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Doom Eternal - iD Tech 7, Huge Maps, Invade Other Players' Campaigns


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1 hour ago, Kayin Amoh said:

 

Maybe here. Overall? Nah, definitely not.

 

Yeah, it reviewed better than the first, apparently made more money than the first and more people are completing it than the first.

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5 hours ago, the_debaser said:

This game will be most people’s biggest disappointment of 2020, right? It’s like the Matrix sequels compared to The Matrix, doubling down on bits that didn’t matter at the expense of what made the original a stone cold classic.
 

Except worse than that. 

Hold your horses, we’ve got two whole console launches to come in 2020 which aren’t going to happen before we talk disappointment. 

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Well, it's pretty clear that the_debaser has zero taste in games. DOOM Eternal aside, here's a guy that thinks Bloodborne is shite and Tropical Freeze a mediocre platformer. 

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There are enough brilliant improvements in Eternal to make Doom 2016 feel out of date to the point I don’t want to play 2016 again. 
 

There are enough crap design choices and annoyances in Eternal to stop me wanting to play that again too.

 

So Eternal is a really good game that paradoxically put me off modern Doom completely. Bah. 

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Not to defend the_debaser, god no, but I'd just like to point out/remind you all that "biggest disappointment" doesn't mean "the worst game" or "unsuccessful game" or even a bad game necessarily. If you had high expectations and it didn't do it for you, that's a big disappointment - even if it's the best game ever made.

 

Sekiro is brilliant, but far too difficult for me. A disappointment. Likewise, I appreciate lots of people liking Eternal but it evolved in all the wrong directions for me after the brilliance and purity of DOOM 2016. A disappointment - for me.

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The thing that's so odd about Eternal is that the gameplay evolved in a good direction, but they totally blew the easy bits / bits that didn't need to tinkering. 

 

Id should just fire anyone who thinks lore is a good idea.

 

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Whenever I pop my head in here I find the negative reaction a bit bewildering. I thought this was completely brilliant; one of my top three of the year. 

 

Granted, the story is arse but the moment-to-moment action makes it easy to ignore. The way the systems all feed each other and the way you absolutely-must-not, can-not-stop moving make you feel completely unstoppable once it clicks.

 

One of those games where you can enter a room and think 'well I'm never going to do this' and then half an hour later you're showboating. 

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17 hours ago, Stanley said:

If it’s not Nintendo he ain’t interested -_-


I actually packed away my PS4 and XB1 over the weekend. 
 

Now just left with my mini SNES and Switch hooked up to my main TV. It’s glorious. :wub:

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3 minutes ago, the_debaser said:


I actually packed away my PS4 and XB1 over the weekend. 
 

Now just left with my mini SNES and Switch hooked up to my main TV. It’s glorious. :wub:

Well yeah, it’s a nice set up for sure. 

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9 hours ago, Hass said:

Id should just fire anyone who thinks lore is a good idea.

 

 

Doom lore is fine. I'm just not keen on what appears to be a serious attempt to have Elder Scrolls style bullshit slinking its way into all the good hell / space stuff.

 

I can almost hear 'Yea, verily, fair Slayer, thou must maketh contacst withest the betraye...' AGH. Who? WHO DID THIS?

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On 29/08/2020 at 09:31, K said:

The marauders are proper bastards, aren’t they? It seems like the only weapon you can realistically use against them is the super shotgun, as it feels like the only thing that staggers them. Can you realistically use anything else on them? It wouldn’t be so bad fighting them one on one, but the game mechanics seem to require having fodder enemies knocking around, as otherwise you’d run out of ammo. 

 

I’m still not sure how much I’m enjoying this. The actual combat bits are fun, but then it chucks a lengthy cutscene or a terrible boss at you, or one of those fucking marauders with their irritating respawning ghost dogs.

 

You'll be pleased to know the trailer for the DLC ends with the "mic drop" reveal that you... fight two marauders at once.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thought Id give this a punt, im a couple of hours in and cant say I like it that much. Something just feels.... wrong. Does it feel a little cartoony or something. I can't put my finger on what it is.  I find it a bit tiresome constantly running out of ammo and having to chainsaw bods (never thought Id say that).  And the story stuff is terribad. 

Music is still great though! 

Oh and it's making me motion sick, which really doesnt happen very often with flat screen games. 

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Completed in under 18 hours. I warmed up to it and found myself enjoying large chunks of it. The platforming wasnt too bad once the controls got bedded in, it was very rarely I missed any jumps or platforms which minimised frustration.  

