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Xbox Series X

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1 minute ago, SeanR said:

the most expensive one is the best one?

 

Have you just explained that your own argument is stupid?

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2 hours ago, metallicfrodo said:

It's all rumour though at the moment, there is no messaging at all. If (when) the thing is actually announced would probably be a better time to comment on the messaging.

In fairness there is messaging. They've done a whole press release and video about "Optimised for Series X" as already posted earlier on this thread. 

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/25/xbox-series-x-full-power-of-console-games-optimized/

 

The Series S/Lockhart details are sketchy but have been confirmed to be a real thing so I don't think commenting that the two things don't really stack up at this time is hardly a high concept topic (unless they call one the Series X and one the Series X Pro/Plus/Digital/Lite or something in which case it's would work).

 

I'm not sure it precludes an opinion/discussion on it, especially when there is plenty going on about the actual state of the hardware spec which is a much much more wooly area. If no one cares, then that's also fine :) 

 

I don't really get the defensiveness about it things like this to be honest. Xbox is great, but not everything about it is always right/well done and it's okay to say that and talk about it. I like my Playstation too but Sony have a catalogue of mis-steps themselves as well.

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34 minutes ago, Mr Tony said:

 

How? It really is simple. People who are tying themselves in knots over things must have massive problems when buying most tech or cars. 

 

Oh shit, I don't know if this £22,000 Ford Focus is the new one or the one from 2004! So confusing!!!!

 

It's pretty well established that cars keep model names but update every x years. Not so for consoles and that isn't what's happening either - it's not quite the same name. Also the Series X/S will be temporarily compatible with the X/S for a few years for first party stuff then won't. People like us understand the difference but then we're not close to being your average console buyer. You're also much more likely to do some research and figure out slightly confusing product names and compatability windows if you're spending £22k - less so for a £400 - £500 gaming device. Given Microsoft are going to finish this gen in a distant third place it seems odd to obfuscate their product line to any degree. 

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1 minute ago, petrolgirls said:

 

It's pretty well established that cars keep model names but update every x years. Not so for consoles and that isn't what's happening either - it's not quite the same name. Also the Series X/S will be temporarily compatible with the X/S for a few years for first party stuff then won't. People like us understand the difference but then we're not close to being your average console buyer. You're also much more likely to do some research and figure out slightly confusing product names and compatability windows if you're spending £22k - less so for a £400 - £500 gaming device. Given Microsoft are going to finish this gen in a distant third place it seems odd to obfuscate their product line to any degree. 

 

So like iPad, or iPad Pro, or Mac, or Macbook, or Precision, or most other bits of tech out there. 

 

They all have their names and get updated each year / few years. Games and apps will be compatible across multiple versions, but will drop off eventually. 

 

Most people are not that stupid. It will be fine. 

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20 minutes ago, FiveFootNinja said:

In fairness there is messaging. They've done a whole press release and video about "Optimised for Series X" as already posted earlier on this thread. 

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/25/xbox-series-x-full-power-of-console-games-optimized/

 

The Series S/Lockhart details are sketchy but have been confirmed to be a real thing so I don't think commenting that the two things don't really stack up at this time is hardly a high concept topic (unless they call one the Series X and one the Series X Pro/Plus/Digital/Lite or something in which case it's would work).

 

I'm not sure it precludes an opinion/discussion on it, especially when there is plenty going on about the actual state of the hardware spec which is a much much more wooly area. If no one cares, then that's also fine :) 

 

I don't really get the defensiveness about it things like this to be honest. Xbox is great, but not everything about it is always right/well done and it's okay to say that and talk about it. I like my Playstation too but Sony have a catalogue of mis-steps themselves as well.

 

Have Microsoft released a press release about Lockhart?  The fact that we're still referring to it's codename suggests that they haven't said much if they have.

 

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10 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

Have Microsoft released a press release about Lockhart?  The fact that we're still referring to it's codename suggests that they haven't said much if they have.

 

No, they have recently released stuff about their new "Optimized for Series X" badge (see link in post you quoted) which I have merely made a side comment that - from a marketing point of view - if they do call the other one the Series S (which all the current leaks/rumours are fairly confident about) I don't feel like it stacks up that well. Especially compared to things like "Smart Delivery" which has done the job really well at drawing things together.

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2 minutes ago, FiveFootNinja said:

 

No, they have recently released stuff about their new "Optimized for Series X" badge (see link in post you quoted) which I have merely made a side comment that - from a marketing point of view - if they do call the other one the Series S (which all the current leaks/rumours are fairly confident about) I don't feel like it stacks up that well. Especially compared to things like "Smart Delivery" which have done the jobs really well.

