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Halo Infinite - OUT NOW - no campaign spoilers pls


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7 hours ago, Jamie John said:

Question: according to the map there is a Spartan core at the top of the tower (or that's where the waypoint appears when you highlight it, anyway). I grappled all the way up there but could only find 

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The Craig's Tour Easter egg, which was funny, and the secret skull. No Spartan Core, although it still appears on the map as being unfound.

 

Did I miss it? I went back inside the tower too with the big gravity lift, but it's not there. I've had a few bugs so far, so it could just be that.

I had the exact same problem! It's bugged and should be... 

Spoiler

... somewhere underneath where the icon is on your map, at ground level. Get underneath and have a good roam around, listen for the audio clues.

 

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11 hours ago, Flanders said:

Which technically means Halo Infinite is this gen’s Shadow of Mordor, but that just makes me think how Halo would really suit a Nemesis system…


The thought of a Nemesis type system sounds great theory 

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I wasn't expecting much here tbh but I'm really enjoying the campaign here. I'm about 4 "bosses" in and generally like the grapple mechanic and open world style. The graphics are really stunning (PC) - great draw distance and textures. 

 

All in all a welcome surprise for me.

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I’m in the house of reckoning and really don’t want to go back to play it. 
 

Spoiler

I’m doing the second “training” area and despite how hilarious these little diorama training areas are, I don’t know how many more there’s going to be and presumably I need to kill at least Escahrim and the Harbinger before I’m done. Both I imagine will be no fun at all. Oh, and the evil Elite who stole my pet pilot.


The linear bits of this campaign are just miserable and remind me of the worst of Halo 5. 

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12 hours ago, Mystacon said:


I agree, it does seem quite harsh, but I honestly believe that’s what they’ll be thinking. It’s quite obvious that somewhere along the line something went very wrong and they needed to scale back or maybe even scrap their original vision. It wouldn’t surprise me if they pretty much started from scratch a few years ago.

 

Like I said in my previous post, if this came out in 2018, three years after Halo 5, I’d be more inclined to turn a blind eye and just say it’s not for me, but here we are 6 years down the road and a rumoured $500 million dollars spent, and what we’ve ended up with, in my opinion, is a very average title.

 

It does tie into my theory that MS can’t manage talented developers.  Bungie driven to leave. These guys wasted years. Rare was wasted for a generation. Lionhead closed. only the forza lot seem to have done well out of it.
 

it’s why the Bethesda purchase was actually about getting zenimax or whatever  the parent company is called. They are excellent dev managers and they need those skills. 

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47 minutes ago, LaveDisco said:

 

It does tie into my theory that MS can’t manage talented developers.  Bungie driven to leave. These guys wasted years. Rare was wasted for a generation. Lionhead closed. only the forza lot seem to have done well out of it.
 

it’s why the Bethesda purchase was actually about getting zenimax or whatever  the parent company is called. They are excellent dev managers and they need those skills. 


They're certainly not getting the return on investment you'd expect from a massive studio the size of 343 Industries. They have 750 employees! Here's how that compares to some other AAA studios.


DICE - 714
Rockstar North - 650
Treyarch - 626
Naughty Dog - 569

Eidos Montreal - 500

Infinity Ward - 444

Playground Games - 400

Respawn - 315

Insomniac - 275

iD - 250

Rocksteady - 245

 

Now all of the above rely heavily on support studies and outsourcing. But then so does 343, if you watch the credits of Halo Infinite a good half of it is other studios.

 

 

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I think (hope) this has been a big lesson for MS. The article posted a bit back detailing the problems they’ve had with the development reveal a lot, especially where they talk about half the staff being contract and they can’t stay for longer than 18 months, which isn’t conducive to making these vast AAA titles. That paired with a bespoke engine that’s difficult to use, the problems become apparent.

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I do too, but it's also been ten years and 343's last several Halo games have come out either fucked (MCC), or in this early access state where they have to trickle features the old ones had in over the next year (Halo 5), Infinite is kinda both. They've had plenty of time to recognise and fix the problem and yet here we are.