All in all pretty good fun. A bit light at under 20 hours maybe, and I still felt like something was a bit off with it, cant really put my finger on what it is though. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I've played the first two missions of this and really enjoyed them. There are loads of systems in there that all link together satisfyingly and I can see myself really loving the rest of my time with it. But... with all that aside...

 

What have they done to my wonderful DOOM?

 

I'm sure all of this has been said before in here but DOOM 2016 was, for me, the ultimate pared back homage to shooters of the past. It took one new mechanic in the glory kill and let you have at it for one of the freshest, simplest gorefests in years. It took shooters of the day in all their mechanics and realism and shouty story and snapped their necks with a press of the right stick. 

 

Eternal takes everything that DOOM did and snaps its neck with an LB grenade, chainsaw, swap to shotgun, swap to grenade weapon mod, fire, swap to rifle, shoot, and a press of the right stick. There's so much going on, so many systems that it tells you how to do everything immediately so that it can get to the next thing. It's positively bizarre as a sequel to 2016. It feels more like Guitar Hero than DOOM. I have no issue with this whatsoever as a game, I think I'm going to absolutely love it as that thing I described back there with the Guitar Hero/DOOM is my perfect game, but it feels like it's been purposely made to go against everything its prequel set out to do. Even story wise, it goes from having Doom Guy as this awesome dude that demons are scared of with no time for your shit 

to basically being Jesus who would like to hear much much more of your shit about how great he is at every opportunity, please. 

 

DOOM had this amazing feeling of bouncing around arenas using a wide variety of weapons on the fly in interesting, inventive ways. This is literally the opposite. It might as well have you jump around as enemies holding signs that say "Zoom in rifle", "Super Shotgun Mod 2" and "BFG" as you flick through your weapons to deal with them in incredibly scripted ways. It's really fun, and there is absolutely room for improvisation as you work out what order to kill everything, but it seems crazily against everything it's prequel stood for. 

 

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Yeah, it was a fun game, but it was too gamey for me. Which sounds like an odd thing to say, but I mean that the core mechanics of the game - flamethrower gives you armour, chainsaw gives you ammo, and glory kills give you health - are completely arbitrary. There's no reason why chainsawing enemies magically produces ammo, and there's no reason why your chainsaw magically regenerates fuel. This obviously applies to most games - you can't carry fifteen weapons and all their ammo, and just pull them out at a second's notice - but Doom Eternal takes it so incredibly far that it undermines it, and having things like extra lives and tutorial popups doesn't help either. It has the same relationship to killing demons as Amplitude has to playing music - it feels like its almost been completely abstracted to the point where it's a reaction / muscle memory test. I like a bit of context with my action. 

 

They seemed to try to provide that context by jamming it full of lore, but that went horribly wrong.

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Because it was the wrong lore.

 

They 

Spoiler

made it all "it's aliens, not demons"

 while, bafflingly, spending the whole game going, "remember that daft Doom comic? That was shite, wasn't it?" while at the same time making it a key part of Eternal's lore.

 

I think I said this previously, but in the first half of the game I was scared that they were going to do a thing where he avenges his rabbit again (what with the references to the rabbit everywhere in the Fortress), but in the second half of the game I was scared that there weren't going to do that.

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Finally finished this off. Really enjoyed it in the end after the differences to 2016 felt quite jarring, but think I'd struggle to go back to 2016 now that I've experienced the furious plate spinning of 2016. Playing it through on Ultra Violence now and the mechanics seem to "click" more at that difficulty too, a little like how the original Halo was best experienced on Legendary once you knew the maps and the mechanics. Very impressive game. 

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8 hours ago, Nosejam said:

I was quite enjoying this on Gamepass until I got to where you need to jump onto a pole then do a seemingly impossible double jump after. Died 5 times and uninstalled.

 

The jumping bits are annoying, yes, but the game on a whole is utterly incredible, so I think you have possibly missed out by not playing it more.

Headphones on, 4K 60fps,  it has to be one of the most intense and fun none VR experiences I have had outside of VR on PC. 

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It barely felt like an FPS. You run around watching counters on the UI and triggering canned animations with single button presses whenever they get below a threshold. The gameplay's dull and all the extraneous shit they layered on top is bafflingly awful.

 

It's genuinely one of the most disappointing games I've ever played.

 

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Nah you're mad it's great. Different and the complete antitheses of everything DOOM has ever been before, but great. Bit of a nice question, does anyone know if I can change the setting so that pressing RB cycles through my weapons rather than jumps to the last one i used? I know I have the weapon wheel but it feels like going to that totally slows down the action when I want to keep everything as quick as possible.  

