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kerraig UK

Battlefield V

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2 hours ago, shock33 said:

I will say that I am not a big fan of frontlines, some games can last an ETTTEEERRRRNNNNIIITTTY, that said I just had a game where we had been pushed all the way back and had 2 of the 3 final points destroyed when I joined, we went back and forth for about 20 minutes on that point, then just got on a roll and blew through each flag before blowing all the points almost at once, amazing rush when it happens (still think it's a pretty shit mode though!)

 

I love those long games of attrition where the bases get slowly more and more fucked and neither team can make headway. Really feels like an actual conflict taking place and allows for setting up long term strategies where you plan two bases ahead.

When Frontlines first launched in BF1 it had no countdown timer. I remember a 3hour game KriessG and I had on Soissons where after two and a half hours nobody had even captured the first base. Fucking mint.

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2 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:

Why do people not like spotting? Never understood that esp as it’s a fundamental part of BF games - do the same people not like suppression too and happy that’s gone also?

 

I don’t have a problem with spotting per se. It was fine in previous games and if you removed it from, for example, BF4 it just wouldn’t play the same, but I’m not sure that I see it as one of the absolute cornerstones of what makes Battlefield Battlefield. I like what its removal did to the way BFV plays in the sense that it’s prompted me to be far more aware of my surroundings and improved my situational awareness. There’s something about the way that games flow in BFV that I really like and for me personally I feel that the lack of red targets sitting above everyone’s head has a big part to play in it.

 

As I said, player visibility is a big problem on some of the maps and I think the fast TTK and having 3x scopes on the assault weapons as well as the way MMGs operate and some of the map design has kind of combined in a perfect storm to create a game that rewards camping. Along with the visually busy maps that just compound all of the above you’ve got a recipe for frustration for some people and I think that’s what’s prompting some to think that bringing back spotting is the answer. Maybe it is, I don’t know but I just really like the distinction that BFV has from previous titles in that regard. I personally don’t have an issue with it but acknowledge that I may be in a minority with that view.

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1 hour ago, kerraig UK said:

 

I love those long games of attrition where the bases get slowly more and more fucked and neither team can make headway. Really feels like an actual conflict taking place and allows for setting up long term strategies where you plan two bases ahead.

When Frontlines first launched in BF1 it had no countdown timer. I remember a 3hour game KriessG and I had on Soissons where after two and a half hours nobody had even captured the first base. Fucking mint.

 

Those multi-hour Frontlines epics before they patched it out were the best games of Battlefield I’ve ever had. I really wish they’d kept a playlist with no time-limit even though it would probably struggle to fill up with sufficient numbers.

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11 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:

Why do people not like spotting? Never understood that esp as it’s a fundamental part of BF games - do the same people not like suppression too and happy that’s gone also?

 

I spotted lots on BF1, it was an enjoyable mechanic, but it just felt very gamey and a tad immersion spoiling for a game with a period setting. I didn't mind the changes to it personally. 

 

The lack of suppression was a mistake to me though. Feels much more sterile a shooter with it just being visual. I've played a lot of Red Orchestra & Rising Storm and the suppression on those was totally my cup of tea. 

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3D spotting was OP. I’m glad it’s gone. Suppression (of the proper variety) though is missed. Have they ever said why they removed it?

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31 minutes ago, KriessG said:

3D spotting was OP. I’m glad it’s gone. Suppression (of the proper variety) though is missed. Have they ever said why they removed it?

 

I suspect it's because they made a big deal of the removal of random bullet deviation, bullets going precisely where your reticle is aiming and recoil control being a major focus of the gunplay. The thinking was probably that a mechanic that adversely affects your ability to shoot where you're aiming wasn't in keeping with the core gunplay of the game. 

 

I'm sort of 50/50 on the removal of proper suppression. Being instantly and effortlessly pinged in the head by a sniper when I'm hurling bullets in their direction is kind of bullshit but not being able to competently retaliate sometimes when under fire in BF1 was annoying as fuck at times too. I've got splinters in my arse from sitting on the fence on the subject. 

 

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That does make sense, however I still reckon you could combine with newer tighter gunplay with the old suppression. I wonder if they thought suppression put off newer players, that seems to have been a concern for them (See the TTK fiasco).

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I've seen and heard way more people celebrate its gone than lament its passing. 

Its a painful absence for me. I love that layer of realism that comes from seeing a mate running up on a guy, so firing a volley of shots at that guy to keep his head down while your buddy flanks. Or running backwards firing wildly to give yourself a shot at retreat. It's really messy and scrappy, but it makes you feel like you're in a firefight rather than playing a game. 

 

Pinholes suggestion of why its gone makes a lot of sense. 

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Think I'm pretty much done with BFV, I've not played it for over a week and I've gone back to BF4 and enjoying it a hell of a lot more. I'm just bored with the maps (as is everyone) and I just can't see things getting any better with the whacked out choices that EA/Dice have been making leading up to and after its release. This idea that every bloody shooter needs a BR gametype is just utter wank. I wished they'd kill off SP as well and free up teams to develop more maps/ DLC.

 

Basically Dice have a fucking word with yerself!

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3 hours ago, kerraig UK said:

I've seen and heard way more people celebrate its gone than lament its passing. 

Its a painful absence for me. I love that layer of realism that comes from seeing a mate running up on a guy, so firing a volley of shots at that guy to keep his head down while your buddy flanks. Or running backwards firing wildly to give yourself a shot at retreat. It's really messy and scrappy, but it makes you feel like you're in a firefight rather than playing a game. 

