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Hey, sorry I missed you in the lobby last night @daifuco we will get some games in soon I'm sure.


Played Barn again last night (the Arizona in that clip). Mostly got beaten up again but I took a game this time! Also lost 15-1 to E199 Oleander. Hands down the best Oleander combos/set ups/Fred things I've ever seen. Will upload some highlights at some point, so glad I recorded it as I want to steal EVERYTHING he does.


Beat everyone else I played, which raises my hopes that I might avoid going 0 and 2 at Evo.


Also they've put out the final patch before Evo, no gameplay/balance adjustments obviously as it's last minute, but I *love* the thing they've added where it shows you how many hours your opponent has played. So many great ideas in this game that all other fighting games should borrow.

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I feel bad for TFH  not getting the public acknowledgement they deserve. I didnt knew the game existence until launch! so obviously there must be more like me.


The nice thing of going to the authorities to claim justice is that everyone else does not get splattered in shit.
We are back to the mid ages.

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It's a shame for the likes of TFH of course but I'd like to think that they'll be sympathetic to a much bigger issue and at least they've had a fair amount of benefit from just being among the intended games. I'm not really sure how anyone could've enjoyed the tournament in this context, playing a few games online is nothing in the grand scheme of things.


Surely EVO has to be done as an entity after this, it seems incredibly unlikely that this hasn't been known about for a long time since there are posts online about it going back years. Their response has that vibe of 'Oh well, sorry everyone found out but the show must go on I guess'. Nah, their brand is as tainted as they come.


There's a lot that's great about many of the people who play these games but there are also other elements in the crowd that have always been completely minging. You only need to look at r/Kappa or the live chat of any tournament stream or Fightcade at pretty much any time of day to see that. If this coming into the light and the likes of FChamp/Low Tier God getting slaps on the wrist starts a process of ripping things up to start over again, built on better foundations then personally I feel that's for the best long-term.

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I feel bad that because of that idiot all has to collapse now.

Shame because TFH was going to get a lot of public exposure, until launch I had no idea the game existed, and I couldnt not believe it is so good!


My problem with TFH is that it is so much fun to just play that I cant be bothered going to training mode, I just keep mashing buttons and loving it lol.

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Lately I've wasted pretty much every other evening watching Marlinpie on YouTube. He pretty much just plays the game and says "oh no!" or "oh I got lucky!" and occasionally does a doom ting. I'm sure I would suck at actually playing sf4 now, but recommencing watching mvc3 is like riding a bike, except easier.


Oh hi guys.

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I got KI during last Steam sale because its a friends favorite game, and because it was an Evo online... before it all... 

Whats your opinion of the game?

I find it a bit over-engineered the combo system is a bit too strict isnt it?

But the game feels tight and it feels like well done.

It looks amazing on 4k on my new PC.


Whats a good beginner character? I dont want Jago!!!! 

 Ryu is my main in most SF games xD.

(and his standard auto double (MP) kinda similar looking to his basic link (214MP)  so I find it a bit confusing.


I think the game being so strict makes it a good compation to TFH which feels more messy, in a good way, of course.

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I think Killer Instinct is absolutely outstanding. One of the best fighting games of the modern era, just a bit hamstrung by being an Xbone exclusive for such a long time. The tutorial is really solid, the neutral is really satisfying and Streetfighter-y and the combo/breaker/counter breaker system means that you cannot switch your brain off for even a second. Samurai Shodown achieves this by making the entire game focused around neutral, KI does it by making combos themselves part of the mix up.  Also an amazingly diverse roster packed with interesting ideas. I wanted to learn almost all of them. Also a soundtrack full of Mick Gordon bangers. I absolutely love it and am sad that my local scene never really embraced it.


I know you don't want to play DefaultGuy, but Jago really is the best character to learn the game with, possibly even more so than  in other fighting games. His Instinct and combo trait make the most immediate sense, his auto-doubles all look like they're supposed to and are easy to recognise with a bit of practise and his match ups and gameplan also make sense. I never end up with the shoto as my main character in a fighting game but they really are a sensible first pick. Sabrewulf and Orchid are also relatively straightforward and beginner-friendly though.


