.

 

This was stark contrast to seeing TFA on opening night when the audience were roaring with laughter all the way through.

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See, I thought they landed pretty much all of the funny moments. Humour is subjective, though. :)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Darren said:

think my opinion is solidifying on it (and the trilogy overall) being good but a missed opportunity to be amazing.

This is how I feel. I like all three films, I feel TFA overall is the best of them, with both TLJ and TRoS having brilliant moments up there with the best of TFA, but as a whole trilogy it doesn't quite fit together properly. 

 

Now, I'm not entirely sure all the blame can be put on Rian Johnson for this; everything I dislike about The Last Jedi reeks of Disney. It's like a massive wedge of Disney cheese (Canto Bight, the kids, Rose's godawful almost-out-of-key theme) shoehorned in ... by Disney execs? I still wonder if Disney producers, feeling they could do whatever they wanted after TFA, 'meddled' in the production. I have no basis of any fact for that whatsoever, it's pure supposition on my part.

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12 hours ago, elmo said:

 

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I thought that was as much a reference to Ben as it was to Rey. [\spoiler]

 

The title of a movie wouldn't be that obscure.

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1 hour ago, makkuwata said:

This is a mess of a movie and while it doesn’t completely wipe away the stain that was Last Jedi, it at least throws a rug over it.

 

I picture JJ overseeing the final edit come together as Captain Jacks intro in the first pirates movie. It’s a sinking ship but he brings it in with style and made me happy.

 

I think JJ has been paid alot of money - to put his name to a picture that was edited by Disney Execs. It's so messy (by anyones standards) JJ must be feeling like a right (rich) plum.

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11 hours ago, NickC said:

At one point when Rey got to the

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fallen Death Star's throne room to find her battling herself with a red lightsaber, I honestly thought JJ was saying that she had an evil twin all along, and that was the reason she and Ben kept having visions of Rey as an all powerful sith.

 

:facepalm:

 

Also, at the end I thought

  Reveal hidden contents

Lando's

final line to the young rebel sounded pretty creepy :(

 

Lando gonna Lando :D

 

EDIT: He's also still perving on Leia despite him being in his 80s and her being dead.

 

I'm sure my Gran still wouldn't kick him out the bed either. And she's dead too.

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1 hour ago, Bazjam said:

I was surprised how little the comedy worked in this. I saw it in a packed screen, but it was stoney silence all the way through.

 

The only joke that really landed was

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

He's my oldest friend.

 

 

This was stark contrast to seeing TFA on opening night when the audience were roaring with laughter all the way through.

 

That was the only one that got a big laugh at my screening as well. I remember TFA got plenty too, as well as collective gasps and exclamations (to be fair, most of those were down to collective joy at seeing Han, Chewie and other beloved characters and ships back in action for the first time in decades). Saw both at the same screen and both at midnight.

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33 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

 

I think JJ has been paid alot of money - to put his name to a picture that was edited by Disney Execs. It's so messy (by anyones standards) JJ must be feeling like a right (rich) plum.


It’s a JJ film.

 

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I've now seen this film twice. Once yesterday at the earliest opportunity I could, as I hate having films spoiled for me and have avoided any trailers or info about this until now. On occasion, that has meant I've been in the cinema watching other films, been presented with a trailer for this and then stuck my fingers in my ears to avoid any sound. Unfortunately, modern cinemas being what they are, that doesn't work as the sound is so loud so I had to cup my ears and hum. This never went unnoticed. 

 

And now I've seen it again this morning with my wife "for the first time". The only time I was almost rumbled was when I wasn't bothered about 

Spoiler

Chewy's "death"

 

It's pretty easy to be critical about the film, it's all over the place and not only from a galaxy-hopping POV. But, you know what? I got to say goodbye to some much-loved characters, from the new and old films. I think the character arcs of the main protagonists were decent and it was probably Ridley and Driver's best acting performance of the trilogy. And there was a tear in the eye at a couple of points. The trilogy was never going to come close to the heights of the Original trilogy but it certainly over the awful memories of the prequels. 

 

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I walked out of a cinema once when the trailer for this came on, and another time I made sure I had isolating earbuds in and ready to go to mask the sound. I remember a trailer for TLJ when I had my fingers in my ears and heard "It's time for the Jedi to end". Raging I was. 

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9 minutes ago, Don Rosco said:

I walked out of a cinema once when the trailer for this came on, and another time I made sure I had isolating earbuds in and ready to go to mask the sound. I remember a trailer for TLJ when I had my fingers in my ears and heard "It's time for the Jedi to end". Raging I was. 

