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Halo Infinite - OUT NOW - no campaign spoilers pls


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57 minutes ago, RJames said:

- How are you supposed to deal with Hunters? The enrage thing suggests you’re supposed to kill them simultaneously… but how? IIRC they used to have a charge mechanic where they took ages to recover and you can get behind them - that’s basically impossible now. I think you’re supposed to shoot their exposed kneecaps?! I did discover the needler actually works pretty well, as, of course, does the gravity hammer…

 

 

 

From range you can shoot their red exposed areas with the Battle Rifle or Sniper Rifle. Position yourself near to cover and just pop out and shoot between them firing back at you. Aim for the neck. You can't really do the classic Halo Hunter dance, sadly,

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Ah yes, that reminds me of another thing I really like about Halo combat - the enemies never really forget about you and reset when you pop behind a tree. You can get one ‘stealth’ kill and that’s about it. This kind of thing (especially in the otherwise excellent Arkane games) and especially stealth focused games always completely breaks the immersion. No one forgets being shot at 15 seconds later !

The hunters for example really do keep chasing you / trying to hunt you down / shoot you in what feels like moderately realistic ways.

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Yeah the Hunters are a nightmare on this, at least in the first Halo a rocket was a one-shot kill, now a single one will shrug off your entire ammo capacity of rockets and grenades and still be going. And the rapid fire attack can basically instant-kill you on Heroic or above and has no wind-up or telegraph you can react to, it's complete trial and error.

 

I found the Ravager the most effective tactic, unlike the multiplayer where it's useless it's actually a bit of a beast here.

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Of course you’ve also got the grappling hook as an convenient way of speeding up the hunter dance.

the most difficult fight I’ve had was with one of those heavily shielded brutes armed with a scrap cannon; when I had the equivalent of a pea shooter and an ineffectual plasma pistol.

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1 hour ago, RJames said:

Whilst I knew plasma weapons shredded shields, I had no idea they were ‘worse’ on health than kinetic ones. Maybe I do need to start trying the human weapons more.

 

The new Assault Rifle is pretty lethal and a good sub for the Battle rifle if your aim isn't as good as it was. The Commando gun has a real kick to it though.

 

As an aside, I enjoyed reading your long post above, I don't know if you haven't posted as much recently or if I've just not been in the same threads but it was good to see you around :) 

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1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

The boss - for me - are absolutely no problem and I'm surprised they would be thought of otherwise. They're basically your standard Halo enemies that live long enough for that Halo dynamic to become more obvious and brought to the forefront. I think they're a great addition, and do feel quite Destiny-like.  

 

Even 

 

Quote

Escheram?

Escheram has a one hit kill on him that means any tiny mistake is instant death, the fact he has soooooo much health just makes it a complete pain. His leap which takes him a stupid distance also isn't telegraphed, they are doable but they just aren't any fun to fight. That one basically just descended for me into having to grapple over him and then shot him and repeat ad nauseum, he's just really really cheap.

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32 minutes ago, Kryptonian said:

 

The new Assault Rifle is pretty lethal and a good sub for the Battle rifle if your aim isn't as good as it was. The Commando gun has a real kick to it though.

 

As an aside, I enjoyed reading your long post above, I don't know if you haven't posted as much recently or if I've just not been in the same threads but it was good to see you around :) 


Thanks! Yes I am posting very very infrequently at the moment :)

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Nearly all of the bosses that were in an enclosed room involved running round and round a pillar Benny Hill style so they don't one shot you, occasionally turning round to fire a few rounds at them.

 

Spoiler

Especially that second version of that robot boss thing. Just an utterly boring, uninspired design that fight. He even removes pillars as you fight, but the fact the massive pillar in the middle of the room serves the same function just makes it seem hilariously badly thought out.

 

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1 hour ago, RJames said:

Whilst I knew plasma weapons shredded shields, I had no idea they were ‘worse’ on health than kinetic ones. Maybe I do need to start trying the human weapons more.

 

Yes, this is very much the case. As mentioned, the needler is a Kinetic yet alien weapon. At the right range it will munch through health with each needle explosion. 

 

That for me, is the Halo dance. Trying to work out the best use of the weapons for each senario. 

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1 minute ago, Benny said:

Nearly all of the bosses that were in an enclosed room involved running round and round a pillar Benny Hill style so they don't one shot you, occasionally turning round to fire a few rounds at them.

 

  Hide contents

Especially that second version of that robot boss thing. Just an utterly boring, uninspired design that fight. He even removes pillars as you fight, but the fact the massive pillar in the middle of the room serves the same function just makes it seem hilariously badly thought out.

