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Halo Infinite - OUT NOW - no campaign spoilers pls


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6 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

I mean you act like those things are somehow all innate, unbendable laws of the universe, when they all have a pretty simple and banal cause they could do something about - the engine is shit. Bungie said it was shit, it's hell for development, and 343 been stuck using the same engine since 2011.

 

You'd think with spending six years between games they could have replaced it, but somehow they've ended up with a rebadged version that performs even worse, looks even more behind the curve technically and can't be easily updated, which is just what you want for a game-as-a-service F2P shooter!

How are they still using the same engine as Halo: CE? I don't know what they used before, but isn't the Slipspace Engine new for Infinite?

 

Have you got any links to the stories behind this? I'd love to have a read about it.

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18 minutes ago, JPL said:

How are they still using the same engine as Halo: CE? I don't know what they used before, but isn't the Slipspace Engine new for Infinite?

 

Have you got any links to the stories behind this? I'd love to have a read about it.

 

All the Halo games were Blam! engine, that was what was handed over to 343 when Bungie left. They pretended Slipspace was a new engine at the initial reveal, but DF confirmed and 343 admitted that Slipspace is just a tarted up version of Halo 5's code, as there are legacy bugs like the variable-rate animations that show up in Infinite. From Schreiers piece:

 

Quote

The engine used to build Halo [Infinite] was the one 343 had based largely on the old Bungie code. Parts of the engine, a tool set called Faber, became infamous in the studio for being buggy and difficult to use. Within engineering, there is a concept known as “technological debt”, which refers to the problems one endures because the previous programmers of a system chose quick and easy solutions rather than quick fixes. more sustainable solutions. Faber’s code, some of which dated back to the early 2000s, was so in debt that 343 engineers scoffed at its “technological bankruptcy.”

 

Bungie forked the Halo 3 engine and reworked it heavily for 5 years to make Destiny, and that appears to be better in some ways, but still pretty painful for development.

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Just now, RubberJohnny said:

 

All the Halo games were Blam! engine, that was what was handed over to 343 when Bungie left. They pretended Slipspace was a new engine at the initial reveal, but DF confirmed and 343 admitted that Slipspace is just a tarted up version of Halo 5's code, as there are legacy bugs like the variable-rate animations that show up in Infinite.

 

Bungie forked the Halo 3 engine and reworked it heavily for 5 years to make Destiny, and that appears to be better in some ways, but still pretty painful for development.

The Destiny engine was famously terrible wasn't it? Like 8 hours to open the map editor terrible?

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Just now, BitterToad said:

The Destiny engine was famously terrible wasn't it? Like 8 hours to open the map editor terrible?

 

I felt that you could really tell and feel that the original Destiny was built on top of basically Reach, or the Reach engine. 

The "Game-feel" and also the look of the game were so similar to each other. Obvious not the art-direction but everything else. 

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Jason Schreiers atrticle.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-08/how-microsoft-s-halo-infinite-went-from-disaster-to-triumph?srnd=premium

 

 

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Sounds like a good job we never got 343's original vision and that it underwent a change of direction.

 

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As a player, Staten liked how computer-controlled Marines in earlier versions would join up with him on his battles. At the time he took over, he says, Marines in Halo Infinite were programmed to stay frustratingly close to the spots where the player first encountered them. “Every once in a while I run into a couple of Marines,” Staten says. “But they kind of stay where they are, and they don’t join me on my adventure, and they’re not part of that heroic feeling that you get from classic Halo games.”

In the end, 343 fixed the graphics problems, and Staten got his roaming Marines.

 

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The way so may parts of MP seem to pull against each other bears out his reports of 343 being split into fiefdoms that were fighting with each other.

 

It's spooky how closely this aligns with the stories about the development of Destiny, guess they still have a lot of Bungie DNA in them.

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I'm a big Halo fan - i'm not a big replayer of games generally, but i've done CE & Reach multiple times. Almost finished a second play through of 2, and i'd go for 3 after if Infinite wasn't coming out. Don't personally really give much of a shit about the issues on this one - crap XP system, no pre-load, 30fps cut scenes etc. None of it really bothers me.