 

Microsoft will never stop making Halo, the old fans will never stop buying Halo even as the titles become increasingly bad and outdated. Xbox want it to be so high profile and will throw all this marketing money at it, but I don't think it can change that it's in serious decline, I mean it's already an irrelevant series to anyone under 30.

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I think it's deficient in way more things than it's proficient in:

 

Good:

  • Combat loop (against most enemies)

Bad

  • Barebones open world
  • Crap story missions/asset reuse
  • Bosses
  • Bugs (just had a crash to desktop during a multi-stage bossfight on legendary and the mid-phase saves don't work it makes you start from the beginning again)
  • Terrible writing
  • Missing features

 

Like maybe that top one is worth more than some of the things on the bottom, but I absolutely would not recommend this to people who like shooters. I'd recommend Titanfall 2 or Doom 2016, but no one but longterm series fans is going to care for this game.

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30 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

I do too, but it's also been ten years and 343's last several Halo games have come out either fucked (MCC), or in this early access state where they have to trickle features the old ones had in over the next year (Halo 5), Infinite is kinda both. 


What features did Halo 5 launch without? I don’t even like it but remember it being polished at launch. Halo 4 was also exceptionally polished. 
 

The multiplayer aspect of MCC was a dogs dinner but the individual ports themselves were good, particularly the Halo 2 port which I believe 343 were responsible for. 

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9 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

I think it's deficient in way more things than it's proficient in:

 

Good:

Combat loop (against most enemies)

 

Bad

Barebones open world

Crap story missions/asset reuse

Bugs (just had a crash to desktop during a multi-stage bossfight on legendary and the mid-phase saves don't work it makes you start from the beginning again)

Terrible writing

Missing features

 

Like maybe that top one is worth more than some of the things on the bottom, but I absolutely would not recommend this to people who like shooters. I'd recommend Titanfall 2 or Doom 2016, but no one but longterm series fans is going to care for this game.

That combat loop definitely makes up, and exceeds for me, all the things in your bad list though. Plus, that combat loop is head and shoulders above Titanfall 2 or Doom. What 343/MS need to do is employ a solid core of people who know how to deliver such a big title. If they got that in place, along with the amazing combat, then I'm sure they could give us something really special.

 

I suppose we'll see how it pans out from here, as we're stuck with this for the next 10 years apparently.

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8 minutes ago, CarloOos said:


What features did Halo 5 launch without? I don’t even like it but remember it being polished at launch. Halo 4 was also exceptionally polished. 
 

The multiplayer aspect of MCC was a dogs dinner but the individual ports themselves were good, particularly the Halo 2 port which I believe 343 were responsible for. 


Halo 2 port was entirely handled by Sabre interactive, although with Cutscenes from Blur studios. 
 

I was at the time, at one of the studios who handled a portion of it. 

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I think I’m now on the final mission and I think over half the campaign is past a point of no return?! I’m pretty sure I’ve played like 6 or 7 missions that give you no option to take a break in between.

 

It feels like this mish mash was a result of loads of different factions all vying for the bits of halo that they think really need to be in there. In the Gameplay department, you’ve got your Shit Boss Division, your Linear/Cinematic Campaign Crew and the dangerous upstarts in the Open World Team, who, even if it didn’t all pan out and had to be scaled back, have saved the day, despite the dirty looks they got from everyone else.

 

Then the writers room had the Big Mystery faction, who thought this needed to be a story about the Forerunners and the Relatable Characters crew, who tried to make Escharum a tragic hero and the whole Pilot thing work. Sadly, both groups were overshadowed by the most vocal group, which seem to be the writers who just really want to f*** cortana.

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1 hour ago, CarloOos said:

What features did Halo 5 launch without? I don’t even like it but remember it being polished at launch. Halo 4 was also exceptionally polished. 

 

BTB and Firefight which they added over the next year, Forge too I think? It never had [splitscreen, thanks frodo] co-op, as the title of the thread on here mentions. It had the smallest number of maps and gamemodes in the series. It didn't have any social modes at launch, you were ranked in everything and people could get outside of every map in multiplayer (because they added all the movement stuff after designing the maps) and kill you from outside the bounds where you couldn't get to them and it would tank your rank.

