Jump to content
rllmuk
djbhammer

Xbox Series X - power your dreams

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, PeteBrant said:

What do you think the article is about?


It’s about competing with Amazon and Google and the race to lower the barrier to entry for more and more consumers. Just because their approach is streaming, that doesn’t make it Xbox’s approach. Which is why they are best placed deliver the best of both worlds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Phil

If cloud computing is seen as the future and needed to expand and make an aspect of your business work is it more advantageous to have your own infrastructure or pile your profits into using your competitors setup?

 

That's why these huge global corporations have people who look for future trends and invest in them before they become mainstream. One persons 'no reason to invest' is another persons billon dollar enterprise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:


It’s about competing with Amazon and Google and the race to lower the barrier to entry for more and more consumers. Just because their approach is streaming, that doesn’t make it Xbox’s approach. Which is why they are best placed deliver the best of both worlds. 

It specifically mentions cloud computing as the driver for the comment.

 

4 minutes ago, Revival said:

If cloud computing is seen as the future and needed to expand and make an aspect of your business work is it more advantageous to have your own infrastructure or pile your profits into using your competitors setup?

Depends entirely what your business model is.

Ask yourself this; Why don't Microsoft and Sony and Apple make thier own hardware? Surely its advantageous for them to build thier own and not use thier revene to pay another companies profits? Yet that is exactly what they do.

Its about Fixed vs Variable costs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Phil Spencer got promoted in 2017 he went from being "Head of Xbox" to "Executive Vice President, Gaming". A quick look at his profile on the Microsoft site says "Spencer is accountable for leading Microsoft’s gaming business across all devices and services."

 

His job title and description seems to have  shifted from just selling games to the public and instead to selling both Azure services to developers and games to the public. 

 

The Protocol article mentions that Activision recently signed a big deal to use Google's cloud services and broadcast eSports on YouTube. There's currently no sign of their games showing up on Stadia so it's not something that looks like it'll affect consumers anytime soon but it's still obviously a win for Google to get a company like that using their services. 

 

Microsoft under Nadella have been consistently bigging up the cloud as the future of the company. That doesn't need to be consumer facing products. Amazon are making money off Fortnite because it runs on AWS. Sony and Nintendo aren't in as good a position as Microsoft to compete for that market. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

It specifically mentions cloud computing as the driver for the comment.


I’m not sure what your point is. They are investing heavily in streaming and clearly see it as a major part of the future and key to increasing the size of the market. That’s the clear difference between them and Sony/Nintendo. It doesn’t preclude them having games run on consoles and PC as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Revival said:

If cloud computing is seen as the future and needed to expand and make an aspect of your business work is it more advantageous to have your own infrastructure or pile your profits into using your competitors setup?


That’s a big if though. There’s still fundamental issues with streaming that suggests it won’t be a significant medium until much later into the next generation of consoles at the earliest. It makes little sense for Nintendo or Sony to invest heavily in infrastructure for something that doesn’t overlap with any of their other businesses and may not be significant in gaming for years.
 

The status quo isn’t immutable either, if streaming does start to become ubiquitous then there’ll be a financial threshold where it makes sense for Nintendo and Sony to invest in their own server infrastructure - IMO that isn’t today or even in a few years time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PeteBrant said:

It specifically mentions cloud computing as the driver for the comment.

 

Depends entirely what your business model is.

Ask yourself this; Why don't Microsoft and Sony and Apple make thier own hardware? Surely its advantageous for them to build thier own and not use thier revene to pay another companies profits? Yet that is exactly what they do.

Its about Fixed vs Variable costs.


I think it’s reductive to look at it like that.


I work for a multinational. We don’t have a huge amount of fixed infrastructure, and tend to use cloud like everyone else. The underlying hardware isn’t where we make our money, but the services we build on top.

 

in the console space, however, historically the money for platform holders has been in licensing fees to enable people to deploy their software on that platform, a little bit on accessories and hardware tied to the platform, and, more recently, subscription fees to access online services. The first of those ways of making money disappears once everything is in the cloud, the second becomes much trickier - there’s not that much difference between a DS4 and an Xbox pad, and the third becomes the ball game. A fourth way of making money becomes from renting infrastructure, ideally coupling it to a subscription service.

