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Doom Eternal - iD Tech 7, Huge Maps, Invade Other Players' Campaigns


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Plot talk:

 

 

Bah, I so want to like this and I was also looking forward to the plot, but damnit they went too far in two wrong directions and not enough in the right one. Pressing 

that trigger over and over with no response? Funny, but the Doomguy of 2016 would have punched the shit out of it 'til it fired, as one example. It sounds weird but he wasn't angry enough in the right way, and just let himself be sent on tasks without complaint and let people just talk shit over the radio. Also, there are so many lines of dialogue about how he has empathy for the victims and wants to save them, it's far too obvious, especially when 2016 did it all with a single silent, well-timed glance at a corpse. 

 

Also, the magic of 2016 was that, while there was some speculation that he was the betrayer (which  I never subscribed to) I always liked that he was an incredibly fucked off everyman who became so feared because he was just too angry to die. I didn't need him to be Space King Arthur in a universe of Warhammer-40k-meets-D&D.

 

There are other things too, like now the Betrayer is introduced and the Icon is stated as his son and yet he has nothing to do with anything regarding the final confrontation. Or how the game has no ending at all bar a line of dialogue that I basically equate to the "all the world will be your enemy" bit from Watership Down.

 

But all that pales in comparison to my main issue: Why, oh why, could I not punch Samuel Hayden in his stupid fucking mechanical face!? That's all I wanted: for Doomguy to walk into some meeting where Samuel is trying to bullshit about how he can contain the invasion, only for him to shite himself when he sees the Doomguy is back. The ending of Robocop, now I think about it. Instead he just shows up without so much as a sorry and starts ordering Doomguy around, which Doomguy just follows, all the while Hayden just reads out lines of text that tell of Doomguy's history and character with no subtlety or nuance at all. 

 

Early on, especially when I saw Doomguy's "office", I was scared that they were going to say that the whole reason that he was the ageless, indestructible, mega-angry Slayer was because they killed his rabbit. As it got nearer the end, I was scared that they wouldn't do that. It would be far less up its-own-arse than their "lore", as well as tying into the original Doom, and it would also be far more entertaining than the rip and tear/huge guts bullshit they went for. Seriously, why keep going back to that? The reason it's an in joke is it's shite, and they seem to agree, yet they make it the basis for his one line of dialogue and keep coming back to it in other ways. It's like a Highlander remake focusing on Planet Zeist from Highlander II, implying "wow, that was stupid", and then having them go there at the end.

 

Ah well. Here's hoping the DLC, since you don't play as the Guy in it, has you play as the player character from Doom 3. That'd be interesting.

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5 minutes ago, RJ Badman said:

Plot talk:

 

 

Spoiler

In the inexplicably* empty 'ancient city' level that goes on for ages dumping exposition, there's a point where the Khan Maykr tries to make a bargain with you to turn back. I actually tried to turn back in case there was an awesome 'bad ending' of doomguy getting reunited with Daisy. There was an invisible wall though. Boo to this.

 

*Whoops the huge skybox we made for the launch trailer doesn't leave any memory for enemies

 

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10 hours ago, Vemsie said:


Was watching this yesterday and I forgot how red and brown 2016 was. Sure, it's consistent but I much prefer the variety and colours on display in Eternal.

 

This is a great summing up. I finished it this morning on HMP (on PC pad because I wanted to play on my OLED) and the last few times I've played it my hands were fucking CLAMMY - it was that intense. It really is about resource and space management much more than dumb shooting which is what I think is throwing people off. This Doom needs brains as much as a trigger finger.

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11 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

People complaining about running out of ammo what?! 
Use your chainsaw and swap weapons/methods all the time. 
 

Sometimes I’m just like what? 


There’s surely a balance to be struck between encouraging ammo farming and requiring the player to bunny hop around the level multiple times just so you can finish off a single sub-boss. I think they’re slightly to the wrong side of it. 
 

To be fair my preferred solution would be to make the Marauder less of a tedious bullet sponge rather than up the ammo.


I know I’ve done a lot of whinging in here but I do think the combat is really very good, the air-dash and the chain-hook slot perfectly into the moveset and the localised damage/weak spots add whole new layer of depth to each encounter. It’s just the fine-tuning feels off for certain things.
 

For example the CyberMancubus is weak to blood punch, but can also spam a super strong area-of-effect attack without warning that kills you almost instantly. If this was one of the Platinum-style action games they’re clearly trying to emulate, moves like that would be signposted and the player would have a window to react. It’s the difference between knowing you died because you weren’t fast enough, and feeling like you were unavoidably killed by chance.

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There's something missing here. It spends the first third throwing endless upgrade systems at you, unleashes you for a little bit and then runs out of Steam. It's like a Platinum misfire.

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The last third is where I felt like I had finally understood all the weapons upgrades mechanics and enemy patterns that it was when everything came together and cranked it up to an actual 11. 

