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Halo Infinite - OUT NOW - no campaign spoilers pls


Wallace
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The AFK thing that K described earlier in the thread could grow to be a real problem. I’ve seen it quite a few times myself now when matching with all randoms.

 

If you’re a prick who doesn’t give a shit about your team then by far the quickest way to gain XP is by letting the enemy team roll over you. This is because the repeatable daily quest is entirely based on the sheer volume of games you play and not your performance in them.

 

For example a closely fought game of CTF in Arena can take 15 mins or whatever the time limit is, compared to taking a dive where the entire thing can be over in about 3 minutes.

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Quests in team games beyond simply 'win' are dreadful as invariably a lot will incentivise not playing for the benefit of the team*. If you must have participation quests then they should only ever be in FFA.

 

*I mean admittedly you get people who play like that anyway, people who think K/D is the only measure of their worth.

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19 minutes ago, Harsin said:

The AFK thing that K described earlier in the thread could grow to be a real problem. I’ve seen it quite a few times myself now when matching with all randoms.

 

If you’re a prick who doesn’t give a shit about your team then by far the quickest way to gain XP is by letting the enemy team roll over you. This is because the repeatable daily quest is entirely based on the sheer volume of games you play and not your performance in them.

 

For example a closely fought game of CTF in Arena can take 15 mins or whatever the time limit is, compared to taking a dive where the entire thing can be over in about 3 minutes.

 

Yeah I've been in a lot of arena matches when we've gone a man down.  No contest if it's 3 v 4.

 

Seems better now I've got a ranking.

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As already stated, this is a really great playing game with an awful progression system attached. I'm confident they'll address things over time but the issues are so glaring that you have to wonder what pressures forced them down this route; they've had years to study other games' missteps.

 

Only progressing via challenges feels bad. Having them be the main source of XP is fine, but finishing three matches in a row where you haven't made inroads on any of your (limited) active challenges due to luck of the draw – wrong game type, weapon needed not on the map, etc – makes it feel like you're wasting your time. Which you aren't, as the game is fun, but the existence of a static XP bar actually detracts from the desire to continue. Giving you a trickle of XP based on medals earned – weighted towards playing the objective – would probably alleviate things a bit, and avoid the current absentee issue with the dailies.

 

Challenges themselves can be disruptive. This is a hard one to tackle as you don't want tasks to be too generic, but things like, “Get three melee kills with the Oddball” encourage bad play. Sure you might get those three kills naturally, but given you only have so many active challenge slots the game actively pushes you to pursue such goals; people are very good at optimising the fun out of games when given an incentive.

 

Most unlocks aren't enticing. This is another tough one as 343 are somewhat limited in what they can offer; this isn't Fortnite's jumble sale of character styles and IP. However, when one of the main rewards for levelling is a chance to roll a less annoying weekly challenge that's kind of a failure on two fronts. There seems to be a fair amount of stuff for sale in the store that could have been part of the pass, which doesn't feature any weapon skins for example. Also notable that you don't earn any paid currency back from the pass progression, unlike Fortnite, Warzone and Apex.

 

XP boosts are time based. Never been one for boost items myself, but it should be obvious why having a 30-minute window makes no sense for the staccato, challenge-based XP system they have in place.

 

I imagine they're going to overhaul things for the second season given that isn't starting until May. Still, it's hard to fathom how anyone thought the current approach would be received well, especially as they ostensibly had an extra year's delay to consider their approach.

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What’s all this progression stuff you lot keep talking about?

 

Admittedly, I haven’t played Halo online properly since Reach, but I just used to play it for fun. I don’t think there was any progression as such in that beyond your ranking and that never really bothered me all that much, as the matchmaking generally did a good job of putting you against players of a similar skill level.

 

Is this something new that’s appeared in the time I’ve been away? What’s the purpose of it and why should it matter to me? I’m currently just enjoying it the same way I used to enjoy it all those years back. I don’t really understand what it brings past the enjoyment of just playing the game.