 

This, though. This is a fucking disgrace:

 

On 06/12/2021 at 13:50, pinholestar said:


This is a very succinct recap of the Halo story to date, although I’m sure there are much more in-depth 45 minute lore dumps out there:

 

https://www.thegamer.com/plot-halo-explained-1000-words/

 

What the hell. Forerunners AND precursors? I read the first two entries and I had to go over them multiple times. That's even before we get in to the myriad covenant factions and their different motives, and that's even before we get to those light lads in Halo 4. Never had a clue who they were...I don't skip cutscenes in general, and they have done a shocking job of getting the story across. I think in comparison to 1, 2, 3 & 4 even the much maligned 5 was reasonably coherent - Cortana thinks she can run the universe, UNSC disagree and Master Chief is torn. Same with Reach - aliens invade, fight the aliens. Fucking love Reach. 

 

Can't say i'm too excited about the story here in Infinite, all i've seen is that it's another Covenant faction. 

 

Good news is, none of it matters to me when I play the game. It's still a blast and I can't wait to watch that download status bar creep up slowly at 6pm. Halo! WOOHOO!

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Add into that Microsoft's reliance on contractors who can only stay for a maximum of 18 months. So you have a constant stream of people leaving and then new people coming in who have learn this nightmare engine of spaghetti code from scratch, as opposed to hitting the ground running with something like Unreal and the whole thing was a disaster in the making. That it turned out as well as it has is a minor miracle.

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From a developer perspective basing engine designs off previous versions is a good idea. Unreal Engine 5 is still built upon the engine for Unreal. Id tech 5 is an evolution of the Quake engine. Valve's Source is still from a fork of the original Quake. So it shouldn't be seen as an issue that the new engine is built on a frame of the old one. 

 

Tech debt builds up over time and despite "always working" code ages and needs sprucing up over time. In large projects early decisions can really hamper future development and need to be addressed. Bungie's engine appears to be one that suffers from some issues that need to be dealt with rather than glossing over. But two large development houses have failed to deal with those problems. Whether this is due to developers being stereotypical game devs (all the passion, all of the overworking, burnt out before becoming senior devs) I can't say. 

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43 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

All the Halo games were Blam! engine, that was what was handed over to 343 when Bungie left. They pretended Slipspace was a new engine at the initial reveal, but DF confirmed and 343 admitted that Slipspace is just a tarted up version of Halo 5's code, as there are legacy bugs like the variable-rate animations that show up in Infinite. From Schreiers piece:

 

 

Bungie forked the Halo 3 engine and reworked it heavily for 5 years to make Destiny, and that appears to be better in some ways, but still pretty painful for development.

That's interesting thanks.

 

17 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Add into that Microsoft's reliance on contractors who can only stay for a maximum of 18 months. So you have a constant stream of people leaving and then new people coming in who have learn this nightmare engine of spaghetti code from scratch, as opposed to hitting the ground running with something like Unreal and the whole thing was a disaster in the making. That it turned out as well as it has is a minor miracle.

I wonder why they've continued with this engine if they know it's a total mess then? As you say the turnover of staff won't help things and it'd make more sense for them to go with something like Unreal, that anyone coming in will already know.

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2 hours ago, Treble said:

 

Hah, good point. I'm too honest for my own good a lot of the time :)

 

For context: due to the nature of NDAs and review code these days, I think we're very much hamstrung as consumers. There are a very narrow range of opinions available on day zero; Gman is a bit of an arsehole, truth be told, but of the range of outlets being so select means turning to opinions you can trust. 

 

I don't particularly like the guy, but he is quite Brute(hah!)ally honest about the design of Infinite; a viewpoint we'll probably not start seeing from other review outlets for another day or two.

 

Why would you give the piece of shit the clicks?

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Best of luck everyone. I’m not even gonna bother at 6, may just wait until the weekend/when my disc version arrives.  Happy to clog up the thread with mindless claptrap though. 

 

As long as the MP is still up and running….

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