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I dunno man. I'm playing on ultraviolence and it's just kind of boring. You watch your meters at the bottom and press the button that makes whichever meter go back up when you need to. You've effectively got infinite ammo/health/armor as long as you keep moving. I'm only really dying when an enemy spawns right on top of me and traps me in a corner or something like that. It's intense, sure. But it's so one-note. I fundamentally don't like the system where every gun has two modes, it's annoying in the flow of combat. Just give me half as many firing modes that are more specialised and make me switch between them to kill specific enemies more effectively. As it is, you occasionally switch to the energy rifle thing to pop a shield and that's about it. I forget I've got half the weapons as I don't use the weapon wheel (number keys baybeee). Likewise both grenades and the flamebelch don't feel great to use - I'd rather just combine them into a single grenade or get rid of them entirely, I think I've used the freeze grenade about three times.

 

The main issues are the plot and story though - the combat's fine, but it's really lacking the wry spark the first game had. Teleporting into different locations solves the problem of maps looking too samey, but it ends up having a really disjointed feel. And why they thought I'd want to read codex entries on the lore of Doom I have no idea.

 

The buff totems are a terrible idea too - it's always in the same place, so it's just a case of wandering around and dying a few times until you find it, and then going straight there to destroy it next time. Really weird attempt at adding modifiers to the combat.

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I think this is a really fair look at it, pointing out some of the ehhhhhhhh Doomguy=God stuff involved. Spoilers if you care about the story, for some reason.

 

 

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I’ve just had some of the most intense and incredible arena fights I’ve ever had in any fps. It’s just nuts and super intense, trying to survive and priority assess everything. 
 

I honestly can’t believe, like seriously can not believe some of the opinion on here.

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3 hours ago, Moz said:

I dunno man. I'm playing on ultraviolence and it's just kind of boring. You watch your meters at the bottom and press the button that makes whichever meter go back up when you need to. You've effectively got infinite ammo/health/armor as long as you keep moving. I'm only really dying when an enemy spawns right on top of me and traps me in a corner or something like that. It's intense, sure. But it's so one-note. I fundamentally don't like the system where every gun has two modes, it's annoying in the flow of combat. Just give me half as many firing modes that are more specialised and make me switch between them to kill specific enemies more effectively. As it is, you occasionally switch to the energy rifle thing to pop a shield and that's about it. I forget I've got half the weapons as I don't use the weapon wheel (number keys baybeee). Likewise both grenades and the flamebelch don't feel great to use - I'd rather just combine them into a single grenade or get rid of them entirely, I think I've used the freeze grenade about three times.


What the fuck?

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4 hours ago, BoggyB said:

I think this is a really fair look at it, pointing out some of the ehhhhhhhh Doomguy=God stuff involved. Spoilers if you care about the story, for some reason.

 

 

 

Oh god, I've been trying to resist buying this until it's dirt cheap because it sounds like they've fucked around with the formula too much, but Civvie is always spot on with his fps reviews. What to do!

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Yeah that's a really good review. Gets into the good and the bad, and he seems to have had the same up-and-down-and-back-up-again relationship with the game at the exact same points that I did. Glad he called out some of the cringe as well, this is what happens when you try to pander to reddit meme-makers.

 

Think I'm going to give the master levels a crack today. The combat is definitely best-in-class.

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On 31/03/2020 at 00:00, PK said:

 

Oh god, I've been trying to resist buying this until it's dirt cheap because it sounds like they've fucked around with the formula too much, but Civvie is always spot on with his fps reviews. What to do!

 

Sell a load CS:GO skins and buy it for £8 was what to do.

 

~5 hours in and it's alright, but it's not as good as the 2016 game. It's still fun, and juggling everything on Ultra Violence is a nicely challenging pain in the arse so far, but I'm amazed that this is by the same team as the previous one. It reminds me of playing a Quake mod; it feels great because it's built on the same basic game, but the gameplay additions are gimmicky, it looks garish and the tone is all wrong. But it's alright!

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Pre-ordered this as one of my rare full price, day one games as I devoured doom 2016. Stuck it on and got pretty bad motion sickness, which I didn’t get a hint of in the previous game. Absolutely heart broken, I was really looking forward to it. I can’t even sell it right now. Curse my stupid brain. 

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I’ve only popped into this thread here and there just to see if folk ended up liking this game. I’m not invested in the series at all, never played the originals growing up, but have always quite fancied Doom 2016 because of great word of mouth. I’ve since bought it cheap on PS4 with some left over credit, so it’s been added to the pile.

 

What strikes me about Eternal is the weird schism between players’ and critics’ opinions. Games sites have been going bananas over it, really praising everything about it as far as I can tell, yet the odd peak in this thread that I’ve had suggests fans are actually disappointed with it. Why’s that happening? 

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It's fucking brilliant. 

 

The only gripe I have is that it's year 2130 or something and there are buses and cars with wheels that just look like the vehicles of today. 

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2 hours ago, Calashnikov said:

What strikes me about Eternal is the weird schism between players’ and critics’ opinions. Games sites have been going bananas over it, really praising everything about it as far as I can tell, yet the odd peak in this thread that I’ve had suggests fans are actually disappointed with it. Why’s that happening? 