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20 minutes ago, Ferine said:

Only progressing via challenges feels bad

Most unlocks aren't enticing 

 

Maybe the team that worked on the unlocks were trying to offset the effects of the challenges on teamwork :P

 

Seriously however, having challenges that encourage people to play badly/poorly/selfishly shouldn't have been included. Hopefully they'll be removed, and 343 tie XP gain to actions that contribute to positive participation.

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I think the idea of progressing only through challenges is a really good one, but I totally agree that they need to have tasks that actually incentivise people to play the game. Like, reward people for getting assists, reward people for contributing to objective games, etc.

 

The progression structure seems to be all the worst elements of a F2P system (paid boosters, rewarding the player by temporarily removing boring stuff) and none of the stuff that actually hooks people in (constant feeling of progression, desirable stuff constantly just out of your reach, etc). The structure feels much more like a classic F2P game than, say, Apex Legends.

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I'm really really enjoying this. It seems people are actually trying to win the objectives as well rather than just get kills. Someone drove one of those alien tanks into an area controlled by another team, while someone else flew a banshee in. It was total chaos and rather magic. Slightly alarmed at the noises my Xbox one is making however, best not play it too long!

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20 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

Christ mate, tone it down a bit. There's no way you actually don't know, and the last couple of Halo games you have played have cosmetics progression.

 

The posts above yours literally say why you should care, read em.

Tone what down? I've been reading the posts, but not really understanding with them as it's not why I play the game. It's almost as if there's a game within a game now. What happened to just enjoying playing Halo?

 

And yeah, I've not once looked at any kind of progression, cosmetic or otherwise once I've got my character setup. I honestly don't get it. The fun is in the shooting/objectives, isn't it?

 

I'm guessing it's why my boys are always banging on about Fortnite battle passes and V-bucks, but again, I've no real idea what they are. Pay to win? Fancy outfits? New maps? Doesn't seem like much fun to me.

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12 minutes ago, K said:

constant feeling of progression, desirable stuff constantly just out of your reach, etc

Just to pull this from @K's post. What constant feeling of progression? What desirable stuff that's just out of reach?

 

I always thought Halo was about having a level playing field, where everyone had the same chances. Not drip feeding things to the player to make the game easier.

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4 minutes ago, JPL said:

Tone what down? I've been reading the posts, but not really understanding with them as it's not why I play the game. It's almost as if there's a game within a game now. What happened to just enjoying playing Halo?

 

And yeah, I've not once looked at any kind of progression, cosmetic or otherwise once I've got my character setup. I honestly don't get it. The fun is in the shooting/objectives, isn't it?

 

I'm guessing it's why my boys are always banging on about Fortnite battle passes and V-bucks, but again, I've no real idea what they are. Pay to win? Fancy outfits? New maps? Doesn't seem like much fun to me.

 

This would be more convincing if you didn't have a shitload of posts in the Destiny 2 thread. Give over.

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Just now, wev said:

There's nothing there to make the game easier or split the player base, it's all cosmetics so you can make your Spartan yours

Oh right, is that it then? Why does anyone care?

 

I painted mine green and that's how he'll stay for as long as I play it, I should imagine.

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Just now, RubberJohnny said:

 

This would be more convincing if you didn't have a shitload of posts in the Destiny 2 thread. Give over.

I never really got Destiny 2 to be honest. I always tried to play that as a straight up shooter, but I soon got bored of it.

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1 minute ago, JPL said:

Oh right, is that it then? Why does anyone care?

 

I painted mine green and that's how he'll stay for as long as I play it, I should imagine.

I don't know and neither do you, but it does.

 

ANd those people who do care may be tempted to AFK in matches or do other disruptive things to "win challenges" and that will adversely impact others.

 

Therefore 343 probably need to adjust those problematic challenges accordingly.

 

Simple.

