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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)


Jug McKenzie

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That's part of the fun with these films that have a lot of characters and lore, the speculation. I'm never fucking right when the films hit. But I'm not bitter, well maybe just a little with TLJ as I had a pretty fanciful plot worked out to do with those Jedi books that turned out to be way more than 12 parsecs wide of the mark.

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1 hour ago, JPL said:

@amc Or the Emperor was using Snoke as a vessel. That’s another one I’ve heard.

That's something I've sort of suspected since first seeing TLJ!

 

"I can see him turning the lightsaber to strike true. He ignites it, and KILLS HIS TRUE ENEMY!"

 

I've always considered that to be Snoke referring to "himself", and not Rey. Now, with the return of Palps, it's fairly certain in my eyes. Snoke was indeed just a vessel. 

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15 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

I  think that Palpatine will be a space ghost , Like Yoda et al. If the light side can bring people back as spirits, why not the dark side?

 

I always though it was about the lightside being in tune with the force / nature and the darkside essentially strip mining it.

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21 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Achto

 

Bless you. 

 

Re: the whole coming back as a ghost thing - I think that’s generally accepted as light side power. You’ve got that line at the end of RotS where Yoda (I think?) says he’s been having a good old chin wag with Qui Gon Jin about having mastered it. 

 

My hot take on the trailer - I didn’t really see anything that excited me, but it wasn’t offensive to mein eyes either. I sincerely hope it’s not boring, that’s almost the worst if both worlds. I liked episode VIII, apart from the baggy bit on the casino planet, so I’m hopeful for this. 

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2 hours ago, JPL said:

@amc Or the Emperor was using Snoke as a vessel. That’s another one I’ve heard.

 

Yeah, I said earlier in the thread I think this could be the case. Hes been hiding in plain sight and its the reason Snokes body is so grotesque because it was struggling with being used by the Emporers power.

 

Probably won't be the case and Snoke will just be swept under the carpet. 

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1 minute ago, Stigweard said:

 

Yeah, I said earlier in the thread I think this could be the case. Hes been hiding in plain sight and its the reason Snokes body is so grotesque because it was struggling with being used by the Emporers power.

 

Probably won't be the case and Snoke will just be swept under the carpet. 

I hope they do try and retcon in something that works. Having introduced him as the mysterious baddy in TFA, just for Rian Johnson to petulantly kill him off was absolutely mental. The complete embodiment of a character arc/plot strand that goes absolutely nowhere. It was a total kick in the balls for anyone who was looking forward to seeing what they'd do with Snoke. It'd be a nice bit of course correction if they could find a way to give his character a purpose for existing in the first two films.

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1 hour ago, JPL said:

I hope they do try and retcon in something that works. Having introduced him as the mysterious baddy in TFA, just for Rian Johnson to petulantly kill him off was absolutely mental. The complete embodiment of a character arc/plot strand that goes absolutely nowhere. It was a total kick in the balls for anyone who was looking forward to seeing what they'd do with Snoke. It'd be a nice bit of course correction if they could find a way to give his character a purpose for existing in the first two films.

Petulant?  I don't think so. TLJ has many flaws, its handling of Snoke is definitely not one of them. 

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1 hour ago, JPL said:

I hope they do try and retcon in something that works. Having introduced him as the mysterious baddy in TFA, just for Rian Johnson to petulantly kill him off was absolutely mental. The complete embodiment of a character arc/plot strand that goes absolutely nowhere. It was a total kick in the balls for anyone who was looking forward to seeing what they'd do with Snoke. It'd be a nice bit of course correction if they could find a way to give his character a purpose for existing in the first two films.

 

I was happy with Snokes killing because the character arc is about Kylo not Snoke. So maybe in a way we don't really need to know anything about Snoke because he's not important as it was a defining moment for Kylo more than anything.

 

But if the vessel theory is true, it could also have been a test from Palpatine. The moment Kylo struck down his master, he was ready to take his rightful place. Then again maybe he wasnt a vessel and Snoke was just a pasty put in place by the Emperor, he needed someone to nurture and bend Kylo to the darkside, which he couldn't do in ghost form.

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I think it’s really mental that “The Return of The Emperor” was revealed in teaser trailer. 

 

If TLJ had included that revelation near the end, it would have gone done much better with a lot of the fan base.

 

That it was revealed in trailer tells us a lot about Disney’s approach to SW. Marketing is much more important than story telling.

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3 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

That it was revealed in trailer tells us a lot about Disney’s approach to SW. Marketing is much more important than story telling.

I'd argue the Marvel movies say otherwise. 

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6 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

I  think that Palpatine will be a space ghost , Like Yoda et al. If the light side can bring people back as spirits, why not the dark side?