Also Jago is one of the coolest shoto builds I've seen. His chargeable/dash cancellable fireballs in particular are an absolute delight and there are 100 shotos in 100 other games who would kill to have them.


The combo system feels very odd, but the game has to have clearly defined combo routes because they're so important to the ebb and flow of the game. What sets Killer Instinct apart from other fighting games is that a combo is not guaranteed damage. It's better to think of a combo as a mix up situation that is skewed in your favour. You're still rewarded for landing the hit, but there is a mindgame throughout the combo because you have to decide how greedy you want to be, what ender you want, and which breakers you've conditioned the opponent to look for etc.. With all of that in mind, the combo routes have to have recogniseable patterns in them or you'd lose that mind game and the opponent would just be guessing. That said, there is a ton of scope for creativity, mix ups and swag regardless. There are manuals (more traditional link combos) and then characters who have all sorts of unique traits that add spice to the proceedings. Plus, in my opinion, landing a successful Counter Breaker against a Breaker-happy opponent is one of the most satisfying feelings in fighting games.


One of the  little mindgames I like is with Tusk. He has a move with Up + fierce that pounces on a grounded opponent if they've been hard knocked down. This is free damage he can tack on after any hard knockdown. However, as it's performed with heavy punch specifically and has no other strengths or variations, it can always be combo broken with a heavy breaker. So, in theory, the opponent never has to take it - they can't be locked out for using the wrong breaker strength because it's always heavy.


However, if Tusk does the move and then cancels into a counter breaker, catching their breaker attempt, they then get locked out of breakers for a few seconds and he can go to town with whatever max damage savagery he wants to dish out. On the flip side of *that*,  if Tusk anticipates a breaker and goes for the counter breaker but the opponent didn't try and break it, he eats a punish for whiffing his counter breaker.


This sort of mindgame is happening every single time anyone lands a hit in Killer Instinct, and once it clicks it has its own unique magic. I really really hope they make another one with the same guys behind it because, despite having an extremely dedicated hardcore community who created their own Pro Tour off their own back, the game wasn't nearly as big as it deserved to be.


Lastly, the netcode is sensational. I think it's the best fighting game netcode I've ever experienced, feels legitimately as smooth as offline against all but the absolute worst connections. It's straight up witchcraft.



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I know they are old and probably don't have a following anymore but I had a great hour or two with both Fighting Vipers and Virta Fighter 2, the Xbox Live arcade ports. Fucking hell they are so simple and so clean looking. And pretty damn visceral, especially twatting someone right through the fence and out of the arena in Vipers. Akira can crunch some bones too. Like I say so simple, and wow especially the sound, no superfluous stuff, you know when you've connected with those slams. Subwoofer says hi.


Really surprised just how much fun a game they still play. 

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Looking forward going back to TFH. 

I'm still lerning KI.



Fantasy Strike lacks basic stuff you may take for granted like dashes or crouching!.

I want to like it but... Seriously... No crouch.

The crouch/overhead mixup is the very basic element of fighting games. Isn't it?

It's like making a Mario game with no jump to make it simpler.


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No crouch takes a bit of getting used to in FS, but after a while I didn’t miss it. Mixups are strike/throw since normal throws are so good (but can be yomi countered), and left/right crossup mixups. 

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I really want to like Fantasy Strike, especially as it was recommended to me in another thread:


And I can get on fine with the tutorial and playing solo on easy. But I tried the daily challenge and got immediately defeated by the first opponent, then tried a casual online match with a similarly-ranked opponent, who I think I managed to take two points of health off in total across all the rounds. They were pretty much juggling me from the start every time and I had no idea what was going on or how to react.


Are there any tips for obvious things I should be doing to avoid being instantly wiped out in every fight, to give myself a little thinking time, or is it time to accept, as in that quoted post, that I'm just too old and slow for even deliberately simplified fighting games?

