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Xbox Series X - out November

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I don't think he is explaining himself well at all - I hope he means when either console will aim for 1440p rather than 4k - it will leave a lot more headroom for frames per second and other effects like raytracing etc. For most people 1440p with a good upscaling/AA solution on a 4k tv will look pretty much the same as 4K at most distances unless very close to your screen. With the Series X being even more powerful than the PS5 it has even more headroom to take advantage of this.

 

TLDR - the visual fidelity 4k presents over 1440p isn't often worth the cost it in most situations 

 

You won't see DLSS on console as it is an nvidia tech but hopefully AMD present their own solution

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1 minute ago, Uzi said:

I don't think he is explaining himself well at all - I hope he means when either console will aim for 1440p rather than 4k - it will leave a lot more headroom for frames per second and other effects like raytracing etc. For most people 1440p with a good upscaling/AA solution on a 4k tv will look pretty much the same as 4K at most distances unless very close to your screen. With the Series X being even more powerful than the PS5 it has even more headroom to take advantage of this.

 

TLDR - the visual fidelity 4k presents over 1440p isn't often worth the cost it in most situations 

 

Yes, this. but then the typical rllmuk cunts pile on.

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6 hours ago, gooner4life said:

 

Yes, this. but then the typical rllmuk cunts pile on.


You’ve posted a lot of crap, and then get upset when people point it out?

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11 hours ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

I do wonder if MS have misread the market. The confusing name. The samey design. The same UI. Games that run identically on both gens (without looking wildly different on the new hardware).

 

Maybe I'm dinosaur, but I want to know a NEW GEN™ has arrived. I want new UI's and games that I can't play on my old hardware. I want a console that feels shiny and new.

 

Everything about MS's softly, softly approach seems iterative, and like its designed not to piss off its current gen owners.

 

And who knows that might be the winning approach, BUT as a customer its deeply unexciting to watch unfold.

Let's face it is Sony any better? Both consoles iterative developments of what has gone before. Most first party games are iterations of the same franchises. It's what sells to the masses they like what they know and know what they like. Games are too expensive to make today to take risks especially more so for third parties to make exclusive to one platform.

 

Just the state of things. Just pick a device that you like best and has the franchises you enjoy.

 

Personally like MSs approach because all my old content will work on a newer console. There has been a clear message from the start. Also the tech specs have been stated up front from the get go of the initial reveal of the Series X. Just feels they are been much more transparent about everything. 

 

If you want to see something different try VR, play some indie titles or follow Nintendo as they like to throw curve balls everywhere!  :)

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@MattyP I don't disagree that both consoles are the same thing. And I also agree that MS is being unusually consumer friendly with this one (possibly because they are still scared from the last reveal!).

 

BUT there just seems to be a cumulative effect of the messaging (so far) giving the impression not much is changing (the look, the feel, the name) - that I think could easily work against MS with wider consumers. As others have said its the Wii U effect. It might work for phones, but consoles are a different game. 

 

When the Series X was announced I had to dig and double check what it was, because even I - as a hardcore gamer wasn't sure. Thats a problem that is not going to go away. And I think its going to take more than a new Halo to fix.

 

Sony are being aggressive and clear in telling us what they are offering. MS seem to be assuming everyone already knows. 

 

 

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That view is pretty much the complete opposite of what people think on other forums. It's Xbox that's been clear and concise on things like backwards compatibility, Smart Delivery, Game Pass, Controller compatibility, The ever evolving UI and Storefront and they've got their next gen games blowout in July.

 

No one knows what the price, release date or launch line up of either system is yet. There's nothing iterative about having the most powerful console and letting everyone experience the launch games with little extra cost thanks to Game Pass.

 

Sony haven't been agressive, There's been two e3 no shows and they've been quiet in 2020 when their customers were asking constantly for info.

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50 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

Sony are being aggressive and clear in telling us what they are offering. MS seem to be assuming everyone already knows. 

 

This is the complete opposite of how I’ve seen it.

 

MS have been really transparent and done a really good job of telling us all about what the Series X will bring. All we’re waiting on now is a good show of games and the price.

 

Whereas Sony seemed to shy away from giving us any info until that developer focussed talk from Cerny, then they still left us hanging for more consumer friendly stuff, albeit with Corona virus to deal with, so I am sympathetic.