 

i can see how Microsoft are much better positioned than Sony or Nintendo at that point, if you think cloud is the future. (I’m not completely convinced, but if the gamble pays off it utterly disrupts the existing business models).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, footle said:

in the console space, however, historically the money for platform holders has been in licensing fees to enable people to deploy their software on that platform, a little bit on accessories and hardware tied to the platform, and, more recently, subscription fees to access online services. The first of those ways of making money disappears once everything is in the cloud


Why would it disappear? Let’s imagine everything moves to the cloud tomorrow, instead of buying hardware, you download a PlayStation or Nintendo app for your TV/phone/PC, your PSN and Nintendo ID migrates (maybe in the case of Nintendo, haha) and your games are now available to play without dedicated hardware. You still buy new games from their shop front. Despite this being a big technological shift under the hood the end result to customers won’t be significant and I don’t begin to understand the notion that they wouldn’t be able to make money from their games without dedicated hardware. In many respects Sony and Nintendo would happily jettison the $300-$400 barrier to entry that is console hardware. They make little money from hardware itself so it’s not like it’ll be missed financially.

 

I’ve just done exactly this with AppleTV. I had an old AppleTV that I hardly used under my telly. I can safely decommission it as my LG telly now has an AppleTV app. I’m much more likely to buy content from their store now as the app is a click away on my TV. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would I buy games from their shopfront if it’s all on a generic cloud, rather than buy them from epic, valve etc.?

Why would anyone pay them licensing fees to run on the generic cloud, as opposed to on their very specific hardware?

 

etc.

 

I’m sure they can sell their own games. I don’t see why the likes of EA and Ubisoft will be paying them a cut of every sale (sure, the ones through their shop front, but not those through EA or Ubisoft’s shop fronts as they would now).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do people overwhelmingly buy stuff from Steam rather than individual publishers? There’s still stuff like controllers to take into account along with online play and ID’s to figure out, not to mention access to games already tied to that store. I guess there’s a future where shops atomise into individual publishers or even developers but it seems unlikely to me - in the short to medium term at least it’s much more likely the market would coalesce around the console makers store fronts with their exclusives and Steam.

 

It’s an interesting hypothetical but I don’t see it being an issue for a good while, if ever, perhaps. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because publisher launchers are shitter and somehow generally more expensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite, publishers aren’t much good at setting up platforms/services - don’t think that would change much if we move to streaming games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbh I find it difficult to credit the argument that Sony are particularly well suited to running an online store: they’re the one company I’m definitely never leaving my credit card details anywhere near.

  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does somebody at these companies keep on trying to raise the bar on the limitless potential of The Cloud or something every year?!? Last time they were talking about a number most people already found incredulous, now The Cloud is going to reach every living human on the planet!

 

Quote

Spencer said Microsoft was willing to cooperate with Nintendo and Sony on initiatives like allowing gamers on the various companies' systems to play with and against one another. He added: "I don't want to be in a fight over format wars with those guys while Amazon and Google are focusing on how to get gaming to 7 billion people around the world. Ultimately, that's the goal."

 

Facebook recently bought a Spanish Cloud-gaming company and they already have a fairly large audience reach.

 

Quote

 

Facebook has acquired the Spanish cloud gaming startup PlayGiga, according to reports from CNBC and Spanish business newspaper Cinco Dias. The social media giant reportedly spent €70 million (around $78 million) for the startup.

 

Facebook confirmed the acquisition Wednesday afternoon. “We’re thrilled to welcome PlayGiga to the Facebook Gaming team,” A Facebook spokesperson told Variety, adding cheekily: “We’ll decline further cmment for now.”

 

“We are excited to announce that the PlayGiga team is moving on to something new,” PlayGiga said on its website. “We are continuing our work in cloud gaming, now with a new mission.”

