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Doom Eternal - iD Tech 7, Huge Maps, Invade Other Players' Campaigns


RubberJohnny
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On 25/05/2020 at 14:21, Vemsie said:

Mechanically, it's comfortly the best FPS ever made


Come on, pull the other one. It’s not even the best in the series, and that one isn’t as good as the older id games. 
 

The actual best FPS mechanics probably reside with Titanfall 2, but I haven’t played every FPS ever made so I’m not going to make that claim. 

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8 hours ago, Hass said:

Started playing this again last night, starting from scratch again because I'd lost track and couldn't remember all the new mechanics.

 

The core gameplay loop is bloody brilliant. And I love the fact it's tough but always achievable. Plus it looks and moves amazing  (Stadia). But my word, the story is incomprehensible and the gameplay interrupting "this is how you kill this new demon type"...I have no idea what inspired them. I don't mind the platforming sections though.

 

Turn the tutorials off if they're annoying you, it's one of the menu options. They're a thing of the past for me now, and I often forget they ever existed.

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On 20/08/2020 at 20:26, David Heath said:

Although it's a bit dismaying to read some of the negative impressions here after Doom 2016 became one of my favourite 3D first person shooters of all time, I just know that as soon as this motherbitch hits Switch I'll be on my knees sucking demon cock faster than you can say "Samuel Hayden", and I don't care how much purple goo I get on me.

 

Oh god, I would not get my hopes up for a good time on Switch. The game is pretty clearly designed with a mouse in mind, so it doesn't feel great on a pad to start with. Then you've got 30fps and reduced visual clarity... I don't see it working too well.

 

Doom 2016 was infinitely more console-friendly than this.

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17 hours ago, Moz said:


Come on, pull the other one. It’s not even the best in the series, and that one isn’t as good as the older id games. 
 

The actual best FPS mechanics probably reside with Titanfall 2, but I haven’t played every FPS ever made so I’m not going to make that claim. 


I actually like TF2 a lot, but its SP combat is not that special and the enemies are fairly one-note. Its strenghts are its mobility and level design.
I personally much prefer Eternal (and 2016) over the old DOOMs, which are much more limited in terms of mobility, verticality and combat options. And 2016 is more limited than Eternal in that regard. 

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I guess my problem is, all the extra mobility, verticality and combat options added in Eternal are... not good. The platforming is bad. There are ten guns with two modes and multiple upgrades each and two types of grenade for some reason but none of it is very fun to use or well utilised. It's like juggling 50 awkward little balls at once while someone kicks you in the arse. I have no idea how it works on controller, I've seen several people who played it that way and didn't like it say they think it might be better on PC. But it's not, it's still annoyingly overstuffed with underused undercooked mechanics.

 

There's maybe a fundamental mismatch between what they're going for and what I want it to be. I really do like the idea that you need to use different attacks and finishers to soak up the different lifegiving currencies of ammo, armour and health. But the execution doesn't land for me. It falls between two stools where I'd rather see a more fully realised elemental damage system implemented, or just get rid of the system entirely.

 

I really didn't like the level structure either, they felt disconnected and obtuse. The weird inclusion of tedious codexes and lore was bizarre, the invasions simply didn't work, the multiplayer was a non-starter and the self-referential hub world took me further out of the flow of action.

 

I was really surprised by how little I liked it, because I liked 2016 a lot. This was one of the bigger disappointments for me in recent memory. I don't always believe that less is more, but this is a great example of more being less.

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16 hours ago, Kayin Amoh said:

 

Turn the tutorials off if they're annoying you, it's one of the menu options. They're a thing of the past for me now, and I often forget they ever existed.

 

Mind blown. Thank you.

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3 hours ago, Moz said:

I was really surprised by how little I liked it, because I liked 2016 a lot. This was one of the bigger disappointments for me in recent memory. I don't always believe that less is more, but this is a great example of more being less.

 

I think a big part of the issue is that Doom Eternal just feels relentless but not always in a good way and it lost any of the charm of the original's storytelling.

 

I've not completed Eternal yet, partly because the relentlessness of it all puts me off. But when I do I have sense my main feeling will be relief and I won't be going back again. Which is a shame because I think I've completed 2016 5 or 6 times.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Vemsie said:


I actually like TF2 a lot, but its SP combat is not that special and the enemies are fairly one-note. Its strenghts are its mobility and level design.
I personally much prefer Eternal (and 2016) over the old DOOMs, which are much more limited in terms of mobility, verticality and combat options. And 2016 is more limited than Eternal in that regard. 

