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Halo Infinite - OUT NOW - no campaign spoilers pls


Wallace
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34 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

BTB and Firefight which they added like a year after launch, Forge too I think? It never had [splitscreen, thanks frodo] co-op, as the title of the thread on here mentions.

 

No problem, how come you haven't also corrected the factual inaccuracies in the first sentence that I also pointed out?

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13 minutes ago, Benny said:

You were talking about how "nobody was playing" the multiplayer the other day, based on anecdotal evidence, when the actual hard evidence was that it had attracted a quarter million Steam players.

  

Sure, I was wrong on that and I'll own up to it. It was more a comment that I didn't really see people talking about or playing the F2P multiplayer much on Twitch, or outside of trad Halo communities, I didn't know there were figures out there (I am surprised they haven't released any figures on how the game has done though, I mean I'm not saying it hasn't done well, but Forza was updating us with how many millions were playing on GamePass in the first week every time they hit a milestone, with this nada)

 

7 minutes ago, metallicfrodo said:

No problem, how come you haven't also corrected the factual inaccuracies in the first sentence that I also pointed out?

 

My post was those modes weren't there at launch and they were added over the next year, you agreed that they weren't there at launch and were added over the next year, what's to correct?

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On 12/12/2021 at 10:37, Uncle Nasty said:

 

I'd really like to understand how this game feels so unfinished and threadbare. Everything is undercooked and half-assed.

 

This is the work of 750 people over six years. I can't understand how that adds up to what we're playing. Once you've been in the open world for an hour you've seen absolutely everything the game has to offer. There are so many re-used assets strewn around the world that it feel like a rough mockup or a demo. There's no visual storytelling or sense of past events happening  in the world.

 

The Spartan Cores being left lying around to just pickup feels very last minute and rushed. Any other game would have heavily guarded these  with enemies or hidden them inside bases, so that retrieving them was an event and an achievement. Here they're accurately pinpointed on your map allowing you to just stroll up and collect them. What are these things anyway and why are they in the world?

 

Same with fast travel. The way they implemented this again says rush job. They didn't even bother to call it Spartan Warp or anything. Just call up the map anywhere and warp to a base by hitting "Fast Travel" - it's so weak. Look at how Dark Souls handled fast travel and how meaningful it was. Here it's 343 acknowledging that slogging around this empty map is a bore.

 

For a sci-fi game there's nothing imaginative or exotic about anything in this world. Everything is mundane, basic and obvious. I really miss the sense of wonder and discovery  previous Halos had. Here I'm poking around scrap yards and nondescript bases, exposing cores and pulling switches. Boring hardware like mining lasers. It's just so bottom of the barrel, predictable and boring. The lack of any variation whatsoever in the entire game is unforgivable and I'm astonished that 343 are getting a relatively free pass for it. It's so basic and rough.

 

The combat is good but there are definitely problems with the AI. The Marines are incredibly stiff and take a lot longer to respond when you're waiting for them to get in a Warthog, for example, than they should. Enemy AI gets confused at distance and will stand there ranting at you whilst you're headshotting them. Elites are especially weak in this and not the intimidating, almost human level of challenge enemy that they once were.

 

When people were saying Infinite is Silent Cartographer: The Game I expected epic Halo moments and cinematic set pieces, but there is none of that sense of scale or powerfully iconic, memorable level design.

 

Little things like the animation of the Weapon when she walks from the Chief's hand, it just feels janky and did that animation have to be same every time? The horribly unintuitive equipment switching and grenade switching, what were they thinking with this? The loading screen after every death, in a Halo?

 

Overall the best bits of this game (talking campaign only) were designed by Bungie 20 years ago and hardly anything added by 343 has added any meaningful value or interest to the series.

 

So whilst the core combat is good the rest of the game is a pointless mess and clearly points to bad decision making and taking the game completely the wrong direction. Open world was a terrible idea considering how little imagination, flair, and technical ability 343 have demonstrated.