 

Sorry, I thought you were saying that there was confusion around Lockhart and I was interested to know what the messaging was. I know they've been talking about Series X. 

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19 minutes ago, Mr Tony said:

 

So like iPad, or iPad Pro, or Mac, or Macbook, or Precision, or most other bits of tech out there. 

 

They all have their names and get updated each year / few years. Games and apps will be compatible across multiple versions, but will drop off eventually. 

 

Most people are not that stupid. It will be fine. 

 

All your examples are just a model name and a year, this is an Xbox [name] One [name for 3rd and 4th generation] Series [4th generation] X/S [GPU power differential]. None of that seems especially intuitive. Compare with an iPad [name] Pro [power differential] it seems needlessly convoluted. I'm not saying most people won't be able to figure it out but it seems an odd hurdle to place in front of consumers given where Microsoft are in the market. 

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31 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

 

Have you just explained that your own argument is stupid?

 

no, because my previous arguments were: 

 

"who's buying the cheaper cut-down version, when a better version exists?"

 

and 

 

"who's buying the expensive version when a cheaper version that does nearly the same thing exists?"

 

which has always been my only concern. Since time began:

 

No one's buying the hardware if the games are not there.

No one's making games for if it no one's buying the hardware.

 

it's the videogame equivalent of a catch-22 situation.

 

#consistency

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I would assume they'd just add an 'Optimised for Series S' badge as well - and have that on any boxes needed alongside the 'X' one. Or they'll also have a joint 'Optimised for Series S&X' badge.

 

There are plenty of options still that could very easily work.

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3 minutes ago, SeanR said:

which has always been my only concern

 

giphy.gif

 

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Just now, rgraves said:

I would assume they'd just add an 'Optimised for Series S' badge as well - and have that on any boxes needed alongside the 'X' one. Or they'll also have a joint 'Optimised for Series S&X' badge.

 

There are plenty of options still that could very easily work.

 

A matrix on the back of each game with...

 

... no silly idea, an xbox one game that's "enhanced for Xbox One X" wouldn't necessarily be "enhanced for Xbox Series S", would it. It would be "standard" on a Series X, wouldn't it?

 

or super-enhanced, on series S, and dogs-bollocks enhanced on series X.

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12 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

Sorry, I thought you were saying that there was confusion around Lockhart and I was interested to know what the messaging was. I know they've been talking about Series X. 

No, sorry all I've seen on that was the Eurogamer thing about a leaked Microsoft document...  https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-06-29-microsoft-will-close-out-june-without-a-big-xbox-20-20-moment

 

 

11 minutes ago, rgraves said:

I would assume they'd just add an 'Optimised for Series S' badge as well - and have that on any boxes needed alongside the 'X' one. Or they'll also have a joint 'Optimised for Series S&X' badge.

To be honest you've kind of made my point for me there as I don't think loads of badges does work very well from a marketing point of view. Although "optimised for S&X" sounds like something Elon Musk would stick on a Tesla and they do alright.

 

It was all a minor observation really. I work in marketing and as soon as I saw the "optimised" thing it just felt a bit wrong compared to some of the other good stuff they've done.

 

Either way... I'm interested to hear more about the Series S as it actually appeals quite a lot. If the price is low enough it might tempt me in early (as I'm probably going to go PS5 for launch now) but might give me that bump up in performance for my Game Pass/existing Xbox games (which I'll otherwise be continuing to play on my Xbox One) rather than waiting for a year or two before getting the X when I can afford it and the proper games come out.

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15 minutes ago, FiveFootNinja said:

 

No, they have recently released stuff about their new "Optimized for Series X" badge (see link in post you quoted) which I have merely made a side comment that - from a marketing point of view - if they do call the other one the Series S (which all the current leaks/rumours are fairly confident about) I don't feel like it stacks up that well. Especially compared to things like "Smart Delivery" which has done the job really well at drawing things together.

Maybe there’s an optimised for Series S badge that sits next to the X one.

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5 hours ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

(And Jesus Microsoft you have made this convoluted and confusing. Lord knows how the general consumer will navigate your naming conventions.)

 

Agreed. Series One S, Series One X? Really? Maybe the worst console names of all time.

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Ok there isn’t actually a One. Point made.

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It's pretty good how concerned everyone is about something that they will definitely understand immediately but think that 99% of the world will be baffled by. 

 

"I got a new Xbox and some games!" Father shouts up the stairs.

 

The tears roll as he opens up a box containing another Apple Airport Extreme (6th Gen) and a copy of Myst (Windows 3.1).

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1 minute ago, Wahwah* said:

It's pretty good how concerned everyone is about something that they will definitely understand immediately but think that 99% of the world will be baffled by. 