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I'm not a good player or anything so take it for what it's worth but I'd be willing to bet that reactions are much less of an issue than you imagine because I think that's true of almost everyone who starts out playing fighting games or just dabbles every now and again. Obviously razor-sharp reactions are nice if you have them but game knowledge and experience count for much more and usually when you watch good players they're not really doing much on reaction alone, they're doing option selects, choosing what to do pre-emptively based on deep knowledge of ranges (a lot of so-called whiff punishes fall into this category) and/or cutting their reaction times down massively by knowing exactly what they need to be looking out for and when, as well as having been in that situation countless times before so they have the execution drilled in and ready to go without them even having to think. Even commentators propagate myths like this quite a bit by constantly going 'OH THE REACTIONS!' when it often wasn't that at all. If a really good player has to resort to a panicked pure reaction I think they probably consider that a mistake on their part.


Knowledge is so important that even just having a tiny bit more than someone can make these games completely one-sided, that's what's likely to be happening to you when you play a new game rather than it being some inherent failing on your part. It's just normal really. I constantly see Reddit posts along the lines of 'I've played this game for 50 hours online and just got my first win!' Most of them are obviously from youngsters too, reactions presumably no issue.


It's a lot like shmups which often have a similar misconception. Reactions only really effect how well you do when you've never seen a section before but experience is what's important after that. I'm getting towards 40 and have long-term insomnia issues so my reactions are fairly sloth-like a lot of the time but I've 1CC'd quite a few shooters in pretty severe states of sleep deprivation purely through knowing what's coming and what I need to look out for. I did a level 1 Dark Souls run not long back when I was going through a really bad period with it - same thing, it's just knowing the game. And I bet I could 20-0 any 15 year-old who'd never played Street Fighter before from my lowly 'have only ever bothered to grind up to ultra bronze' ivory tower too :P

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That makes sense. Online seemed like a massive leap up from the solo game but that might be because the free version doesn't have all the solo modes I would normally play for ages (and so get a few basic concepts vaguely sussed) before daring to try an online match. With this I was online almost immediately while I was still almost clueless. I'll stick with it!

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I think Fantasy Strike resets the ranks every few months too so I imagine it's possible to run into good players if you jump straight into ranked.


I've only had a brief look at the game but there's a really excellent section accessible from the main menu that has videos on how to play each character so it should be possible to get a bit of early matchup knowledge that way.


It's a shame you can't play with friends on the free to play version or we could've had some matches to figure things out. I'm quite into the idea of playing a bit of Rook since he's basically Zangief for people who are too lazy to train 360s/720s.

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Yeah there was a pretty ridiculous argument a while back about whiff punishing because some people didn’t like the idea that it was anticipation more than reactions. It can be a combination of both, but yeah it’s definitely a myth that top players all have superhuman reaction times. It’s why Fuudo, who actually does, is so incredible to watch as he has both the insane level of readiness *and* incredible twitch reactions. Daigo, on the other hand, whiff punishes you because he has decades of high level experience and already knows what you’ll do before you even know it. 

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Not explicitly not Street Fighter but it looks like theres gonna be a roundtable discussion with Japanese fighting game developers on 1st August.


Speculation is that this will feature a batch of announcements which were due for EVO. Tekken's new content, the 5 new SFV characters, Soulcalibur updates and hopefully more info on King of Fighters XV.


They're also accepting discussion topics via Twitter. Hopefully it leads to some superior, shared netcode solution.


Here's a list of notable folk confirmed (stolen from Resetera):


  • Daisuke Ishiwatari (General Director of "Guilty Gear" series)
  • Kazutoshi Sekine (Guilty Gear Battle Director)
  • Ryo Nishitani (Producer of "Fighting EX Layer")
  • Yasuyuki Oda (SNK producer)
  • Nobuyuki Kuroki (SNK Director)
  • Shohei Matsumoto (Producer of "Street Fighter V")
  • Takayuki Nakayama ( "Street Fighter V" director)
  • Yohei Shinbori (Producer of "Dead or Alive 6")
  • Katsuhiro Harada ("Tekken" series chief producer)
  • Motohiro Okubo (Producer of "Soul Calibur 6")






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