 

Very disappointing.

 

This. I was playing the game this morning and just not enjoying myself much. It also keeps asking me to buy the campaign when I turn my machine on and boots me out of whatever mission I was on. 

 

Also, as an old git with slowing reflexes, its far harder than all the other Halo's - I play them all on normal and am struggling with this a lot on easy.

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8 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

 

 

My post was those modes weren't there at launch and they were added over the next year, you agreed that they weren't there at launch and were added over the next year, what's to correct?

 

Quote

which they added like a like a year after launch

Is not, 'added over the next year' and don't claim it is. You very specifically claimed that you were of the belief that it was pretty much an entire year until they were launched. I mean you were wrong, it's fine to admit that. You can claim that it doesn't matter and that the difference between a year and 3 weeks (which is the actual length to the launch of BTB) is immaterial if you want. You can also continue to ignore the fact that they added a completely new game mode (Warzone) that Halo had never seen before. Although I suppose seeing as you say you have never played it I suppose it isn't a surprise that you don't know these things.

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Because there is a suggestion that they just didn't have all that stuff at launch and there was nothing else to show for it, like you just had everything taken away and nothing was given, regardless of your opinion of why the extra mode was there. It was obvious that a lot of work had gone into it.

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I've hit an interesting bug today. An "upgrade complete" message has been stuck on screen even through cutscenes ever since I unlocked one of the upgrades about 30 minutes ago.

 

Otherwise though, I've found the experience pretty much bug free, but it does seem like I'm blasting through the campaign quite quickly so far compared to say Assassins Creed Odyssey which I've been playing since the summer ad sill have no end in sight.

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1 hour ago, Benny said:

It's not like the game is beyond criticism, and I've been pointing out the flaws with the game in the thread quite a few times. I think it's a stretch to call any positivity defensive or nostalgic though.

 

This game is getting away with a lot thanks to nostalgia though. Imagine how it would've been received if it was a new franchise and the Grunt chatter and OST weren't firmly pressing the nostalgia button. It'd be getting kicked to death in reviews and then ignored. It would never get a sniff at a sequel, let alone a ten year support plan.


I keep thinking of other aspects that indicate a lack of polish and care. That weird loading screen image where the post processing bloom effect crudely jumps in.

The fact that it has loading screens at all after death. The way you can't filter map icons to only show incomplete objectives. Not being able to rotate the map to see the elevation of objectives. It really bugs me that Fast Travel is named just that and no rationale is given for your ability to just warp around the map from anywhere. That to me tells a story of a design crisis that they couldn't solve elegantly. Maybe you should've been able to call in a Pelican to drop off a vehicle a limited number of times rather than teleporting everywhere. There's no explanation or reason for this superpower.

 

I don't even think the combat is as solid as it used to be. On Legendary a couple of Grunts, a Jackal and a single Elite used to be enough of a challenge to keep you busy for potentially hours. Here they try to overwhelm you with numbers as the AI just isn't as smart or aggressive as it used to be. It's more about fighting big waves of enemies rather than tightly organised smaller packs. Enemies tend to rush you which is just too easy to counter with the grapple shock, and I always seem to have a full set of every grenades if needed. Beyond that you can usually escape to an area where the enemies can't track and follow you, but they're still be in targetting distance of the excessively long range of the Battle Rifle. Pew pew.

 

The open world really fucked this game.

 

 

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2 hours ago, El Spatula said:

I think my issue is that essentially once you've done the Tower mission you've seen everything the game has to offer. 

 

The combat is good yes, but it's the same bloody enemies we've been shooting for years with mostly the same weapons and mostly the same vehicles. It's nicked a grappling hook from a bunch of other games though.

 

I suspect if this wasn't mostly being played on Game Pass the backlash would be greater 

 

This is my issue with it. I had about 10 hours or so of fun with it last weekend but have not had any desire to go back since. 