 

 

Yep, and the they're so spongey I felt I was always having to restock ammo.

 

Spoiler

Like in that fight the Sentinel beam is the best weapon - works long range, good time to kill, and can even hit his arms when he protects them. But it chews through ammo and there's one hardlight ammo restock in the entire arena, I've basically got to hug that for the entire fight and resupply after taking down each of his arms, and he's pressuring you and has an instant-kill move when close, so I have to Benny hill around the arena sometimes so I can get back to the ammo station.

 

Some of the weapons, if you request them from a FOB, you have to request them three times to fill up the ammo pool.

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1 hour ago, Uncle Nasty said:

 

From range you can shoot their red exposed areas with the Battle Rifle or Sniper Rifle. Position yourself near to cover and just pop out and shoot between them firing back at you. Aim for the neck. You can't really do the classic Halo Hunter dance, sadly,

 

Yeah, I've found they're not so responsive to doing the Hunter dance, they basically don't do it. 

They're maybe more designed - ironically - in this one to be a better playing encounter in co-op.

You can still break off their back armour, then maybe one player suppress the front will the other damages the back. 

 

...obviously, won't know till they ship co-op next year. 

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What I don't understand is why 343 are so obsessed with ropey boss fights in the first place. Halo was a game that got a lot of praise at the time for eschewing the typical final boss. At the time FPS games were still aping the arcade final boss model, even Half Life had a rubbish final boss. Instead of that Halo went for an action set piece where you race a Warthog through the exploding remains of the Pillar of Autumn. Then weirdly Bungie ignored the praise they got and stuck awful boss fights in Halo 2 and they didn’t go over well.  Bungie learned their lesson, Halo 3 has a rather perfunctory Guilty Spark fight, but mainly it relies on set pieces like the Scarab fights and racing a Warthog across a Halo under construction, then Reach has an awesome doomed last stand as it’s capper.

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I'm much earlier into it than most of you, reached the second island and clearing away the last of the secondary objects before heading to the main one. 

 

I'm definitely missing the pacing of the linear titles, and the set piece crescendos that previous titles managed so well. Even if I played the previous titles on my own, this feels weirdly lonely. 

 

Most of this game is actually pretty average, very much saved by near best in class combat. I'm loving playing it but it is deeply compromised.

I'd quite like an Xbox melting combat simulator a but like TABS, where you can just put yourself against any custom designed combat situation in a random landscape and just go for it. 

 

Incidentally last night I unlocked the shockwave grapple/melee move. I find it very difficult to trigger and deeply unsatisfactory when it does. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong? I get a one second animation from the chief and little else happens. 

 

Still having a lot of fun with this game and want to make progress every day on it, so don't want to sound too harsh. Still think the gameplay is right up there with the best. 

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Despite my comments earlier, I've just done a fairly early boss 

Spoiler

the drill control room brute with the hammer

 ...and it was absolutely no fun at all. Loads of instant-kill long-distance moves, lots of random kills I assume are down to power cores exploding in the chaos. Fortunately, I happened to have a rocket launcher with me, which made things a bit easier, but god knows what would have happened if I'd walked in with the wrong weapons.

 

This is hardly a new opinion, but Halo and bosses do not mix. The only vaguely good one was Regret, and that's mainly because it was about managing the adds and keeping alive in between opportunities to do damage, i.e. playing the game as you normally do, except with a bit more intensity. 

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7 minutes ago, PeteJ said:

Incidentally last night I unlocked the shockwave grapple/melee move. I find it very difficult to trigger and deeply unsatisfactory when it does. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong? I get a one second animation from the chief and little else happens. 

 

4 minutes ago, Benny said:

Are you holding melee while you're grappling?

 

Yeah, as soon as you hook someone you need to hold down melee, if you're doing it as you're about to reach them you don't have time to charge it up.

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1 minute ago, K said:

Despite my comments earlier, I've just done a fairly early boss 

  Reveal hidden contents

the drill control room brute with the hammer

 ...and it was absolutely no fun at all. Loads of instant-kill long-distance moves, lots of random kills I assume are down to power cores exploding in the chaos. Fortunately, I happened to have a rocket launcher with me, which made things a bit easier, but god knows what would have happened if I'd walked in with the wrong weapons.

 

This is hardly a new opinion, but Halo and bosses do not mix. The only vaguely good one was Regret, and that's mainly because it was about managing the adds and keeping alive in between opportunities to do damage, i.e. playing the game as you normally do, except with a bit more intensity. 

