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MCU Phase 4 and beyond - Spidey to stay in the MCU! (warning: Endgame and Far From Home spoilers)


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Spoiler

Spider-Man: 

I'm sittin' in the railway station
Got a ticket to my destination
On a tour of one-night stands
My suitcase and guitar in hand
And every stop is neatly planned
For a poet and a one-man band

Homeward bound
I wish I was
Homeward bound
Home where my thought's escapin'
Home where my music's playin'
Home where my love lies waitin'
Silently for me

Every day's an endless stream
Of cigarettes and magazines
And each town looks the same to me
The movies and the factories
And every stranger's face I see
Reminds me that I long to be

Homeward bound
I wish I was
Homeward bound
Home where my thought's escapin'
Home where my music's playin'
Home where my love lies waitin'
Silently for me

Tonight I'll sing my songs again
I'll play the game and pretend
But all my words come back to me
In shades of mediocrity
Like emptiness in harmony
I need someone to comfort me

Homeward bound
I wish I was
Homeward bound
Home where my thought's escapin'
Home where my music's playin'
Home where my love lies waitin'
Silently for me
Silently for me

 

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15 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

You're not alone with Hulk. As a fan of the character it has ruined Endgame for me as I was too busy being annoyed at what they did with the character and it's the only MCU movie I've watched only once because if it. All the Hulk fans I know agree and a surprising amount of people who don't even especially care about the original comics either way, thought the same.

 

In the comics, Professor Hulk is completely different. He's a literal merger of the savage Hulk and the gray Hulk and Banner, ie the strength of the first,the mean streak craftiness of the second and the genuis intellect of the third. A walking bomb, volatile as hell but himself convinced he's not.

 

In the MCU he's bland and boring and weak. He most resembles the Banner Hulk from the eighties a period in which Banner was in full control of the Hulk. In other words, the timid scientist personality - in the comics it worked because he was slowly unraveling, losing control until the savage personality burst out more uncontrollable than ever, which proceeded to rampage his way through New York, smashing every big name hero in his way to a pulp. In Endgame we only got the bland and boring part of Banner Hulk. Unlike dude Thor there's no redemption arc. He jusr fizzles out, managing to lose his arm and do nothing but hold up a leaky pipe in a basement while the other 3 founding Avengers confront the ultimate bad guy they had been building towards for 10 years. Four founding characters, four core movies, three of them get their moment against Thanos. While the fourth is holding up a leaky pipe and never even comes anywhere near Thanos. 

 

 

There's so much potential with the character, so many timeless story arcs to draw from, so much human drama. The MCU is mostly excellent but after the brilliant moment in the first Avengers movie they completely squandered the Hulk character. 

I'm not a comic book fan or reader, so I know nothing of the various storylines that they could use, but I also hated how Hulk was treated over both Infinity War and Endgame. Obviously in Infinity War his only role was that of exposition-dumper and then to try for some (poor) comedy and Endgame he just, as you say, holds up a pipe. I would also agree that outside of that Avengers line (which was brilliant at the time), they really did very little with him (I'm not a fan of Ragnarok anyway, so his appearance in that did nothing for me either). Will he even be a big part of the next series of films?

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18 hours ago, Chindie said:

I hated the way they took Thor in Endgame.

 

I'm totally on board with him having a crisis over the tragedy he's faced through the saga and his own failure, but they then basically use him for a fat gag until the end.

 

Yeah, they almost completely ruined the good work Hemsworth and Waititi had done in Ragnarok.

 

He regresses back to the same character from the previous films in Infinity War, which sees him looking for a weapon to channel his power which he'd just spent the whole of Ragnarok learning he didn't need a weapon to channel, just so they could get to their epic "You should have gone for the head!" moment. Sticking in one line saying "it could even hypothetically channel the bifrost!" or whatever was clearly a hurried edit to account for that.  And then in Endgame - "Oh, he's a comedy character now, errr...let's make him a fat Lebowski who cries?". It was shit.