 

Maybe it’s a question of perspective, but I do think MS have been far more open so far. I just hope they’ve got the goods in their game reveal next month.

 

I still think Sony will sell more consoles again this gen, simply because of the power of the PlayStation brand, but it’s not a metric I care about. I just want them both, along with Nintendo, to keep pushing things forward.

 

TL, DR: What Revival just said.

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58 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

BUT there just seems to be a cumulative effect of the messaging (so far) giving the impression not much is changing (the look, the feel, the name) - that I think could easily work against MS with wider consumers. As others have said its the Wii U effect. It might work for phones, but consoles are a different game. 

 

When the Series X was announced I had to dig and double check what it was, because even I - as a hardcore gamer wasn't sure. Thats a problem that is not going to go away. And I think its going to take more than a new Halo to fix.

 

Sony are being aggressive and clear in telling us what they are offering. MS seem to be assuming everyone already knows. 

I'm genuinely surprised by this.

 

Microsoft's messaging is pretty clear as far as I can tell. The new xbox will be the most powerful console on the market. That's basically it.

 

The other two points are all your old games will work on it and you can play all the new games they put out with gamepass. 

 

I've paid comparatively little attention this time around (no e3 conferences, I guess) but what I've casually seen on twitter is people twisting themselves into knots to say that the playstation disc drive is all that matters. I think the messaging about power got through. 

 

I've seen people complain that Gamepass is going to be a problem for microsoft - it's just too good value! I think the gamepass messaging got through.

 

I've seen people say that it's a good thing when there's a clean break between systems because you buy a new console to buy new games. I think the messaging about taking your library of games got through.  

 

As noted,  it's still relatively early and things will ramp up by the end of the year. When Microsoft start to show what the studios they bought have been working on, if there are more games than Sony has, expect people to say it's better when platform holders release less games as it means you look forward to them more and the build up and hype is part of the experience.

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It’s always a bit of a guessing game how these things will translate to the wider market. The confusion of the Wii U being the best example I can think of.

 

Changing the word in the middle to differentiate your new console from the last one you put at still strikes me as more risky in that regard than just changing the number on the end. You can’t really beat that.

 

But other than that, MS have been pretty good about getting details out there. Much better than Sony, but I think it’s important to remember that there’s still plenty of time. Both Sony and MS have time to distill their messages well before launch.

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12 hours ago, gooner4life said:

 

1440p is a massive jump in IQ,  however it's definitely in the diminishing returns range from 1440p to 2160p.

 

1080p is 4 times, if you split the screen into 4 quadrants, each quarter would be a 1080p image, where as with 1440p to 2160p it's 2 and a quarter times, basically the equivalent of 720p to 1080p and 8k is an even bigger jump, that's back to 4 times 4k, so 16 times 1080p, it's all about how the image scales, 4K is 4 x Full HD, but 1440p is 4 x HD or 720p.

 

Just post this:

 

image.png

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1 minute ago, Mr Tony said:

 

Just post this:

 

image.png

 

Pretty misleading - if you're going to do that, at least scale the axes correctly (it's ok, until 8K).

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58 minutes ago, footle said:

 

Pretty misleading - if you're going to do that, at least scale the axes correctly (it's ok, until 8K).

1080 should fit perfectly 4 times into 4K as well.

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10 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I think his point is that 4K should fit into 8K in the same way. 

Ah yeah, my post didn’t make sense. I was agreeing with him.

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19 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I think his point is that 4K should fit into 8K in the same way. 

 

Yeah, I'd missed the slight offset on 1080p, because it was drowned by that 4k to 8k discrepancy.

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Sony are so far in the lead this gen that even with Game Pass as the trojan horse, Microsoft really need a couple of absolute bangers in their launch lineup to build Series X momentum. They'll doubtless have Halo Infinite and a new Forza (mainline? Horizon?) on day one, so if those deliver to a system-selling degree the game's not over, particularly as it doesn't look at this point that Sony will have that kind of potential 9/10 or 10/10 scoring game at launch. Sony's momentum from this gen does the sales job for them automatically. If you remember, Microsoft could have had the box seat before this gen started after the goodwill towards the 360, but that disastrous and misguided 'TV, TV, TV' strategy in 2013 killed them, despite Sony not having anything at launch that could be described as a system seller either.