 

Apparent, in the old Legends / EU canon, Sith could not merger with the Living Force and become a Force-Ghost. 

With the Disney take over of course, the Canon reset.. so it could be possible. 

 

I personally quite like the idea that Snoke was essentially a puppet for Palpatine, controlled from a-far. I wouldn't be surprised if Palp's is basically a Ghost haunting or some how stuck in the wreckage of the DS2 (hopefully on Endor). Kinda like Sauron in his Mordor tower. 

 

Maybe Kylo Ren has been groomed to be the next vessel for Ghost Palpatine. 

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9 minutes ago, Thor said:

I'd argue the Marvel movies say otherwise. 

 

You know I'm an MCU fan but this is the same people who revealed sequels to films of people who are meant to have "died". I know for one seconds we shouldn't have thought they were really gone but still.

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26 minutes ago, Thor said:

Petulant?  I don't think so. TLJ has many flaws, its handling of Snoke is definitely not one of them. 

Might be the wrong word, but it felt to me like another one of JJ’s things that he didn’t like, so he got rid with no concern for anyone who might have been invested in seeing where the character went. There was zero character arc for him, which made him feel completely wasted. To me at least.

 

Making him a puppet/vessel for the Emperor would at least give his inclusion in the films a bit more of a reason for being.

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4 hours ago, amc said:

That's part of the fun with these films that have a lot of characters and lore, the speculation. I'm never fucking right when the films hit. But I'm not bitter, well maybe just a little with TLJ as I had a pretty fanciful plot worked out to do with those Jedi books that turned out to be way more than 12 parsecs wide of the mark.

It's part of the fun but also a huge part of the problem a d ultimately results in all "not my Star Wars" style shit

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1 minute ago, JPL said:

Might be the wrong word, but it felt to me like another one of JJ’s things that he didn’t like, so he got rid with no concern for anyone who might have been invested in seeing where the character went. There was zero character arc for him, which made him feel completely wasted. To me at least.

Whereas I felt that was a brilliant scene, playing the characters and the audience at the same time. But I guess we won't know until we see TROS. 

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2 hours ago, Ran said:

Force powers being shuffled into light/dark categories is fine where it makes sense in a videogame. Personally I've always hated it bleeding into the films and lore like being a Jedi is going to space Hogwarts where you learn force push in the mornings followed by double force running in the afternoons and those dirty rotters in Sitherin learn how to throw lightning and choke out people.

I prefer the feeling that the force has some mystery and is utilised and manipulated by either side in unique ways that reflects their personality and morals. It was one of the things I loved about TLJ in Luke projecting himself across the galaxy. It was new and exciting and most of all a clever use of the force showing wisdom. Not landing on the battlefield in a busted up X-Wing and using his level 20 force crush to violently smash an army to pieces because he's Luke-fucking-Skywalker, mega Jedi.

 

 

I think it makes sense for things to shuffle a bit. Like the Dark Side isn't just a way of accessing the force, but some of the powers also reflects the corruption. Being able to Force Ghost seems a nice way to express the Light Side. I'd prefer if Dark Side spiritual stuff was different in some way, like they were tied to a place or vampires other bodies. Some way for the lore to reinforce the story. 

 

I do recall reading something in around TLJ from someone official about one of the ideas being that the ultimate battle being on the spiritual plane and Luke maybe being tormented by a Dark Side ghost, so I wonder if that's the sort of direction it's going. 

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As we appear to be revisiting concept art from ‘TFA’, I wonder if we’ll get the 

Spoiler

Anakin/Vader ghost that communes with Kylo Ren. 

 

The one that is still struggling with the Light/Dark even in death and so constantly switches appearance.

 

AND! If it does appear, will it be realm or just manipulation from Palestine?

 

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2 hours ago, Popo said:

 

Re: the whole coming back as a ghost thing - I think that’s generally accepted as light side power. You’ve got that line at the end of RotS where Yoda (I think?) says he’s been having a good old chin wag with Qui Gon Jin about having mastered it. 

 

 

 

I remember an old theory back in the 90's that everyone was desperate to die in front of Luke Skywalker.

 

Die in front of Luke Skywalker? Become a cool blue ghost.

 

Die offscreen? Dead forever.

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51 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Apparent, in the old Legends / EU canon, Sith could not merger with the Living Force and become a Force-Ghost. 

With the Disney take over of course, the Canon reset.. so it could be possible. 

 

I personally quite like the idea that Snoke was essentially a puppet for Palpatine, controlled from a-far. I wouldn't be surprised if Palp's is basically a Ghost haunting or some how stuck in the wreckage of the DS2 (hopefully on Endor). Kinda like Sauron in his Mordor tower. 

 

Maybe Kylo Ren has been groomed to be the next vessel for Ghost Palpatine

Ooh I like the sound of that.

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