That’s fine, I enjoyed Doom 2016, but I’d argue that it is Doom in name only and that Doom 1&2 have a feel and structure that is unlike anything else and that none of its sequels have ever come close to matching. I love that everything worked on one level in Doom, so you didn’t have to aim up or down - it was obviously a restriction of the technology used back then - but it totally feeds into the gameplay and is as deliberate a mechanic as any in making Doom feel like Doom, as is the open level design in which enemies can chase you everywhere, and bodies stacking up. These are all elements that feel completely lost now IMO. 

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15 hours ago, Meh said:

Those totem things they introduce can get to fuck, too. "Here's a thing you have to wade through shit-loads of re-spawning enemies to find and destroy. Somewhere. HAVE FUN." Fuck off, game.

 

And there's absolutely no point fighting anything in those sequences, all you need to do is run around until you find the totem.

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21 hours ago, Moz said:

I guess my problem is, all the extra mobility, verticality and combat options added in Eternal are... not good. The platforming is bad.


I couldn't disagree more. The constant weapon switching, grappling hooking, dashing and shooting is poetry in motion. It controls buttery smooth. I love the excesses. DOOM Eternal is Ninja Gaiden with guns and I really hope Id's not going back to the more restrictive template of 2016. But I can see why people prefer 2016. I just happen to prefer Eternal's design philosophy (explained really well in the excellent Noclip interview with Hugo Martin).

Basically what Under The Mayo says in his vids.

 


It will be interesting to see where Id goes next. Eternal reviewed better, but I don't know if it sold better too.

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I'd be more than happy if the next game took its level design and narrative cues from 2016 but also kept most of the combat changes from Eternal. But considering that the pace and aesthetic of Eternal already felt like a Quake reboot, I could see them moving onto either that or something completely new.

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1 hour ago, Vemsie said:


I couldn't disagree more. The constant weapon switching, grappling hooking, dashing and shooting is poetry in motion. It controls buttery smooth. I love the excesses. DOOM Eternal is Ninja Gaiden with guns and I really hope Id's not going back to the more restrictive template of 2016. But I can see why people prefer 2016. I just happen to prefer Eternal's design philosophy (explained really well in the excellent Noclip interview with Hugo Martin).


I also wholeheartedly agree! I don’t think I’ve ever play a game that’s left me it total elation that I managed to keep all the plates spinning and get through a section. It’s really a wild game. Vemsie, did you play it on console or PC? 

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11 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:


I also wholeheartedly agree! I don’t think I’ve ever play a game that’s left me it total elation that I managed to keep all the plates spinning and get through a section. It’s really a wild game. Vemsie, did you play it on console or PC? 

 

2016 on console, Eternal on PC.

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Got a copy of this last week after waiting for the price to drop a bit. I loved 2016 Doom. This is quite disappointing. The combat sections are fun if tough and sometimes frustrating, but what in the world possessed them to include the terrible platforming sections, especially the wall climbing bits. And the story...I have no idea at all what's going on. All we need to know if that somehow the gates of hell have opened and demons have invaded earth, and leave it there. 

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I got to be honest I found DOOM 2016 to be much better than this as well  The platform sections don't really work that well and the game seems far too harsh with ammo and that spoils the fun a little. It doesn't seem to flow as well as DOOM 2016. Still a good game in saying all that. 

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But it’s really clumsy. Especially the movement. I’ve played every id game at launch since the first Doom and this is the only one that felt like a real misfire to me. I even liked Doom 3, that’s how easily pleased I am when it comes to id. Twitch PC fps and tough character action games are my jam, e.g. Vanquish is one of my favourite games ever. This is extremely my thing, and it didn’t land at all. 
 

I think the biggest problem is that every gun feels clumsy and spammy, either relying on splash damage or having such a wide recoil pattern that you barely need to put the crosshair on the target. There are no guns that require you to aim with any real precision because it wants you to constantly move, but WHERE you move doesn’t really matter. So I spent the whole game just running in a circle firing in the general direction of whatever was spawning in with whatever still had ammo. There’s very little creativity for the player to express themselves, it’s a rote loop where you’re looking at your bars at the bottom of the screen half the time and cycling through your methods to top them up. Just surviving and endlessly juggling a lot of not-great mushy guns while the encounters get increasingly obnoxious.
 