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343 have made three mainline Halo entries, two of which have been extremely technically polished but divisive in gameplay terms. The development of their own engine has clearly led to a torturous production for Infinite, but the idea that 343’s previous track record is that of incompetent jank is total revisionism.
 

Halo 4 looked like actual magic on the 360, and still looks better than most last-gen games upscaled. Halo 5 squeezed out Microsoft’s overly ambitious promise for 1080/60 from completely underpowered hardware, and still managed to look good and deliver huge battle scenes. If anything those battles are too large and it’s not much fun to actually play, but the technical aspects aren’t the issue with it.

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39 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

Halo 5 squeezed out Microsoft’s overly ambitious promise for 1080/60 from completely underpowered hardware.

 

I mean it didn't, wasn't it dynamic resolution in the end? And enemies at 30fps.

 

It's like how the early footage of Halo Infinite was excused by "it's fine, it's 60fps on Xbox One with 4-player splitscreen co-op", and then the game launches and it's 30fps and there's no co-op in sight. 343 fail to reach these targets they set out and yet they're treated as if they achieved them anyway.

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‘Their own engine’ is the Bungie Halo engine with go faster stripes. The same as everytime Bethesda say Fallout/Elder Scrolls has a ‘new’ engine. Said engine was one of the reasons it was in development hell because it’s so unwieldy at this point with tech debt. It was in the Bloomberg article.

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42 minutes ago, Strafe said:

I thought the tech debt referred to the tools they use. Maybe that’s the same thing.


I may have misread it, it’s not entirely clear in the article. My reading was that it was a fork of the old Bungie engine, same as Destiny is. Explains some of the legacy bugs  from old Halo games that are in Infinite.

 

Quote

Video games are built using software tools called gaming engines. The engine used to build Halo was one that 343 had based largely on old code from Bungie. Parts of the engine, a set of tools called Faber, became infamous at the studio for being buggy and difficult to use. Within engineering, there’s a concept known as “tech debt,” which refers to problems one puts up with because the previous programmers of a system chose quick, easy solutions over more sustainable ones. Faber’s code, some of which dated to the early 2000s, had so much debt that some 343 engineers mockingly referred to its “tech bankruptcy.”


He also tweeted that the engine was such a state they gave serious consideration to jacking it in and switching to Unreal halfway through development.

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2 hours ago, Uncle Nasty said:

 

This game is getting away with a lot thanks to nostalgia though. Imagine how it would've been received if it was a new franchise and the Grunt chatter and OST weren't firmly pressing the nostalgia button. It'd be getting kicked to death in reviews and then ignored. It would never get a sniff at a sequel, let alone a ten year support plan.


I keep thinking of other aspects that indicate a lack of polish and care. That weird loading screen image where the post processing bloom effect crudely jumps in.

The fact that it has loading screens at all after death. The way you can't filter map icons to only show incomplete objectives. Not being able to rotate the map to see the elevation of objectives. It really bugs me that Fast Travel is named just that and no rationale is given for your ability to just warp around the map from anywhere. That to me tells a story of a design crisis that they couldn't solve elegantly. Maybe you should've been able to call in a Pelican to drop off a vehicle a limited number of times rather than teleporting everywhere. There's no explanation or reason for this superpower.

 

The open world really fucked this game.

 

 


“there are loading screens (to, you know, load back the dynamic checkpointed saved state at the point you die, rather than just skip to a checkpointed state already entirely defined as part of the games code”

“fast travel just happens and doesn’t have a fully coherent and animated in world set of transition screens”

”you can’t rotate the map”

 

have you ever played an open world game before?

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On 14/12/2021 at 14:36, Girth Certificate said:

That's the crazy thing. Millions of dollars in character modelling and voice acting and the marines still mean fuckall compared to the first few named soldiers in Cannon Fodder. 


that said I was pretty devastated when the 5 man squad I’d been tooling around with all day got annihilated by a big fuckoff laser :(

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3 hours ago, Harsin said:

That shitty jpeg loading screen is so bizarre. Surely they have loads of nice key art they could use, but instead someone looked at that shitty pic and went 'Yes, that's the one we want our players to spend hours looking at!'.