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I don't mind Doom Eternal being more 'gamey', I can see that they were trying to push even further into what Q3A did to Q1/2 DM in quite a fanboyish way. I particularly enjoyed how much the Doomguy's house felt like a Q3A map. I do mind that they overloaded the controls and 'skill tree' to the point of tedium.


So much of the design is based around distracting the player from the fact that they're trying to fit more 'stuff' into the same amount of memory. More enemy types, but they're less detailed and boringly animated. Beautiful panoramic vistas, but empty, linear string-of-disconnected-arenas levels. All the little cutscenes and one-off animations, just gone. No supporting characters. The writing an afterthought.


The problem is that Martin and Stratton at some fundamental level don't understand why people liked Doom, or learned all the wrong lessons from the critical reception of Doom 2016. The first hint of this was how much they go on about the shite Doom comic in 2016. Meme humour.


Nobody gives a shit about exploring the Doomguy's back story. And Doom was never supposed to be a power fantasy. Doom was meant to be an exploration of the most intense, badass situation that could happen in the fictional framework/ruleset of 1. Dungeons and Dragons and 2. Aliens. It's supposed to be scary. The stakes are supposed to feel real. You're not supposed to be an all powerful demigod, you're supposed to be you (assuming 'you' is most likely a nerd in their early 20s like the creators, who secretly believes that if they devoted their life to fighting baddies they could be Ash from Evil Dead).


The tagline of Doom 1 is "where the sanest place is behind a gun". The tagline of Doom Eternal is "the only thing they fear is you". They fucked it.


I know they're inevitably making another one, but I have very dim hopes for it unless someone else is directing it.


Plus they made the violence too cartoony. You're already fighting non-human enemies which lets them get away with more brutal stuff, but giving the enemies pupils and making them pull stupid faces just looks corny. Wasting a load of former humans and imps with the Doom 2 Super Shotgun feels more impactful than any of the glory kills. They feel weightless, un-earned. Only the berserk ones are any good because they're hilarious and you don't see them 5,000 times while thinking about ammo and armour meters.


Also the platforming was shit.

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It adds nothing to the game and is hamfistedly implemented.

 

It's good when collapsing platforms don't reset on death, real sign of that trademark id technical polish there.

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30 minutes ago, MK-1601 said:

The problem is that Martin and Stratton at some fundamental level don't understand why people liked Doom, or learned all the wrong lessons from the critical reception of Doom 2016. The first hint of this was how much they go on about the shite Doom comic in 2016. Meme humour.

 

What's bizarre is that in the Noclip documentary about the 2016 game, Martin talks about how they originally had this awful storyline gradually uncovering that they're dealing with demons not aliens, or whatever, and they realised it was shit and stripped it almost completely out (I think the way he puts it is "Oh my god, who cares?!"). In Doom Eternal it's like they've made a sequel to that cut storyline.

 

It's just so baffling that the same people who made the 2016 game made this. It feels like Brutal Doom - completely missing the point of what made the original good, and adding a load of distractions that don't need to be there.

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23 hours ago, Parappa said:

Impressive yes. But whoever decided to include even more platforming elements needs a BFG where the sun don't shine. 

 

21 hours ago, Nosejam said:

I was quite enjoying this on Gamepass until I got to where you need to jump onto a pole then do a seemingly impossible double jump after. Died 5 times and uninstalled.

 

11 hours ago, PK said:

It barely felt like an FPS. You run around watching counters on the UI and triggering canned animations with single button presses whenever they get below a threshold. The gameplay's dull and all the extraneous shit they layered on top is bafflingly awful.

 

It's genuinely one of the most disappointing games I've ever played.

 

 

You're all nuts - its utterly utterly brilliant.

 

I really liked the platforming (then again I think that first platforming is a massively underrepresented genre that can really be great), and I really can't understand why people found it so hard - yeah I had the odd frustrating death but when it works its breathtaking and frequently really cleverly designed.

 

I really can't understand how this ended up being such a marmite game, it takes everything Doom 2016 brought to the table and then mashes it up with character action game and adds some exploration and platforming for a change of pace.

 

The concentration needed and tension from some of the best set piece battles in this game (most of the final level being the best example) is the most exhilarating gaming I've enjoyed in years. 

 

Its my game GOTY to date (okay its probably the only 2020 released game I've played) but its really good honest.

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