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Jug McKenzie

Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)

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ROTJ is my favourite one still. I can remember watching it on betamax (!) taped off the TV as a kid. Can still remember where some of the ad breaks used to be. 

These films. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. 

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We watched it last night in our film-a-week build up to TROS. For all its cheesiness in places, on the important story stuff it’s absolutely spot on. The Emperor/Vader/Luke/Leia story is brilliantly done, and very effectively and economically turns the slightly pantomime-ish villain from the previous films into a tragic character. In this (controversial opinion incoming) it’s very like The Last Jedi - lots of daft silly bits but with a really good central core (in that case Luke/Ben/Rey).

 

Despite watching it dozens of times over the years, I still noticed a few things for the first time last night:

 

- there’s a probe droid lined up with the imperials on the deck of the Death Star to meet the shuttle

- the first time we see the Emperor’s eyes is when Luke does

- one of the rebels who comes out of the bunker behind Han has his overalls undone (perhaps he’d just been for a hasty dump) and he’s the spitting image of Quincy, although I don’t think it’s actually him.

 

The ending is utterly ruined by the special edition though. All those pointless planet montages (now including Naboo too) and bloody Young Anakin looking thoroughly (and rightly) embarrassed to be sharing the screen with Old Obi Wan. And that awful pan pipes music instead of the jub jub song.

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-1 for Yub Nub as I’ve always hated that Anakin was there in any ghostly form.

Systems destroyed, thousands of rebels killed, planets in thrall..  and all it takes it pushing an old man down a lift shaft and suddenly you’re welcomed back in the panoply of force ghosts. ;)

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7 hours ago, Stoppy2000 said:

ROTJ is my favourite one still. I can remember watching it on betamax (!) taped off the TV as a kid. Can still remember where some of the ad breaks used to be. 

These films. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. 

As a child I had a rare edition of Empire taped off the TV, at the end when it pans away from the medical freighter it cuts to Allo Allo :D

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On 29/11/2019 at 12:06, SpagMasterSwift said:

This is wonderful.

 

 


I like these films, but still have no idea who the First Order are, where they came from, how they seemingly took over from the Empire and what the direct connection to the OT is apart from the old actors??

 

Please don’t make me wait 40 years to have it explained in a comic. I’ll be 86.

 

 

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2 hours ago, merrychan said:

As a child I had a rare edition of Empire taped off the TV, at the end when it pans away from the medical freighter it cuts to Allo Allo :D


The first few times I watched The Shawshank Redemption it was off a VHS recording from TV. The tape had run out when my mum was recording it, so she put in another tape quick and started recording on there.

 

Spoiler

So it cut from the Warden standing in Andy’s empty cell, to Red being released. I didn’t see Andy’s escape until I bought the DVD a few years later :facepalm:

 

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You know how Boyzone retired and everyone breathed a sight of relief and were then immediately replaced by Westlife who were nigh identical, so what was the point of going through all that to start with and made getting rid of them feel like a hollow victory - that's the First Order - then Boyzone came back anyway, just like the Emperor.

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11 hours ago, Darren said:

We watched it last night in our film-a-week build up to TROS. For all its cheesiness in places, on the important story stuff it’s absolutely spot on. The Emperor/Vader/Luke/Leia story is brilliantly done, and very effectively and economically turns the slightly pantomime-ish villain from the previous films into a tragic character. In this (controversial opinion incoming) it’s very like The Last Jedi - lots of daft silly bits but with a really good central core (in that case Luke/Ben/Rey).

 

What are the parts you think are cheesy? Genuine question! Personally the only part I thought could be termed 'cheesy' would be the (original) group shot at the very end. Even as a very young child I remember thinking it was a bit daft. But that's it. What else is cheesy or silly though?

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Oh loads of it. The rancor keeper and his wobbly bottom lip. The droid torture chamber. Almost all of Harrison Ford’s performance. The ewoks doing Tarzan noises as they swing across to the walker. And so on!

 

Don't get me wrong, I love all of these cheesy moments. I laugh at them every time. And I love that Star Wars is broad enough that films as tonally different as TESB and ROTJ can fit perfectly together as consecutive episodes.

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4 hours ago, womblingfree said:


I like these films, but still have no idea who the First Order are, where they came from, how they seemingly took over from the Empire and what the direct connection to the OT is apart from the old actors??