Even windows has a slideshow screensaver option they could’ve nicked.

 

It shouldn’t even exist in a bunch of places mind

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5 minutes ago, spanx said:

Beat those twin Spartan killer bastards. Fudging hell that was not an easy fight. Think I’m going to return to mopping up FOBs for a couple of hours as a palate cleanser before continuing with the story :)

I blood loved that fight. I got in there with a pistol and a sword, which is a complete waste of time for those guys on Heroic. I had to properly grapple around and thin out the crowd with them, using the drop walls, the threat sensor and obviously not the thruster because who the fuck uses the Thruster when you can just grapple away? I slowly picked the baddies apart while avoiding the bosses but I knew eventually my pistol would run out of ammo and I've have to find something to actually do some damage to the big bads. 

I dropped down and took out a couple of elites and eventually discovered a flipped warthog. Hurrah! I unflipped it, jumped on the back and fully decimated the Ravager bastard's shields. My car blew up so I dropped a wall and pelted at him with grenades. Eventually he exploded so I grappled over, grabbed his sentinel beam and took down his mate. 

 

All of that was emergent and due to the fact 343 have made a great big open Halo in a great big open world. There were so many different ways I could have dealt with them but it ended it a really fun encounter in which I used the whole environment. 

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54 minutes ago, BitterToad said:

I blood loved that fight. I got in there with a pistol and a sword, which is a complete waste of time for those guys on Heroic. I had to properly grapple around and thin out the crowd with them, using the drop walls, the threat sensor and obviously not the thruster because who the fuck uses the Thruster when you can just grapple away? I slowly picked the baddies apart while avoiding the bosses but I knew eventually my pistol would run out of ammo and I've have to find something to actually do some damage to the big bads. 

I dropped down and took out a couple of elites and eventually discovered a flipped warthog. Hurrah! I unflipped it, jumped on the back and fully decimated the Ravager bastard's shields. My car blew up so I dropped a wall and pelted at him with grenades. Eventually he exploded so I grappled over, grabbed his sentinel beam and took down his mate. 

 

All of that was emergent and due to the fact 343 have made a great big open Halo in a great big open world. There were so many different ways I could have dealt with them but it ended it a really fun encounter in which I used the whole environment. 


Best bit of the game that.
 

Was an amazing fight and I tried a few different approaches, having a great time before the ghost gave them a (admittedly anti-climatic) end.
 

Pretty much downhill from there though, with the game forcing you down dull, repeated corridors and embarrassing Cortana shit.
 

My heart sank every time I saw the shape of a missing power seed.

 

But what a great time that first half of the game was.

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2 hours ago, spanx said:

Beat those twin Spartan killer bastards. Fudging hell that was not an easy fight. Think I’m going to return to mopping up FOBs for a couple of hours as a palate cleanser before continuing with the story :)


I also enjoyed this fight in the end by thinking more strategically… well kinda. I stayed far away and thinned out all the adds in a loop around the fight area.

 

Then I lured the guy in the vehicle and stole it off him then just blasted him to death with it (those vehicles are heavily armoured from the front). Once I was done with him I got up close and personal with his friend, plasma-ing his shield down and then following up with lots of grapple melee 👊.

 

The next bit of the game with the towers feels like you have to follow the story but you’re actually free to steal a Banshee and just fly around and do more HVTs and FOBs - which is what I’m doing now.

 

I guess clearly the corridor ending is because they just ran out of time / money after the strong first 2/3rds.

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Done on Legendary. Thoroughly enjoyed it and I suppose it'll be a nice refresher to play it coop at some point in the future. Probably the second easiest Halo campaign out the lot after Halo 4 for me, but definitely one of the most enjoyable with the amount of options available. 

 

Now playing Ranked Arena with HCS on the other screen 😅

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