 

Ragnarok is the only one of these films I really thought was brilliant so I realise might be biased!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Started a Phase 1 rewatch. Haven’t seen most of the Marvel films more than once (almost all of them during their cinema releases). Iron Man 1 feels more militaristic and, to a very minor degree, Michael Bay-ish than any of the subsequent films, as far as I remember, but most of the MCU ‘feel’ was already there from day one. Unlike The Incredible Hulk, which is very generic noughties superhero film – if it wasn’t for the mention of the Supersolider project and T. Stark turning up in the mid-credits sequence, I would’ve assumed that it was a pre-MCU film which had been partially retconned into the continuity.

 

(Hadn’t noticed before that Iron Man and TIH have very similar endings, where the hero has a fight with a bigger, eviler counterpart of himself.)

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8 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

 

(Hadn’t noticed before that Iron Man and TIH have very similar endings, where the hero has a fight with a bigger, eviler counterpart of himself.)


Iron Man 2, Ant Man and Black Panther also have villains who when they’re fighting are just the hero in an evil suit.

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7 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

Started a Phase 1 rewatch. Haven’t seen most of the Marvel films more than once (almost all of them during their cinema releases). Iron Man 1 feels more militaristic and, to a very minor degree, Michael Bay-ish than any of the subsequent films, as far as I remember, but most of the MCU ‘feel’ was already there from day one. Unlike The Incredible Hulk, which is very generic noughties superhero film – if it wasn’t for the mention of the Supersolider project and T. Stark turning up in the mid-credits sequence, I would’ve assumed that it was a pre-MCU film which had been partially retconned into the continuity.

 

(Hadn’t noticed before that Iron Man and TIH have very similar endings, where the hero has a fight with a bigger, eviler counterpart of himself.)

 

We've been doing the same, a couple of movies each weekend. First time my son's seen them too so I get to enjoy them through his eyes as well as second time round for me.

 

I enjoyed Iron Man 2 a *lot* less than I did first time around. It's just a bunch of different plotlines all jammed together without any real clear line through, and it spends time setting up future MCU stuff at the expense of its own story. Tony Stark's particularly unlikeable in this, and I don't think Rhodey gets much love either.

 

Thor was pretty good though, nice to get back to a simpler story after all of Stark's incessant jabbering. Hemsworth leans into the comedic stuff early on more than I remember, I thought he played it pretty straight until Ragnarok but this is actually a pretty funny film. And it's got Darcy in it! Natalie Portman looks bored as hell throughout though.

 

Very much looking forward to Captain America and Avengers this weekend as in my memory that's the point at which things really got good.

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I’m rewatching them all in timeline order. Dr Strange last night - such a fun film.

 

Must say though that despite the shit Iron Man 2 and Thor: Dark World get, I enjoyed both a fair bit more than Iron Man 3. That’s the worst of the MCU films for me (despite/because of Ben Kingsley’s character).

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I watched Iron Man 2 for the first time in a while; and the way it treats Johanssen  is really problematic. It’s all T&A, and at times the camera approaches Bay levels of leeriness. 
 

Feels quite out of place now with the rest of the MCU films

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On 23/02/2021 at 21:27, Sabreman said:

Am I alone in not really liking Smart Hulk at all? I'm not super familiar with the character beyond the 70s TV series and the movies, but for me the compelling essence of the character is that struggle between the two facets of Banner, and the unpredictable capacity for violence. I find the fused version just kind of bland. For me, along with Gamer Thor, it's the biggest mis-step of Endgame.

It’s the Hulk conundrum. He is so utterly nerfed in the MCU, they had to change the character. Even smashy hulk only really went beserk when SW messed with his mind. Lol, she just turned him into normal hulk. Now he’s basically just Banner Bro and everyone probably assumes he’s not quite as strong.

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On 05/03/2021 at 12:12, jonamok said:

I’m rewatching them all in timeline order. Dr Strange last night - such a fun film.

 

Must say though that despite the shit Iron Man 2 and Thor: Dark World get, I enjoyed both a fair bit more than Iron Man 3. That’s the worst of the MCU films for me (despite/because of Ben Kingsley’s character).