 

If Microsoft aren't exceptionally strong out of the gate this time, though, I can't see them having a chance against Sony. Early momentum is so, so important, and while I like the consumer-friendly strategy of games being playable across all devices, I do worry about how it doesn't make much of a case for why the Series X is an essential machine in the early days of the console. They need it to be that. This could go either way... maybe Microsoft would be happy enough with a healthily selling console and loads of Game Pass subscriptions, I don't know. It'll be interesting to see how many people keep it when the £1 a month trick that so many of us piled on 3 years of membership for, runs out. I know I will, though. It's an amazing service, particularly when you consider how many first party games will be on there next gen now that Microsoft have so many studios. I do presume that it will become more expensive soonish, or gain a higher membership tier, or their games will all have a base version and then loads of paid DLC. I don't really see how the economics work otherwise. (Personally , if I wanted to make more subs money, I'd have a premium subscription that includes all DLC, and gradually move to all first party games including less and less base content and more DLC to encourage takeup of the new tier... Consumer unfriendly, economically yummy.)

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The first year for the SEX will largely be about updates to this gen's games. This can be easily dismissed in comparison to Sony's new gen new games messaging. However when it becomes apparent to the hardcore that they'll be expected to rebuy Cyberpunk to get the extra shinies on PS5 I'd expect a significant level of scorn from the regular influencers and media outlets.

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23 minutes ago, Boozy The Clown said:

However when it becomes apparent to the hardcore that they'll be expected to rebuy Cyberpunk to get the extra shinies on PS5...

 

In fairness that isn't confirmed either way. CD Projekt Red said they don't expect any of their customers to pay for upgrades to a game they have already purchased on any platform, even EA have mentioned it so I would expect some sort of Smart Delivery type system to turn up on the PS5 in time as well (although Sony have form with the 'paid remaster' approach previously).

 

We'll see though, given the current climate and possible crunch on disposable income looming they will be kneecapping themselves if they expect people to buy two versions of Cyberpunk within 12 months. Phil Spencer's chat about Xbox being a platform that people can be on at various price points and seamlessly move through as their desire/cash flow is a well pitched position. 

 

Sony's game line-up is leagues ahead as it stands though (just like the whole of this gen), although I think we'll start seeing some really nice pieces of work coming out of their massive studio buy up a couple of years in.

 

Ultimately I'll still be buying both I expect.

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I can see Smart Delivery being a thing for me for Cyberpunk and maybe Valhalla and that's pretty much it. I doubt that many older games will be getting PS5 patches.

 

Maybe it's a bigger deal if you're planning to come late to the generation, but I don't see it massively influencing purchasing decisions. And Sony might announce an equivalent. Other than the box and PS4 back compat, they've still announced very little about the whole PS5 experience so far.

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It's already been mentioned about 50 times in this thread, but Sony had Crossplay between PS3, PS4 and PS Vita years ago. It was up to individual publishers whether to implement it (as it is with the Xbox I assume). I doubt there will be anything stopping publishers doing the same thing on PS5.

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3 minutes ago, David Kenny said:

It's already been mentioned about 50 times in this thread, but Sony had Crossplay between PS3, PS4 and PS Vita years ago. It was up to individual publishers whether to implement it (as it is with the Xbox I assume). I doubt there will be anything stopping publishers doing the same thing on PS5.

 

Did that carry your progress across? Or was it just about having a single license to play three different versions of the same game? Progress and cross-gen multiplayer compatibility are important factors these days.

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25 minutes ago, David Kenny said:

It's already been mentioned about 50 times in this thread, but Sony had Crossplay between PS3, PS4 and PS Vita years ago. It was up to individual publishers whether to implement it (as it is with the Xbox I assume). I doubt there will be anything stopping publishers doing the same thing on PS5.

It’s be nice if Sony would mention it at some point though, just so we know where we stand.

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15 minutes ago, Pob said:

 

Did that carry your progress across? Or was it just about having a single license to play three different versions of the same game? Progress and cross-gen multiplayer compatibility are important factors these days.

It was different for each game, some of them let you upload and download your save file between machines, but it had to be implemented by the developer. (I never play any multiplayer games so couldn't tell you about that).