 

 

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The Battle Pass progression via challenges was highlighted during the feedback from the flights that they were looking into it and they've reaffirmed that already in this first week so no doubt it'll get overhauled. Not worried about that at all to be honest.

 

The biggest issue in the game for me is no player collision. You can't bumped into other players, you'll just run right through them. This is one that 343 have said they're keeping in despite a lot of feedback. Hopefully they change their mind now that the game is available to all.

 

Placed in Diamond last night. Time to retire! 🤣

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35 minutes ago, K said:

I think the idea of progressing only through challenges is a really good one, but I totally agree that they need to have tasks that actually incentivise people to play the game. Like, reward people for getting assists, reward people for contributing to objective games, etc.

 

Easiest way would be just to tie it to the existing medal system and in objective gametypes heavily weigh it to things llike flag grabs/returns, time your teams spends holding the oddball, capturing a domination point...etc. That might encourage randoms to actually play the game instead of contributing bugger all while they run around trying to no-scope 10 enemies while riding on the back of a mongoose for 100xp or actively incetivising the worst of them to just AFK and occasionally nudge their controller/keyboard while they watch Netflix, so they don't get booted for inactivity like Homer Simpson working from home.

 

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13 minutes ago, Clipper said:

I don't know and neither do you, but it does.

 

ANd those people who do care may be tempted to AFK in matches or do other disruptive things to "win challenges" and that will adversely impact others.

 

Therefore 343 probably need to adjust those problematic challenges accordingly.

 

Simple.

 

 

I suppose that makes sense. It’s just something I’ve never really associated with Halo, but I guess now it’s FTP, they need to monetise it to the suckers somehow. I’m sure they’ll balance it as time goes on, so the problems people are seeing are removed.

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The problem with the "why not just play this game for fun instead of getting on the Battle Pass trademill" is that they stuck this stuff into the game, so it's hard to ignore. 

 

I think most people, if they didn't have the Battle Pass, unlocks, challenges, XP etc, would just play the game for fun. Like people have said, it is what we did back with Halo 2 (I'm sure by the time we got to Reach we had unlocks and XP/leveling though). 

 

But because they are there, and because the multiplayer is tied up around them, they are harder to ignore. And your brain expects the rewards due to how familiar we are with gaming. We do a session of 3-4 matches and we expect to level up. The game has all the facets of such a system, but instead we go back and look at our XP bar and it's static. It's not really about playing for fun versus playing to unlock, it's about the pace of their entire XP/levelling/Battle Pass system being painfully and obviously glacial. 

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Just now, JPL said:

I suppose that makes sense. It’s just something I’ve never really associated with Halo, but I guess now it’s FTP, they need to monetise it to the suckers somehow. I’m sure they’ll balance it as time goes on, so the problems people are seeing are removed.

 

Boy you got that quick for a guy whose been in a cave since 2007!

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Just now, Oz said:

sorry if covered earlier but why can't I make this go full screen?

 

If you're on PC, W11/DX12 removes the performance penalty for games using Fullscreen Borderless now, so regular Fullscreen is becoming pointless and going away.

 

There's a couple of things in there I was confused by that turned out to be pretty cutting edge support, like why you have to set a minimum and maximum framerate (it's for those new-fangled VRR monitors).

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Just now, RubberJohnny said:

 

If you're on PC, W11/DX12 removes the performance penalty for games using Fullscreen Borderless now, so regular Fullscreen is becoming pointless and going away.

 

There's a couple of things in there I was confused by that turned out to be pretty cutting edge support, like why you have to set a minimum and maximum framerate (it's for those new-fangled VRR monitors).

yeh it breaks my gsync though.  if not full screen. I see screen tearing unless I turn vsync on. Brave new future!

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2 minutes ago, Oz said:

yeh it breaks my gsync though.  if not full screen. I see screen tearing unless I turn vsync on. Brave new future!

found a solution in control panel for anyone else wondering. first time I even have to look at this menu. 

PS: this multiplayer is the dog's bollocks

 

 

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