 

"I got a new Xbox and some games!" Father shouts up the stairs.

 

The tears roll as he opens up a box containing an Xbox Series S...

 

ftfy

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4 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

...and a copy of Myst (Windows 3.1).

Is that going to be backwards compatible?! :omg:;) 

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10 minutes ago, FiveFootNinja said:

To be honest you've kind of made my point for me there as I don't think loads of badges does work very well from a marketing point of view. Although "optimised for S&X" sounds like something Elon Musk would stick on a Tesla and they do alright.

 

But it won't be loads of badges will it - it'll be one. A game will either be optimised for X (so needs all the oomph an X can give it), or optimised for S&X (so will work on either essentially) - just one of those two badges is all that's needed on a box.

 

I don't think this is where we are heading at all - just saying they've clearly not painted themselves in a corner whatever they have coming up.

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1 minute ago, FiveFootNinja said:

Is that going to be backwards compatible?! :omg:;) 

Backwards compatibility is endless...

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5 minutes ago, rgraves said:

 

But it won't be loads of badges will it - it'll be one. A game will either be optimised for X (so needs all the oomph an X can give it), or optimised for S&X (so will work on either essentially) - just one of those two badges is all that's needed on a box.

 

I don't think this is where we are heading at all - just saying they've clearly not painted themselves in a corner whatever they have coming up.

 

"optimised for S&X" can't mean the same thing though.

 

they have to be treated separately.


 

Spoiler

 

A game "optimised" for S, still has additional headroom to take advantage off, on the X.

 

back to my matrix idea. If you had to list USPs for the game on each model of Xbox, what would it include?

 

<models> obviously (OneS, OneX, Series S, Series X)

 

what about additional <features>? what else do games scale up on, across the 4 consoles?

 

native 4k and 1080p: do you need to mention this, if the game doesn't do 4K? Would one tickbox suffice? Is it implied that if a game requires a SeriesX to do native 4k, then it defaults to a lower res on other machines? ray-tracing: again, is this a reserve of the top end?

 

If everything "box-worthy" can only be done on the top-end console, would you draw attention to the lack of said feature on the other consoles? No, I guess not.

 

Again, my matrix idea cancels itself out.

 

 

Ah! Oh... The "optimised for" badge would only apply to "current gen" games on next-gen "Series" hardware.

 

That's why there are no series X 1st party exclusive games for 12 months. They're easing into it. Give the developers a chance to get to grips with the hardware and then wow us. Brilliant! Though it's almost like they're crowdfunding the development of the games, by pre-selling the hardware... "Spend money on the assets required for the new hardware, look how big the userbase is, (but also make the games really short, because reasons)"

 

I guess until the lockheart/series S is announced this is all just speculation.

 

Let's see what MicroSoft do. Trying to preemptively guess is madness

 

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You should let MS know they’re making a huge mistake with all these console shenanigans before they embarrass themselves, Sean. 

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1 hour ago, JPL said:

Which are also really easy to differentiate. I’ve honestly no idea how anyone with even a passing interest would get confused. I think it’s probably just a bit of silly console wars nonsense masquerading as concern.

 

Aha, so that’s what concern trolling is!

It's not console wars or concern trolling, you dolt.

 

I will buy both - its drawing attention to ms creating marketing problems for no good reason.

 

 

 

 

 

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Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but won't MS follow the mobile phone model of preventing major OS upgrades on specific versions of consoles to dictate what games work on which system. So at some point in the future (2 years):

 

Series X and S continue to receive major OS upgrades and can play the latest games, and all previous games.

One X and S (and One) to receive minor OS upgrades and only play what is allowed to be played on that OS.

 

And this continues with new XBOX machines in the future. Seems fairly straight forward to me and anyone who has used a smart phone over the last ten years.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, cultofweaver said:

 The PS5 being two SKUs is just as confusing and requires the same amount of research as two Xboxes.


with drive, without drive. Other than that, identical.


Yeah, real confusing.

 

to be fair, the positioning of the Series S isn’t confusing, and won’t be until it’s announced. Then we can start with the head-scratching.


 

Quote

They play the same games, but the more expensive one plays them better.


If two things are different, they are not the same.

Edited by SeanR
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6 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

It's not console wars or concern trolling, you dolt.

 

I will buy both - its drawing attention to ms creating marketing problems for no good reason.

 

 

 

 

 

But they haven’t created any marketing problems.

 

You want the less powerful, cheaper option, that only does 1080, get the S.

You want the more powerful, premium priced option, that does 4K, get the X.

 

I don’t know how they could make it any simpler and I really don’t believe you or anyone else in here is genuinely struggling with understanding it.

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Supposing the S doesn’t have a drive, to further bring the price down?

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