 

Yeah it's an interesting gulf of opinion. The Metacritic user reviews (I know!) seem to generally all be centered around there being too many new systems, too many distractions from running and gunning, and too many breaks in the action. I think I'd probably agree with that sentiment, they've layered a lot of stuff on top of the previous game.

 

The 2016 game straddled the old & new perfectly, but I think this one feels very much like a current, console-centric game - it's all about queuing and prioritising various mechanics to create a flow of movement in stages, rather than just running around the level at 100mph shooting stuff with your favourite guns like it's 1996. And that sort of thing is great for people who enjoy it, but you can't ignore those mechanics in the new game to the extent that you could in the 2016 one, so if that sort of event-queuing gameplay is not your bag, you're not really going to have that much fun because it's clearly how they want you to play it.

 

I wonder if people in the games press are just more used to that type of gameplay, I can't imagine anyone enjoying being a games reviewer in 2020 if they weren't.

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Aside from all that guff though there are some fucking baffling design decisions in this, like having a video pop up just before they introduce a new enemy or boss, showing you exactly how to kill them.

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One of, if not the most baffling decision they made when creating this game, and God knows there are loads, was having weak spots on run of the mill enemies, with the rest of their body having some sort of invulnerability layer.
 

Like, it’s as if they wanted every enemy other than a grunt to be a mini boss. Why would they do that? It’s not more fun. It’s just harder. Maybe that was the point?
 

By all means, they could create this game, call it “No Ammo No Health Jumpy Climby Really Hard Shooter 2020” or something. But they shouldn’t pretend this is a direct sequel to the 2016 game in anything other than name. Can we get refunds on digital purchases on PSN?

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Yeah, I think Doom 2016 worked on multiple levels for multiple people.

 

It was a smart update to a classic, a throwback in terms of level design and pickups but also modern in terms of gameplay and mechanics. You could either play it as a mindless blaster or crank up the difficultly and be forced to engage with the systems underneath. This strips away all of that, it's a game that's been explicitly designed for people who enjoyed 'high level' play of the original, and it literally forces you to engage with it that way on all difficulties.

 

Thing is, Doom Eternal is very good on those terms. The combat is excellent if you give it enough time to click. But it's not accessible in the slightest, and in addition every other aspect of the game has suffered in relation. The level design is now super linear, the subversive self-aware sense of humour replaced with awkward fan-service cringe.

 

If all you wanted from a new Doom game was more combat, then this is mechanically the better game. But one of the reasons I loved Doom 2016 was that it managed to successfully pull off a lot more than just that.

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If this had a 'From Software' logo on the box everyone moaning about the difficulty and the need to 'git gud' would be making a mess of their pants at the same.

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28 minutes ago, PC Master Race said:

If this had a 'From Software' logo on the box everyone moaning about the difficulty and the need to 'git gud' would be making a mess of their pants at the same.

 

It's basically a first person mashup of Ninja Gaiden 2 and Devil May Cry. Completely peerless mechanically, nobody else is even attempt anything similar.

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Having come from wolfenstein 2 I hear “baffling design” and it instantly rings true to everything I just experienced in wolfenstein.

 

Theres definitely a lot of talent at Bathesda but there someone somewhere putting a lot of spanners where spanner’s don’t need to be.

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1 hour ago, CarloOos said:

It was a smart update to a classic, a throwback in terms of level design and pickups but also modern in terms of gameplay and mechanics. You could either play it as a mindless blaster or crank up the difficultly and be forced to engage with the systems underneath.

 

I do think the critical thing is you could play it all the way up to Nightmare without engaging with those systems, if you really wanted to, but they've completely removed the option to do that in this one. So if you like their gameplay systems you're going to have a blast, but if not then it's not going to grab you like the previous one.

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7 hours ago, Calashnikov said:

I’ve only popped into this thread here and there just to see if folk ended up liking this game. I’m not invested in the series at all, never played the originals growing up, but have always quite fancied Doom 2016 because of great word of mouth. I’ve since bought it cheap on PS4 with some left over credit, so it’s been added to the pile.

 

What strikes me about Eternal is the weird schism between players’ and critics’ opinions. Games sites have been going bananas over it, really praising everything about it as far as I can tell, yet the odd peak in this thread that I’ve had suggests fans are actually disappointed with it. Why’s that happening? 

 

Most of the game buying public and especially most of the audience for single player FPS are terrible at games and just want to be told a story with interludes of hiding behind cover and unloading into cannon fodder AI. See: Titanfall II, Wolfenstein II, any COD campaign.

 

Or more diplomatically, the expectation these days is to have a 'fully rounded package' (plot, puzzles, crafting, vehicles etc.) which Doom Eternal very much isn't interested in being.

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I do have to say, that even though it was quite enjoyable, I do not understand the gushing administration towards Titanfall 2’s campaign. 
 

Its pretttyyy pretttyyyy... pretty good! 
 

Doom Eternal on the other hand is complete fucking nuts and a seriously intense ride. By far stilling up top as my current GOTY. 

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