 

PlayGiga was operating cloud gaming services in Italy, Argentina, Chile and Spain, and was aiming to launch in the Middle East soon. It had also run proof-of-concept tests in Sweden, Austria, the Netherlands and Guatemala, according to its website. The company had struck licensing agreements for more than 300 game titles with notable publishers, including WB, Disney and Sega.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really think that Phil is getting ahead of himself with these comments about Google and Amazon being their true competition. There's a reason Google bought YouTube despite running their own video streaming service, there's a reason Netflix dwarfs Amazon Prime, despite Netflix actually being run off Amazon's AWS servers. People buy the brand, not the infrastructure.

 

I think Phil's right in that the future will involve the cloud and gaming will become more of a service than a product, but infrastructure isn't the silver bullet in winning that war, brand is. Nobody is getting excited about XCloud because it's run on Azure, people want it so they can stream their Xbox games. The brand and the games are the most important component to this and here, Playstation is more than competitive with MS.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Robo_1 said:

I really think that Phil is getting ahead of himself with these comments about Google and Amazon being their true competition. There's a reason Google bought YouTube despite running their own video streaming service, there's a reason Netflix dwarfs Amazon Prime, despite Netflix actually being run off Amazon's AWS servers. People buy the brand, not the infrastructure.

 

There's a reason why Amazon are making money off of Netflix's use of their servers, and Netflix aren't.

Also it's a weird comparison, because Amazon use Prime as a loss-leader.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I think the obvious reason he didn't say Sony are cloud competition is because they're on Azure and paying them a good whack for the partnership.

 

That's one "side", whereas Amazon and Google aren't.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, footle said:

There's a reason why Amazon are making money off of Netflix's use of their servers, and Netflix aren't.

Also it's a weird comparison, because Amazon use Prime as a loss-leader.

 

The only point I'm making is that brands matter to end consumers more than infrastructure. Netflix and Spotify dominate their respective areas in terms of market share and they don't have their own cloud infrastructure to support them, so I think the idea that Playstation can be dismissed doesn't stack up. That's not to ignore the obvious advantages of having your own network and the additional revenue it generates, but so far, there's no evidence that network providers who also provide end user services are favoured by consumers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RubberJohnny said:

Yeah, I think the obvious reason he didn't say Sony are cloud competition is because they're on Azure and paying them a good whack for the partnership.

 

That's one "side", whereas Amazon and Google aren't.

 

Yeah, if the future is all streaming, then I guess in that sense MS don't actually care that much if people are taking out Playstation Now or X Cloud subs, just so long as they're running on Azure. In that sort of future, I guess Sony would become a pure content provider and they'll be more like EA, offering a monthly sub for access to Playstation content.

 

By the time host hardware is irrelevant and everything is all streamed (if indeed that happens, as I think Stadia has far from proven the case) then I'd also expect there to be more than the three current cloud networks and I could see them all vying to offer a sub for their various movie / music / gaming streaming services, in which case I'd expect to see a lot of buyouts of these current big media brands.

 

Yeah, it'll be a different world, that's for sure. A part of me will miss the format war fun though, the build up and the traditional face off over specs. Ah well, so long as I can still find C64 fans to tease about Chase HQ, I'll survive. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/02/2020 at 17:38, Robo_1 said:

 

The only point I'm making is that brands matter to end consumers more than infrastructure. Netflix and Spotify dominate their respective areas in terms of market share and they don't have their own cloud infrastructure to support them, so I think the idea that Playstation can be dismissed doesn't stack up. That's not to ignore the obvious advantages of having your own network and the additional revenue it generates, but so far, there's no evidence that network providers who also provide end user services are favoured by consumers.

 

If people read the source article and used that as the basis for discussion, instead of the selective interpretation of it that has spread throughout the internet instead, I'd have hoped the discussion would be slightly more well-informed.

 

Phil (I assume his birth name is actually Philip, unless American parents are that uncouth) Spencer is talking about the infrastructure as to why Google or Amazon are his main competitors, assuming you believe in The Power of the Cloud-based future that limitless fat virtual pipes will enable of course.

 

But as you say, content is the real king, not the infrastructure used to deliver it. Hence the exclusive content wars currently being waged across all media streaming platforms.

 

The original article is titled "Why big tech is betting big on gaming in 2020" and covers every other major American tech player before finally reaching Microsoft.

 

 

Quote

 

For gaming veteran Microsoft, the big change this year is in who it considers its big competitors.