 

Please don’t make me wait 40 years to have it explained in a comic. I’ll be 86.

 

 

 

Because it was a dreadful idea by Abrams, the writer, to reset 'rebels vs empire' but the timelines make so sense. I'm presuming he couldn't have Hux, Ken and Snoke take over the Empire as it would cheapen the victory of the original trilogy, so he just renamed it effectively and theneft us to presume a new big bad appeared with massively better technology than the Empire in about 20 years. Bit of a mess.

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8 minutes ago, Darren said:

Oh loads of it. The rancor keeper and his wobbly bottom lip. The droid torture chamber. Almost all of Harrison Ford’s performance. The ewoks doing Tarzan noises as they swing across to the walker. And so on!

 

Don't get me wrong, I love all of these cheesy moments. I laugh at them every time. And I love that Star Wars is broad enough that films as tonally different as TESB and ROTJ can fit perfectly together as consecutive episodes.

 

I thought it was Chewie that does the ‘Tarzan’

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11 minutes ago, Darren said:

Oh loads of it. The rancor keeper and his wobbly bottom lip. The droid torture chamber. Almost all of Harrison Ford’s performance. The ewoks doing Tarzan noises as they swing across to the walker. And so on!

 

Blimey!:blink2: Well hey ho it's all opinions! I'll give you Chewie's Tarzen yell, although it's so blink and you'll miss it that it's verging on acceptable for me. But I don't feel the same at all about your other examples, goodness.

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1 hour ago, Festoon said:

 

Because it was a dreadful idea by Abrams, the writer, to reset 'rebels vs empire' but the timelines make so sense. I'm presuming he couldn't have Hux, Ken and Snoke take over the Empire as it would cheapen the victory of the original trilogy, so he just renamed it effectively and theneft us to presume a new big bad appeared with massively better technology than the Empire in about 20 years. Bit of a mess.


I wish that this time round the Empire were the scrappy rebels. Using old Star Destroyers and patched-up TIE’s they’ve got hold of.


You’d still have the iconography of the classic movies, but this time they’re the desperate underdogs, using guerrilla tactics and an extremist ideology to go with it. 

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The First Order just feel so lazy, like Abrams and Kasdan forgot to do some homework set for them and had to try and bullshit on the day. The first order of business today is to tell you about the new baddies we’ve created? That’s a good question Kathleen... Erm, well, you see... Yes the baddies... Remember the Empire, well get this - now there’s another one, but their Tie Fighters, Star Destroyers and Stormtroopers look slightly different. Who leads than you say? Shit. Um, another creepy disfigured pale dude who appears as a big hologram. You’re asking what’s he’s called now? /Looks around room at various objects before settling on a pack of cigarettes Smo... I mean Snoke! Yes, Snoke, that’ll do.

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I refuse to believe that alpha male Chewie would make such a childish noise. He’s the clear victim of an Ewok disinformation campaign blaming him for their wartime frivolity.

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8 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

Because it was a dreadful idea by Abrams, the writer, to reset 'rebels vs empire' but the timelines make so sense. I'm presuming he couldn't have Hux, Ken and Snoke take over the Empire as it would cheapen the victory of the original trilogy, so he just renamed it effectively and theneft us to presume a new big bad appeared with massively better technology than the Empire in about 20 years. Bit of a mess.


It feels like a lot of what happened so far has cheapened the victory of the original trilogy, tbh. 

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13 hours ago, womblingfree said:

I like these films, but still have no idea who the First Order are, where they came from, how they seemingly took over from the Empire and what the direct connection to the OT is apart from the old actors??

 

I mean the actual explanations don't make much sense because they didn't do any plan, after the Emperor died, the Empire just blew itself up because that was the orders, then some ex-Imperials decided "hey let's go start this new thing", except it's not a new thing, the Emperor isn't dead, and they're working for the Emperor? So they could have just saved themselves some trouble by skipping all of the above.

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2 hours ago, Harsin said:

The First Order just feel so lazy, like Abrams and Kasdan forgot to do some homework set for them and had to try and bullshit on the day. The first order of business today is to tell you about the new baddies we’ve created? That’s a good question Kathleen... Erm, well, you see... Yes the baddies... Remember the Empire, well get this - now there’s another one, but their Tie Fighters, Star Destroyers and Stormtroopers look slightly different. Who leads than you say? Shit. Um, another creepy disfigured pale dude who appears as a big hologram. You’re asking what’s he’s called now? /Looks around room at various objects before settling on a pack of cigarettes Smo... I mean Snoke! Yes, Snoke, that’ll do.