 

Cineplex in Canada are terrible for this, last night I got  a Rise featurette, trailer, adverts the lot! Really annoying because I had managed to avoid the most recent media. So as usual I just look straight down into my phone, thinking 'WTF?!' Whilst I'm at it, I ordered tickets months ago for a 2D showing and when I turned up it was the smallest of the 12 rooms they have. There were no good seats so I just exchanged tickets for another showing, in 3D, and surprise it's in the biggest room. They are SUPER sleazy, they typically will do 1 or at most 2 2D showings a day I think just to comply to some kind of law (because not all people can experience 3D) so they stick it in the smallest room to make sure most people are paying the extra money for the 3D...

 

...and their 3D is horrible. Without a question it darkens the screen and during any action everything looks like a miniature set right in front of your eyes, it's just not as good as 2D. This along with their featurettes/trailers on the movie you're actually watching, they have single handily ruined the cinema experience for me. I hate this cinema SO MUCH, it needs to get taken over ASAP.

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The 3D at the laser IMAX was absolutely the best 3D I’ve ever experienced - super-bright, pin-sharp, no cross-talk, and no blurriness at all. I’d have still preferred to see it in 2D, but as 3D goes it was A1.

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Really enjoyed the movie.  It's not perfect, but overall it's a fun, exciting and emotional end to the saga, and perfectly wraps up the brilliant sequel trilogy.

 

I'm very confused by people peddling the narrative that this in some way shows Episode 8 and Rian Johnson the middle finger.  To me it was the complete opposite - it embraced that movie wholeheartedly, leaning on it for its most imporant plot devices, calling back to it numerous times.  The Luke line about respecting the lightsaber was funny on the meta-level, but i don't see that as a criticsm of the film but an in-universe criticism of his own past behaviour.  It's like people totally ignore the resolution of TLJ and just focus on where he was when it began...

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Well it basically re ersed every major decision TLJ made. It was nice about it, but that's what it did. 

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Just back from seeing it with the kids. It’s great. 
Youngest was a bit scared during the 

Spoiler

Battle in the black stone fortress place 

Deffo want to see it again soon 

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Spoiler

That Sith chat dragged on so much in the middle that I fell asleep.  My wife had to prod me awake.

 

Alien Coachella was a micron better than that fucking casino.

 

That final battle in space was a fucking disaster.  None of the weight or heft or logic of Jedi.  What the fuck?  An entire fleet needs a radio mast?  But only two radio masts exist?  And the fucking ground battle on the surface of the ship?  Fuuuuuuuuck ooooffffffffff.

 

I wasn't a huge fan of the telepresence concept.  And the new Jedi powers were baffling.  I suppose this was the logic vehicle they needed once the ending had been written.

 

The light saber fights were great.  The one on Endor looked and felt exhausting for all the right reasons.

 

Nothing really had consequence.  There were flashes of brilliance from both cast and script, but it's still a mess.

 

It squeezed a few tears out me to see Mark and Carrie for the last time like this.

 

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The bit that got me was 

Spoiler

Chewie collapsing with that wail when he found out Leia had died. :(

 

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Saw it yesterday despite it being quite a challenge to get to the cinema with a broken ankle but did it! 
 

I found that I surprisingly loved it, with the assumption that this film was going to be the daft ‘kitchen sink’ film of the trilogy. Even though it can be a bit silly and yes a “hot mess” it was exceedingly entertaining. 
 

TLJ is by far the most accomplished of the sequel trilogy, but I quite liked the note that they went out on. Hooray for all this new Star Wars stuff! So much better than the prequels. 

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20 minutes ago, Sixkiller said:

I'm very confused by people peddling the narrative that this in some way shows Episode 8 and Rian Johnson the middle finger.  To me it was the complete opposite - it embraced that movie wholeheartedly, leaning on it for its most imporant plot devices, calling back to it numerous times.  The Luke line about respecting the lightsaber was funny on the meta-level, but i don't see that as a criticsm of the film but an in-universe criticism of his own past behaviour.  It's like people totally ignore the resolution of TLJ and just focus on where he was when it began...

 

The criticisms seem to be mainly about the way it walks back the broader thematic conclusions from TLJ:

 

Spoiler

TLJ: "Remember the past, but move forward: 'We are what they grow beyond.' The Force can be strong with anyone, from anywhere!"

 

TROS: "Continue to focus on all the familiar characters. The most powerful Force users can't be 'nobodies' from unexpected places, only from this special bloodline."

 

 

I've also seen an argument (less persuasive) that:

 

Spoiler

TFA and TLJ used Hux and the First Order as an allegory for neo-fascists, which is diminished by the revelation that Richard E Grant's character was part of the original Empire.

 

 

This is that critic's Star Wars ranking by the way. It's not an order you see often!

 

 

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