All of that would be alright if it had the same knowing tone and cohesive structure as the first, but that’s a real step back in every respect too. I did play the first one on fucking strong painkillers after I exploded my knee though. 
 

I don’t know if anyone played Shadow Warrior and then the sequel, but I had exactly the same reaction to that. 

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Absolutely loved Shadow Warrior, its influence on Doom 2016 was strong. Didn’t understand wtf they were going for with the sequel at all, turned it off in about an hour and never went back. Hope the third one is a course correction, looks like it’s gone full circle and started taking cues from Doom‘s combat loop.

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Mechanically everything feels balanced to death in DE, there’s no time for any ambience, exploration, or vibe, everything is in support of the gameplay, but on a controller it feels like a chore, so it totally undermines this approach.
 

I loved D2016; the structure was perfect for me, lots of exploration, skirmishes that you could choose when to engage with, backtracking to find ammo and whatnot, guns that felt really meaty, occasional pant-shitting terror as a new enemy was unveiled.  I unironically loved the setting and the art style, it felt like Doom.

 

The later battles in DE all feel the same, waves of the same enemies over and over, escalating the size and number.  The art style is an incoherent mess without any order.  The hud and ui are garish (with a font ripped from the og Xbox).  The platforming is often horrendous.  I understand the mechanics of using specific weapons for specific tasks, but it’s so proscribed and, for me, sucked the joy out of it.  The levels are all super linear, doubly upsetting on the “open world” style areas.  I find no visceral thrill to the combat, just a series of lock and key puzzles that dictate the play style - too much careful thinking, not enough panic and rockets in the face.

 

It’s still a fine game with some great sections, just not a Doom game for me.

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On 25/08/2020 at 13:54, Moz said:

 

And there's absolutely no point fighting anything in those sequences, all you need to do is run around until you find the totem.

 

I was constantly being hounded by enemies looking for the damn things, though. The one where there's lava everywhere was just... fuck this game.

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The marauders are proper bastards, aren’t they? It seems like the only weapon you can realistically use against them is the super shotgun, as it feels like the only thing that staggers them. Can you realistically use anything else on them? It wouldn’t be so bad fighting them one on one, but the game mechanics seem to require having fodder enemies knocking around, as otherwise you’d run out of ammo. 

 

I’m still not sure how much I’m enjoying this. The actual combat bits are fun, but then it chucks a lengthy cutscene or a terrible boss at you, or one of those fucking marauders with their irritating respawning ghost dogs.

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Also:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/08/29/doom-eternals-ancient-gods-dlc-wont-require-the-base-game/

 

Quote

“When we look at how many people have played through the game we have a large percentage – higher than 2016 – that have completed it, so you’re always looking at that and seeing how far players make it through your game,” said Stratton. “It’s important as we want the DLC to reach as many people as possible. In fact, you don’t even need to own Doom Eternal to buy the DLC and play it.”

 

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Marauders aren't bad, but they do sort of disrupt the standard (excellent) flow of combat so that you have to play parry chicken with them. I'd have them be tougher, personally, but also ditch their shields so that you don't absolutely have to do the 'parry' to take them down. I'd still keep that mechanic for a stun and damage boost, of course.

 

Two other minor changes I'd make to combat flow overall: dash could ram enemies aside (save getting mobbed and stuck in a corner), and the chainsaw could rip through any level of demon so long as they were set up for a glory kill and you had one charge left in the bar.

 

Interesting that you don't need Eternal for the DLC. I like the oil rig environment, but the alien architecture wasn't my bag - looked too much like a rejected Xcom concept. Steel and fire's where Doom excels.

 

...Christ, this game's magnificent. There hasn't been a great deal of games that put a smile on my face this year, but Eternal was thankfully a complete standout. 

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3 hours ago, the_debaser said:

This game will be most people’s biggest disappointment of 2020, right? It’s like the Matrix sequels compared to The Matrix, doubling down on bits that didn’t matter at the expense of what made the original a stone cold classic.
 

Except worse than that. 

 

Maybe here. Overall? Nah, definitely not.

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