 

I watched Iron Man 3 last night. It's definitely a low point for the franchise, and while it has some good stuff:

 

Spoiler

Ben Kingsley's great, and the child sidekick is, amazingly, not annoying

 

it also has a load of shit in it:

 

Spoiler

It takes ages to get going, Guy Pearce is a terrible scenery-chewing villain, the whole Super Pepper Potts thing is ridiculous, and it's got the worst "let's just chuck loads of CGI at the screen and see what happens" ending in the entire series. Also the whole "save the President" thing seems very dated now, post-Trump, and the very existence of President Ellis took me right out of the movie.

 

Mostly though I think it suffers from its positioning in the running order - it's yet more Iron Man. 3 of the first 7 MCU movies are Iron Man movies and it's feeling very overplayed by this point - especially post-Avengers when things finally seemed to be opening up a bit. Thor 2 is a bit of a stinker too but at least Asgard feels like it's got more to explore, Tony Stark's entire world has been shown to us twice already and this time round it's just a bit dull.

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Finally saw Far From Home, I absolutely loved it. The final battle got tiring but at least it was a little different, and I continue to laugh as much as I would in a comedy. Tom Holland is a treasure.

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Came here to say the same actually. Just got round to it seeing as Wandavision kicked things off pretty well.

Seeing as FfH is still chronologically the most current though, I'd really like to see how they resolve certain elements from that. Will be interesting to find out where Falcon and Winter Soldier are in relation.

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After watching the Snyder cut over the past few days, I thought I’d go back to some marvel and double check if my memory was correct about them.

just finished infinity war. I think I only watched it once.

Yes it’s got plenty of jokes and light hearted bits in, but on the whole it’s fucking bleak!.. there’s an awful lot of people getting run through with various spears, limbs chopped off and tons of death. But it doesn’t feel pointless or gratuitous. Or even out of character.

My memory was right. It’s amazing.

... i guess I’ll have to do end game tomorrow!

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Got to the end of Phase 2 on my MCU rewatch. Age of Ultron was a bit of a mess, wasn’t it? Felt like watching a TV edit that had vital scenes truncated or cut out to put in extra advert space. Also surprised how little I remembered of it too – like most of the films I’ve only seen them once, during the cinema release, but even then it all seemed very unfamiliar.

 

Think my favourite solo films from the series so far are Captain America: Winter Soldier and Ant-Man. (Yes, the  two films on the most opposite ends of the MCU’s serious/humourous spectrum. So far.)

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I did watch endgame this afternoon.

again I’d totally forgotten a lot. And again comparing it to the Snyder cut fresh in my memory, this feels so much more ‘mature’. And it kinda blows my mind that people wouldn’t think of this as grown up, it’s even at least a bit ‘grim dark’.

Thanos gets his head chopped off right at the start! Nat basically commits suicide. I think tony looks more fucked up at the end than anybody in justice League.... so if that’s the kind of thing that signifies mature it’s all here.

but there’s also so many awesome moments of joy and huge payoffs that have you cheering for them.

hurry up and get black widow on Disney +.

i want more again now.

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I think Age of Ultron suffers from not having a clear idea behind it. “The Avengers fight a bad robot and some other guys” isn’t exactly a premise with boundless dramatic potential. Even Thor 2 had “Thor has to save his girlfriend”.

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Up to Guardians on a timeline rewatch with the family.

 

Iron Man 2 and Dark World continue to be low points. Winter Soldier's first two acts continue to be amazeballs but let down completely by a woeful final act. Guardians and Avengers Assemble are still my favourites. 

 

Next up Guardians 2!

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My wife and I are also rewatching. We are following the Disney+ chronological sequence. My wife really enjoyed CA: first Avenger but I can take it or leave it. Captain Marvel though and Iron Man were both great. It’s going to be fun going through them all. Realised how little I remembered and also there’s a couple of films that I think I missed entirely.

 

It’s also great to pick up on all the connections and character links which passed me by at the time. 

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16 hours ago, Alex W. said:

I think Age of Ultron suffers from not having a clear idea behind it. “The Avengers fight a bad robot and some other guys” isn’t exactly a premise with boundless dramatic potential. Even Thor 2 had “Thor has to save his girlfriend”.


A big problem with Age of Ultron is that after the getting the band together of the last film, this should have been the one where they're a team firing on all cylinders and working great together. Instead they're all at each other's throats for most of the film. It really undermines Civil War when most of them seem like they can barely stand each other already. 

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