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MCU Phase 4 and beyond - Spidey to stay in the MCU! (warning: Endgame and Far From Home spoilers)


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On 10/08/2022 at 21:08, MansizeRooster said:

Has anyone else watched the new Groot shorts?

 

The last ep

 

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Has a nice Rocket cameo, though I felt his animation was noticeably poorer than in the films.

 

Also - the picture that Groot drew implies that he remembers his actions in the first Guardians films - so he's the same Groot, not a new one!

 

Regarding groot speculation in your spoiler (which I’m not going to as it’s not really a plot point I’m revealing or anything). Gunn has confirmed on Twitter a few times before it’s not the same Groot as in GotG1, that Groot died and this Groot is the equivalent of an offspring.  He explains the link you mention as not being something he remembers, but would have been told stories about by the rest of the crew telling him about his “dad”.

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On 31/07/2022 at 12:22, Kodamarama said:

Well in that case I’m happy to wait - fuck Bryan Singer. 

 

I share the sentiment but I'm pretty sceptical about the (unsourced?) reporting on the contract situation. Singer was already fired or removed from the credits on other movies, years ago now, for his misdeeds, in both director and producer roles. There are really no clauses in these supposed contracts that can be similarly employed?

 

I'm also doubtful that a studio is going to sign away its casting flexibility for multiple actors in the franchise for, what, at least 7 years, based upon when Dark Phoenix was produced and this 2025 date. Is that ever the balance of power in these things, particularly with an ensemble cast?

 

I think it's much more likely that new X-Men movies simply didn't fit in with the existing plans and/or they felt it's too soon for another standalone reboot of it.

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On 10/08/2022 at 18:51, George Clooney said:

The irony is there are some bits that feel like they could have been genuinely good but are poorly told.  For example, in the preface that leads up to the first issue where you see everyone preparing for the worst, Cap confronts Tony in the Ultimates version of Earth.  Like properly “the worlds going to end, you need to face up to some of the shit you’ve done” stuff where they fight and Cap is genuinely angry at Tony for some of the stuff he’s done “for the greater good”.  Tony in this universe isn’t a good person, but skirts on the good side enough to get a pass.  There’s some genuine emotional stuff there too, with Cap calling out Tony and Tony obviously sick of what he sees as Cap feeling he’s morally superior.  Or at least it would be if if weren’t told in a way that even with flashbacks during the fight, it’s not really that clear what exactly Cap wants to smash his face in for, and the stuff before is so muddled it’s hard trying to find the threads to make it really make sense.

 

 

This isn't quite right. There are no alternate versions of Cap & Tony, and the reason Cap is angry is the Illumaniti have been creating bombs to destroy other worlds behind everyones back.

 

At the start of the story Cap was part of the Illumanati until he realised the means they would need to go to. So they wipe his mind & go about their business of creating weapons, whilst keeping everyone else out of the loop. When Cap has his memory restored he starts coming after them all, with more focus on Tony due to him having gone full heel for various reasons.

 

I don't really think there was any need for flashbacks as it was a key part of the same story & had been building up to that point for 2 years.

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Was that taking place on 616 Earth?  I skimmed some of the prelude stuff but read the main secret wars again properly, and I think I missed some bits associated with all the lead up, but I assumed that was the from other earth that was about to collide with them(1610?), I think it was mainly because Tony was using the white armour which I thought was from that universe.  It does make sense though thinking about it now, as I remember the memory wipe and Cap chasing down some of the Avengers.

 

One of my main gripes in hindsight is that when stuffs happening with the people from several universes I’m not 100% on who’s from where, it’s a bit muddy sometimes in the big clash. In my opinion anyway.

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Yeah, the way to tell the difference is the 616 guys speech is in capitals, whilst the 1610/Ultimate guys all speak in lowercase. TBH there is very little Ultimate stuff in the story until the very end of Time Runs Out, and I think the only Ultimate characters left alive by Secret Wars are Reed Richards & Miles Morales 

 

The Secret Wars series is really just the end of the storyline that ran for the two years of Hickmans Avengers & New Avengers, so its not really a self-contained story. There is a whole ream of extra storyline with Infinity, Swans, Priests, The Beyonders, Dr. Strange & Doom etc. but the main gist of The Avengers fallout is:

 

  • Illumaniti discover Earth incursions are happening, which destroys one or both Earths every time.
  • They stop one by destroying an empty Earth, but mindwipe Cap when he objects to them killing other populated worlds.
  • Illumnati continue to make bombs to kill worlds.
  • They eventually fight a world with the "Justice League" (Squadron Supreme) but can't bring themselves to blow it up, until Namor does it.
  • Caps memory eventully gets restored.
  • The public find out about the Incursions & task a captured Thanos & his cabal to destroy the other worlds.
  • Illuminati go on the run.
  • Cap chases most of them down & eventually they come to an agreement to try & save as many people as possible on life rafts.
  • The 616 heroes try to take out Thanos whilst on another world to stop his murder spree (and fail).
  • The 1610 world have made a deal with Thanos & are now also building life rafts.
  • Iron Man has gone full villain during this because of the shitty Axis crossover a few months before.
  • The final 2 worlds to collide are 616 & 1610 (This is the start of Secret Wars)
  • Everything dies.

 

Here is a better explanation from the comic spoilered for size.

Spoiler

 

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What all about this?

 

Quote

Illumaniti discover Earth incursions are happening, which destroys one or both Earths every time.

They stop one by destroying an empty Earth, but mindwipe Cap when he objects to them killing other populated worlds.