Even a brief montage, or just an image, with a voiceover (or without) vaguely alluding to something relating to the rise of the First Order would have been better than nothing. Some gloves hand picking up a stormtroopers helmet or something.

 

But there was no idea and no script and so they’re just making it up as they go along. That’s no way to run a railroad, let alone a multi billion dollar franchise stretching out into infinity.

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15 hours ago, womblingfree said:


I like these films, but still have no idea who the First Order are, where they came from, how they seemingly took over from the Empire and what the direct connection to the OT is apart from the old actors??

 

Please don’t make me wait 40 years to have it explained in a comic. I’ll be 86.

 

 

No need to wait at all - it has been pretty comprehensively explained over the last 4 years using  a combination of books (the aftermath trilogy, Bloodlines) and the Battlefront 2 single player campaign.  There's very little that we don't know now about the First Order's origins.  The biggest question is how Snoke came to be in charge, as he wasn't when those who started the First Order headed off into the Unknown Regions, but even that is fairly obvious now reading between the lines of everything we know.

 

Ultimately, how they came to be was not vital to the story of the trilogy, just as how the empire came to be was not vital to the story of the OT.  But the explanations are all there, and have mostly been there for some time.

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It doesn't need a huge amount of explanation, surely? The empire were never entirely defeated after Return of the Jedi, and regrouped and reformed themselves as the First Order. Presumably this isn't exactly what happened in the various books and comics, but it's consistent with the film, and it works for me.

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I’d like to see a spinoff exploring the downfall of the empire and its metamorphosis. I’d call it Star Wars First Order: Last Orders. 

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1 hour ago, Sixkiller said:

No need to wait at all - it has been pretty comprehensively explained over the last 4 years using  a combination of books (the aftermath trilogy, Bloodlines) and the Battlefront 2 single player campaign.  There's very little that we don't know now about the First Order's origins.  The biggest question is how Snoke came to be in charge, as he wasn't when those who started the First Order headed off into the Unknown Regions, but even that is fairly obvious now reading between the lines of everything we know.

 

Ultimately, how they came to be was not vital to the story of the trilogy, just as how the empire came to be was not vital to the story of the OT.  But the explanations are all there, and have mostly been there for some time.


So I have to buy a book I’ve never heard of and play a game I don’t want. Ok.

 

The Empire vs the Rebels was the beginning of a story everyone was familiar with good vs evil so needs no background other than the baddies look bad and the goodies look good. Outside of that it’s all character development and simple plot. The new trilogy is a continuation of the story of those characters though and some cursory allusion to what is going on would have been welcome, for me at least. It’s JJ Abrams syndrome and if shoves time-travel in the new one then... :hmm: 

 

The time of JJ is almost at an end. He’s done well in resurrecting Star Wars from the corpse of the prequels,  it now is the time of Feige.

 

26 minutes ago, K said:

It doesn't need a huge amount of explanation, surely? The empire were never entirely defeated after Return of the Jedi, and regrouped and reformed themselves as the First Order. Presumably this isn't exactly what happened in the various books and comics, but it's consistent with the film, and it works for me.

 

No it doesn’t but like a said, even a single shot would have been better than nothing.

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Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts….

 

 

If you feel you need to know more read the book/play the game/see the musical....

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I think that the mistake was to start off The Force Awakens by making the First Order seem as powerful and widespread as the Empire was. (The similarity of the "Resistance" and "Rebellion" names didn't help.) With a few tweaks, TFA could have begun by presenting the First Order as just a local threat, and making clearer that it's only their mid-film surprise attack - activating Starkiller Base and destroying the Republic's capital - that turns the tide and lets them dominate.

 

I think people who've read the bridging novels said that this is essentially what happens off screen: only Leia and relatively few other people consider the First Order any sort of threat. If some of that timeline had been presented on-screen, it would have prevented some of the criticisms that the sequel trilogy's setup is just a rehash of the original three.

 

I can see why they didn't do that: after TPM, they wanted to avoid any emphasis on anything resembling "politics", so they began TFA by throwing the viewer straight into an established situation. That wouldn't have been a problem if that that "established situation" didn't so closely resemble the Empire Vs Rebels!

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