 

It had a weird aiming bug caused by the cache and they never fixed it, I recall watching a bit of their million dollar eSports prize and players are banging out this button combo every five seconds on stream to clear the cache so their aim doesn't get fucked up and get them killed and the announcer is just plainly explaining what they're doing as if it's normal for a massive high profile game to have the fundamental gameplay mechanic of aiming not work and players have to work around that.

 

Like I never even played the game (because it's not on PC), but it's clear people were really trying to talk it up and be a bit revisionist to avoid acknowledging the series they were invested in was dogwater now, we even had that in this thread where people were saying this was "a great correct course after the terrible Halo 5" and then someone comes in and points out they're contradicting the narrative. 

 

58 minutes ago, JPL said:

That combat loop definitely makes up, and exceeds for me, all the things in your bad list though. Plus, that combat loop is head and shoulders above Titanfall 2 or Doom.

 

I don't really think it's fit to lick the boots of those.

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1 minute ago, Kevvy Metal said:


Halo 2 port was entirely handled by Sabre interactive, although with Cutscenes from Blur studios. 
 

I was at the time, at one of the studios who handled a portion of it. 

 

I did wonder, I knew Sabre did the original CE remaster on 360 but didn't think they'd done the (much better) Halo 2 remaster. I thought they did the 3 & 4 ports.

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1 minute ago, RubberJohnny said:

I don't really think it's fit to lick the boots of those

You’re probably asking the wrong person to be honest, because Halo has always been the pinnacle of FPS gameplay for me. CE is still my favourite game of all time because of it.

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33 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

I think it's deficient in way more things than it's proficient in:

 

Good:

Combat loop (against most enemies)

 

Bad

Barebones open world

Crap story missions/asset reuse

Bugs (just had a crash to desktop during a multi-stage bossfight on legendary and the mid-phase saves don't work it makes you start from the beginning again)

Terrible writing

Missing features

 

Like maybe that top one is worth more than some of the things on the bottom, but I absolutely would not recommend this to people who like shooters. I'd recommend Titanfall 2 or Doom 2016, but no one but longterm series fans is going to care for this game.


I find this game to be so much more fun that Titanfall 2 or Doom 2016 because it is just so much more fun to play.
The “open” world adds so much variety to the encounters that I could just play it endlessly. It’s also not much of an open world and more a series of open sectors with absolutely enough variety. 
 

The rest is all quite subjective and I’m absolutely enjoying the quips between Weapon and Chief, and there’s enough of a story to push it all forwards. 

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I enjoyed the actual game part of Halo Infinite while I was in the open world more than I liked the combat of Titanfall 2. But when things get stuck in corridors I'd much rather be playing that game as it knows how to do a good set piece.

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Anyway, I've been watching a bit of the current eSports one too, and that's also been unintentionally hilarious. They discovered their spectator mode they were using was riddled with bugs and causing matches to disconnect, so they ended up doing the whole event from one of the guys streaming setup, proper amateur hour stuff.

 

Then they're not getting enough views, so they pay a bunch of streamers to restream it and do commentary, and give people a free skin if they tune in to try and reach a wider audience and convert them into players. Except all the streamers are just visibly bored and uninterested by the whole thing, doing the bare minimum for the money, trashing the game, reassuring their audience that they're going back to Warzone straight afterwards, etc. And the game is riddled with technical issues still and crashing regularly mid-game, so it's not even a good showcase.

 

There's just this sad energy over everything, Halo is the Alan Partridge of the gaming industry.

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16 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

 It never had co-op,

It never had split screen but it launched with 4 player online co-op. In fact the main problem with the game was that it seemed entirely designed around co-op.

 

16 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

BTB and Firefight which they added like a year after launch, Forge too I think?

But it did launch with a completely new mode in Warzone which was their take on combining BTB and Firefight. BTB was a month after launch, forge 2 months and the firefight version of Warzone was added 8 months after launch.

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I think my issue is that essentially once you've done the Tower mission you've seen everything the game has to offer. 

 

The combat is good yes, but it's the same bloody enemies we've been shooting for years with mostly the same weapons and mostly the same vehicles. It's nicked a grappling hook from a bunch of other games though.