 

In the fall, Microsoft will square off once again with traditional rival Sony as each introduces new game consoles, the Xbox Series X and the PlayStation 5.

 

But Microsoft's Spencer says he doesn't consider Sony and Nintendo his main competition anymore, largely because neither of those Japanese companies owns its own top-end global cloud infrastructure akin to Microsoft's Azure platform. One of Microsoft's main selling points for the new Xbox will be integration with its xCloud technology, which is meant to allow you to play the same game across a console, a desktop PC and a mobile device.

 

"When you talk about Nintendo and Sony, we have a ton of respect for them, but we see Amazon and Google as the main competitors going forward," Spencer said. "That's not to disrespect Nintendo and Sony, but the traditional gaming companies are somewhat out of position. I guess they could try to re-create Azure, but we've invested tens of billions of dollars in cloud over the years."

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The original article has some quite interesting stats about how important gaming is for the other major American technology companies, who knew that Apple claim to be the World's most popular gaming platform for instance?

 

Quote

 

So there is a deep irony to the fact that video games are now one of Apple's most important financial drivers, generating more than 80% of total revenue on the company's mobile App Store. More than 1 billion people play games on iPhone and iPad, according to Apple executives, making iOS by far the world's most popular video game platform. Apple does not even make games itself, yet the company generates more revenue from them (an estimated roughly $10 billion annually) than any company besides Tencent, Sony and Microsoft.

 

"Apple is an extraordinary piece of the global game market that doesn't get much attention," said Ben Schachter, a technology analyst formerly at Macquarie and UBS. "Apple is arguably the world's largest video game distributor, and the App Store is dominant in a way that no other platform has ever been."

 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/02/2020 at 18:50, mushashi said:

The original article has some quite interesting stats about how important gaming is for the other major American technology companies, who knew that Apple claim to be the World's most popular gaming platform for instance?

 

 

 

The major flaw being that mobile games are not games as such. The vast majority being simple cash grabs with little content or any end game. In fact mobile gaming is just one big cash cow for developers to make money for little content. The perfect example of this is Call of Duty mobile. Which isn't even made by the original developer.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 4
  • Empathy 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apple being the largest game distributor is about as relevant to traditional gaming as Lego being the worlds largest maker of tyres is to my fiesta.

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never said they weren't neggy neggerson.

 

But thanks for the gratuitous insult for some reason.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually shocked, 12 TF is huge for a console, you're talking above RTX 2080 levels of power, slightly lower than the 2080 Ti.

 

This is going to be a monster.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smart Delivery means if you buy an Xbox One version of a game, it will automatically upgrade it to the Series X version if there is one. That sounds great. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/02/24/what-you-can-expect-next-generation-gaming/

 



The next generation of game compatibility

The benefits of the next console generation extend in every direction, bringing greater visual fidelity and improved loading speeds to your existing gaming legacy, in addition to new games. We’re continuing our commitment to compatibility with Xbox Series X and investing in technology that makes game ownership easier across generations.

Four generations of gaming: Our commitment to compatibility means existing Xbox One games, including backward-compatible Xbox 360 and original Xbox games, look and play better than ever before. Your favorite games, including titles in Xbox Game Pass, benefit from steadier framerates, faster load times and improved resolution and visual fidelity – all with no developer work required. Your Xbox One gaming accessories also come forward with you.

Smart Delivery: This technology empowers you to buy a game once and know that – whether you are playing it on Xbox One or Xbox Series X – you are getting the right version of that game on whatever Xbox you’re  playing on. We’re making the commitment to use Smart Delivery on all our exclusive Xbox Game Studios titles, including Halo Infinite, ensuring you only have to purchase a title once in order to play the best available version for whichever Xbox console they choose to play on. This technology is available for all developers and publishers, and they can choose to use it for titles that will be release on Xbox One first and come to the Xbox Series X later.

Xbox Game Pass: In addition to games from across four generations of consoles, our leading game subscription service, Xbox Game Pass, will continue to have our first party games, like Halo Infinite, included at their launch.  We look forward to millions of you experiencing the Xbox Game Pass portfolio and immersing yourselves in a deep library of high-quality games, playing those you love now and also discovering your next great adventure.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.