Illumnati continue to make bombs to kill worlds.

They eventually fight a world with the "Justice League" (Squadron Supreme) but can't bring themselves to blow it up, until Namor does it.

Caps memory eventully gets restored.

The public find out about the Incursions & task a captured Thanos & his cabal to destroy the other worlds.

Illuminati go on the run.

Cap chases most of them down & eventually they come to an agreement to try & save as many people as possible on life rafts.

The 616 heroes try to take out Thanos whilst on another world to stop his murder spree (and fail).

The 1610 world have made a deal with Thanos & are now also building life rafts.

Iron Man has gone full villain during this because of the shitty Axis crossover a few months before.

 

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@PK You can buy collected editions from Comixology, which is probably the easiest way to read them. By luck most happen to be on sale at the minute!

 

I think the only thing worth knowing going in is there was a recent Marvel Crossover prior to this called 'Avengers v X-Men', where the fallout was Namor went to war & destroyed most of Wankanda. Xavier is also killed, and Wolverine is killed very shortly afterwards too if you're wondering why he doesn't appear in every book like normal. There was another crossover called ‘Age of Ultron’ were due to various attempts at resetting the timeline the Marvel heroes fracture the space-time continuum. You can safely skip both these crossovers as they’re not very good.

 

New Avengers Books 1-4 There is also a main Avengers title running alongside this, but its not really relevant for now & Time Runs Out will collect it when needed.

Infinity Crossover I think the main storyline part of this MIGHT be actually covered in the previous books, if so you could probably skip this.

Time Runs Out 1-4 This takes place 8 months later. Due to stories from other books Cap is now his real age, the world knows about the Illumaniti, Incursions & Iron Man is full villain.

Secret Wars This will collect the main Secret Wars story in 1 book. There are a multitude of spin-off mini series Marvel did during this (some good, some rubbish) and some of them will tie into the main book here, but you should be ok ignoring them.

 

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5 hours ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

 

@PK You can buy collected editions from Comixology, which is probably the easiest way to read them. By luck most happen to be on sale at the minute!

 

I think the only thing worth knowing going in is there was a recent Marvel Crossover prior to this called 'Avengers v X-Men', where the fallout was Namor went to war & destroyed most of Wankanda. Xavier is also killed, and Wolverine is killed very shortly afterwards too if you're wondering why he doesn't appear in every book like normal. There was another crossover called ‘Age of Ultron’ were due to various attempts at resetting the timeline the Marvel heroes fracture the space-time continuum. You can safely skip both these crossovers as they’re not very good.

 

New Avengers Books 1-4 There is also a main Avengers title running alongside this, but its not really relevant for now & Time Runs Out will collect it when needed.

Infinity Crossover I think the main storyline part of this MIGHT be actually covered in the previous books, if so you could probably skip this.

Time Runs Out 1-4 This takes place 8 months later. Due to stories from other books Cap is now his real age, the world knows about the Illumaniti, Incursions & Iron Man is full villain.

Secret Wars This will collect the main Secret Wars story in 1 book. There are a multitude of spin-off mini series Marvel did during this (some good, some rubbish) and some of them will tie into the main book here, but you should be ok ignoring them.

 

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this!  I've wanted to read this multiverse stuff for ages but had absolutely no idea where to start.

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Just got linked to a grim little 'why Phase 4 sucks' video (shock horror, it's the woke agenda people!).

 

If nothing else just makes me angry. Not because they're saying the franchise I like is a bit rubbish now, just that they are peddling this nasty horseshit for money. Why did X suck? Is it because it had writing issues? No silly it's because it's pushing the woke agenda! 

 

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1 hour ago, Chindie said:

Just got linked to a grim little 'why Phase 4 sucks' video (shock horror, it's the woke agenda people!).

 

If nothing else just makes me angry. Not because they're saying the franchise I like is a bit rubbish now, just that they are peddling this nasty horseshit for money. Why did X suck? Is it because it had writing issues? No silly it's because it's pushing the woke agenda! 

 

 

That way lies YouTube subs, I guess. Worked for that horrible fuck Russel Brand.

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  • 1 month later...
8 hours ago, makkuwata said:

“Armor Wars” to be a movie rather than a Disney+ show.

 

That’s bumped my interest in it up from non-existent to wait and see. There’s been a growing number of Marvel/Star Wars shows that would have benefited from just being a movie.

 

Not to mention Rhodes deserves one.

 

Which ones do you think?

 

I think maybe F&WS and Ms.Marvel could have probably been films and got the same outcome. Maybe Hawkeye too?

 

The rest I'd say were better for being TV shows, although I still enjoyed Hawkeye and Ms.Marvel so I was fine with them being TV too.

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Yeah they’d be the main offenders, though it simply would have been nice to see Hawkeye get a movie in the same spirit as Rhodes and Black Widow.

 

I think I’ve been more heavily swayed by recent Star Wars efforts. Obi Wan should have been a movie as originally planned and Boba Fett didn’t need to be made at all.

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It’d be a different film if he killed Han and then shot Luke in the face.  He looked cool in Empire and Jedi up until his “death”.  They should have left it at that rather than what ever the fuck the book of boba fett was about.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Theres been a lot of talk recently that the pre-production work on Blade has been a shitshow, to the extent of rumours of Ali wanting out and the entire thing going back to the drawing board.

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For some reason I was convinced it was supposed to be a Disney+ show. I hope they sort out whatever issues they're having and don't end up losing Ali, had high hopes when it was announced 

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