 

I suspect if this wasn't mostly being played on Game Pass the backlash would be greater 

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23 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

BTB and Firefight which they added like a year after launch, Forge too I think? It never had co-op, as the title of the thread on here mentions. It had the smallest number of maps and gamemodes in the series. It didn't have any social modes at launch, you were ranked in everything and people could get outside of every map in multiplayer (because they added all the movement stuff after designing the maps) and kill you from outside the bounds where you couldn't get to them and it would tank your rank.

 

It had a weird aiming bug caused by the cache and they never fixed it, I recall watching a bit of their million dollar eSports prize and players are banging out this button combo every five seconds on stream to clear the cache so their aim doesn't get fucked up and get them killed and the announcer is just plainly explaining what they're doing as if it's normal for a massive high profile game to have the fundamental gameplay mechanic of aiming not work and players have to work around that.

 

Like I never even played the game (because it's not on PC), but it's clear people were really trying to talk it up and be a bit revisionist to avoid acknowledging the series they were invested in was dogwater now, we even had that in this thread where people were saying this was "a great correct course after the terrible Halo 5" and then someone comes in and points out they're contradicting the narrative. 

 

 

I don't really think it's fit to lick the boots of those.

 

I think you're being more revisionist than anyone else here. Halo 5's campaign was (rightfully) widely derided at launch, but the multiplayer was seen as a breakout success. It launched with a variety of new modes, Warzone was their BTB/Firefight replacement. That they later added dedicated BTB/Firefight modes a year later doesn't retroactively make them cut content.

 

You've had your colours nailed to the mast of Infinite being a total disaster for the past year and a half, and now that it's out (and has been generally warmly received) it feels like you're somewhat desperately trying to justify being Right All Along™. It's like you're trying to gaslight everyone in the thread that the game they're literally playing and enjoying is actually shit, when it's clearly not.

 

Nobody is claiming it's perfect. It could, and should, have been more ambitious given the resources, sure. But what they actually released is still fun, and the standard PvE combat loop remains best-in-class. Trying to argue that it's just nostalgia talking seems like nonsense to me.

 

I hope they continue to build on what they've delivered. I suspect in a couple of years time the game will look very different.

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I also feel quite disappointed with this as a whole. I have always adored the Halo games as I just love that combat loop so much. My pattern with the campaigns of these games was play through it once on Heroic and then right back in for a Legendary play through. Even with the weaker campaigns. But with Infinite I was actively trying to get it 'over and done with' and just ground out the last few hours so I could move on to something else. It's even tainted how much I was loving the multiplayer.

 

I'm pretty gutted by all of this, to be honest. I had really been looking forward to it.

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7 minutes ago, Benny said:

I think most of the sad energy I'm getting at the moment is how ruthlessly you're making it your mission to trash what is a mostly fun game, with a really great multiplayer. Extending it to trashing games in the series you haven't played either is making it look a bit axe grindy.

 

I used to be invested in the series, I'm not going to pretend it's good when it isn't though. It's like Pokemon, used to love those games, they're rubbish now, proper low-rent annual-releases. I'm not going to get all defensive and nostalgic over them, criticising something you used to like is y'know, liberating.

 

Quote

I think most of the sad energy I'm getting at the moment is how ruthlessly you're making it your mission to trash what is a mostly fun game, with a really great multiplayer. Extending it to trashing games in the series you haven't played either is making it look a bit axe grindy.

 

All the bugs I'm highlighting are real, they're being broadcast live to over 100,000 people.

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It's not like the game is beyond criticism, and I've been pointing out the flaws with the game in the thread quite a few times. I think it's a stretch to call any positivity defensive or nostalgic though. I also make it a point to actually play things I'm being critical about - why mention Halo 5 otherwise? I haven't played it either, so I have literally no opinion on it, and I'm not going to be using that game as a point of comparison when I literally can't use it as a frame of reference when arguing anything in good faith. You were talking about how "nobody was playing" the multiplayer the other day, based on anecdotal evidence, when the actual hard evidence was that it had attracted a quarter million Steam players. You see how that can come across as arguing in bad faith? I love good criticism, but has that been fair?

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