 

I just did the same boss the other night. I feel like the only real issue with him and the one before was the lack of space to get away. I liked the first boss because you could break line of sight and the environment was big enough that you could sneak around choosing the best weapon, and then plan an all-out assault. All the bosses so far seem to require the same tactic of removing the shield with energy weapons, then keeping on at their health bar with the appropriate tools in order to stop them recharging. That's pretty fun and intense by itself, but getting locked into a small area definitely pushes things over the edge to being frustrating. Even if being able to escape that control room into the open air made the boss trivial to defeat, it wouldn't matter.

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The big problem is he has a homing leap attack that'll just instant kill you on heroic or legendary and he can use it from any distance, you can jump or thrust and that'll reduce the damage to "survivable" (and it requires you not to get boxed into a corner or stuck on a crate), but then he's still right on you for a followup strike that'll instantly kill you. There's no tell, no telegraph, it's just trial and error deaths until he doesn't do it.

 

 

People say the combat design is great, but on anything that isn't nicked from Destiny 2 (the Sentinels with their instant sniper attacks with no telegraph, the Hunters who have seemingly been designed for co-op and have no telegraphs, the bosses) it's pretty trash, honestly.

 

There's a reason so many people are recommending cheeses that rely on the AI not knowing what to do.

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12 minutes ago, Pob said:

 

I just did the same boss the other night. I feel like the only real issue with him and the one before was the lack of space to get away. I liked the first boss because you could break line of sight and the environment was big enough that you could sneak around choosing the best weapon, and then plan an all-out assault. All the bosses so far seem to require the same tactic of removing the shield with energy weapons, then keeping on at their health bar with the appropriate tools in order to stop them recharging. That's pretty fun and intense by itself, but getting locked into a small area definitely pushes things over the edge to being frustrating. Even if being able to escape that control room into the open air made the boss trivial to defeat, it wouldn't matter.

 

I think that bit would have been better if they'd just had a normal brute chieftain with maybe some supporting henchbrutes. I'm not sure Halo works as well when you're fighting individual enemies with crazy amounts of health and shields. One of the best bits in Halo 3 was fighting a whole pack of brutes in that long, thin vehicle bay in the human base, which was similarly confined but worked incredibly well because you had to use everything at your disposal to survive, and because it felt really fair. You could rip through brutes if you got a few lucky grenade sticks, or you could have a minutes-long shoot-out with a single one if things played out that way. That sequence was just the normal rules the game operates under, except put into an unusual situation.

 

In this one, it's a matter of learning how to avoid a load of moves you've never seen before, while trying to avoid being instantly killed. It all feels very artificial and arbitrary, without being especially fun.

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32 minutes ago, K said:

Despite my comments earlier, I've just done a fairly early boss 

  Reveal hidden contents

the drill control room brute with the hammer

 ...and it was absolutely no fun at all. Loads of instant-kill long-distance moves, lots of random kills I assume are down to power cores exploding in the chaos. Fortunately, I happened to have a rocket launcher with me, which made things a bit easier, but god knows what would have happened if I'd walked in with the wrong weapons.

 

This is hardly a new opinion, but Halo and bosses do not mix. The only vaguely good one was Regret, and that's mainly because it was about managing the adds and keeping alive in between opportunities to do damage, i.e. playing the game as you normally do, except with a bit more intensity. 

 

Spoiler

Or you can grapple on to a door ledge and he just runs around under you like a big useless doofus whilst you calmly headshot him to death

 

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1 minute ago, RubberJohnny said:

The big problem is he has a homing leap attack that'll just instant kill you on heroic or legendary and he can use it from any distance, you can jump or thrust and that'll reduce the damage to "survivable" (and it requires you not to get boxed into a corner or stuck on a crate), but then he's still right on you for a followup strike that'll kill you. There's no tell, no telegraph, it's just trial and error deaths until he doesn't do it.

 

I did him on Legendary and managed to get a checkpoint partway through the fight somehow. I'd already stripped his shields and had to retry the starting seconds of the checkpoint many times. That's the only place you can really take him on is the two-storey area because you can use the mezzanine and stairs to prevent him from rushing straight to you, plus it's pretty easy to just using the ceiling to zipline out of there. The hardest thing is finding the space to grab new weapons from the racks up top.

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Yep, another annoying thing is power weapons use a different ammo type, you take a sniper rifle to be refilled and it says nah, because they don't use ballistic ammo but power ammo.

 

I think I only saw one resupply for power ammo in the whole campaign, it makes power weapons weirdly useless, as all the ammo you can carry won't dent a boss, so you end up using the most powerful non-power weapon that can be refilled (usually the Sentinel beam or Ravager)

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