 

But I'm really only talking about the idea that you're going to have to pay twice for the same game on PS4 and PS5. You certainly might need to, but Sony have previous form for allowing licences to move between consoles.

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1 minute ago, JPL said:

It’s be nice if Sony would mention it at some point though, just so we know where we stand.

I'll be honest, it's not keeping me up at night.

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Just now, David Kenny said:

I'll be honest, it's not keeping me up at night.

Me neither and I’m sure they’ll let us know before launch.

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5 hours ago, Eighthours said:

Sony are so far in the lead this gen that even with Game Pass as the trojan horse, 

How so? They have shown a bunch of games that are mostly available on other platforms. Hardly any release dates for anything and started their presentation with a 7 year old game. So not really sure. Suppose it depends if you like Sony's franchises or not  Which is what it comes down to in the end. If you predominantly like playing third party titles though XsX is the most powerful console out of the two so better experience will be on that in terms of pure compute power. The final thing for most people that play online is where your friends are at. Although X-play moves might change that - see games like Fortnite!

 

From my point of view just sitting on the sidelines to see how it all pans out. Like to see what Polyphony do with GT7 however there are so many better (IMHO) PC racers out there these days they will have to pull something special out or the bag. Secretly hoping Sony do a few PC ports over the forthcoming years too. Then I have zero reason to get a PS5 at all. A Gran Turismo might be quite nice on the PC (with VR of course! :))

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17 minutes ago, MattyP said:

Then I have zero reason to get a PS5 at all.

Different strokes and all, but last night chatting with some mates we were talking in a similar but totally opposite vein of buying a gaming PC instead of the Xbox Series X - as most of the games will be on both and cross-playable from that side of things going forwards (and it could do decent VR) - and then buying the PS5 for access to their exclusives.

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1 hour ago, FiveFootNinja said:

I would expect some sort of Smart Delivery type system to turn up on the PS5 in time as well (although Sony have form with the 'paid remaster' approach previously).

 

I think the fact that Sony's big console reveal began with a remastered game, the big game (so far only 1st party game of note) is a gussied up PS4 game and Demon's Souls was one of the premier announcements should cast less certainty about that.

 

I think it is also interesting that days after Sony announce multiple remastered games and expansions without mentioning any cross support Microsoft do a big press release trumpeting Smart Delivery. Certainly has the feel of a company knowing that they have an advantage and pushing it.

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4 minutes ago, FiveFootNinja said:

Different strokes and all, but last night chatting with some mates we were talking in a similar but totally opposite vein of buying a gaming PC instead of the Xbox Series X - as most of the games will be on both and cross-playable from that side of things going forwards (and it could do decent VR) - and then buying the PS5 for access to their exclusives.

 

I think sometimes that might be a decent solution but then I think there's no real Xbox Live chat equivalent on the PC.   Or is there?     Single player games wise that would be a good bet. Especially if you had your PC connected to the main TV.  

 

 

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I actually think Microsoft’s overall business plan still looks confused and caught between two different approaches.

 

Game Pass is a great idea. And it’s necessary because it’s Microsoft have been in the console business for 20 years now and they’re still the number three player in it behind Nintendo and Sony.
 

The only generation they were remotely competitive for market leadership was when Sony went insane and even then they couldn’t get near Nintendo and the 360 ended up selling almost on parity with the PS3 by the end.

 

So for whatever reason, Microsoft can’t win when they’re playing either of the other two at their own game. That means the need to change the game, and Game Pass - becoming a service rather than hardware - is the best way to do that.

 

With that in mind, it’s the Series X or whatever this Lockhart is that I can’t see the point of right now. Instead of going head to head with Sony via another expensive box, just drop the existing One S to £99, One X to £149 and get people hooked on Game Pass that way. 
 

Microsoft aren’t going to have any actual ‘next-gen’ games ready until 2022 anyway - why not just step away from the bunfight and go all in on the subscription vision? If they introduced a Series X console at a later date then they could price lower and they would be selling it to millions more Game Pass subscribers - and at that point the whole smart delivery upgrade thing becomes much more impressive. 
 

Tl, Dr - Game Pass is the killer app, MS should use consoles to sell Game Pass, at the moment it still seems like they’re using Game Pass to sell consoles.

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