 

Pinholes suggestion of why its gone makes a lot of sense. 

 

They should’ve removed the random bullet deviation and added weapon-sway or graphical distortion or something instead. That way you get the difficulty of being under suppressive fire, but know that if you can manage to squeeze the trigger at the right time, your shots will still be true.

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18 hours ago, FishyFish said:

 

They should’ve removed the random bullet deviation and added weapon-sway or graphical distortion or something instead. That way you get the difficulty of being under suppressive fire, but know that if you can manage to squeeze the trigger at the right time, your shots will still be true.

 

But that's precisely what they've done?

 

I was thinking about this last night and I realised that the suppression mechanic in BF1 actually rewarded lower skilled players because if you were missing your shots your opponent had less chance of hitting you in retaliation. The mechanic and TTK in BFV means that if you're missing your shots your opponent has a much better chance to retaliate. It's a skill-gap thing and on balance I think it rewards better players so therefore is a positive change. There, I'm off the fence now.

 

I do see Kerraig's point that you could chuck some covering fire at an enemy to enable your squadmate to get a flank or whatever but in reality if you were being suppressed in BF1 it's most likely because your opponent was actively trying to hit you but their aim was off and they were missing their shots. 

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34 minutes ago, pinholestar said:

 

But that's precisely what they've done?

 

I was thinking about this last night and I realised that the suppression mechanic in BF1 actually rewarded lower skilled players because if you were missing your shots your opponent had less chance of hitting you in retaliation. The mechanic and TTK in BFV means that if you're missing your shots your opponent has a much better chance to retaliate. It's a skill-gap thing and on balance I think it rewards better players so therefore is a positive change. There, I'm off the fence now.

 

I do see Kerraig's point that you could chuck some covering fire at an enemy to enable your squadmate to get a flank or whatever but in reality if you were being suppressed in BF1 it's most likely because your opponent was actively trying to hit you but their aim was off and they were missing their shots. 

 

I don't agree with that. Suppression was a great balancer because it gave noobs a small chance against crackshots, but in the hands of a coordinated team it's an incredibly powerful tool to pin teams with. 

 

We can dominate a map like st Quentin's scar with smoke/suppression combos that see the enemy completely dazed and confused as they try to get from the church to the town, for example 

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Yeah it’s a very powerful tool if used in that way I totally agree but it’s still a mechanic that fundamentally rewards poor aim (or more accurately punishes the player on the receiving end of poor aim if you will) if you think about it. I do agree that’s of benefit to lower-skilled players and levels the playing field somewhat but from the off they stated that they wanted BFV’s gunplay to be more skill-based and for there to be a wider skill-gap, so as I said previously I think that’s the primary reason for its removal.

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1 hour ago, pinholestar said:

Yeah it’s a very powerful tool if used in that way I totally agree but it’s still a mechanic that fundamentally rewards poor aim (or more accurately punishes the player on the receiving end of poor aim if you will) if you think about it. I do agree that’s of benefit to lower-skilled players and levels the playing field somewhat but from the off they stated that they wanted BFV’s gunplay to be more skill-based and for there to be a wider skill-gap, so as I said previously I think that’s the primary reason for its removal.

 

I still dont agree though. In a firefight the suppression doesn't only work one way. If the noob is suppressing the vet, the reverse is also happening, so the playing field is still even. The vet still has the experience/skill advantage, but has to use different talents than just "put curser over head, pull trigger", it's knowing how to use the suppression situation to advantage.  

I'd argue that BFV's gunplay requires less skill now than before because all you have to do is aim at head. Before you used to have to process bullet travel and drop a lot more, along with variance, and then make judgement calls in an instant. 

BFV definitely feels like a dumbed down version. Even if the positive side is that it's crisper.

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6 hours ago, kerraig UK said:

 

I still dont agree though. In a firefight the suppression doesn't only work one way. If the noob is suppressing the vet, the reverse is also happening, so the playing field is still even. The vet still has the experience/skill advantage, but has to use different talents than just "put curser over head, pull trigger", it's knowing how to use the suppression situation to advantage.  

I'd argue that BFV's gunplay requires less skill now than before because all you have to do is aim at head. Before you used to have to process bullet travel and drop a lot more, along with variance, and then make judgement calls in an instant. 

BFV definitely feels like a dumbed down version. Even if the positive side is that it's crisper.

 

I think the crux of it for me is that it's removed an element of randomness over which you have limited control (accentuated random bullet deviation when suppressed) and replaced it with a visual effect that places the onus solely upon your ability to accurately respond to it, with no arbitrary penalty imposed if you're able to.

 

You make some good points though man and it clearly comes down to personal preference but it does seem as if players such as yourself who frequently utilised BF1-style suppression's attacking capabilities are gonna miss it more than those who often felt victim to it more than they took advantage of it. I'm in the latter group due to how my playstyle was in BF1 (iron-sights infantry PTFO sniper mainly, so very little room for error when returning fire) and so having given it some thought, for me personally it's a positive change.

 

Agree that bullet drop has been toned down in BFV though and you could definitely argue that that has made it less skillful in a sense but the overall crispness and most importantly reliability of the gunplay just feels like it's always rewarding your precision and that's why I like it so much.

 

Both phenomenal games though we can surely agree on that and it's not like I was routinely furious when getting suppressed in BF1, so to some degree it's a moot point. 

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3 minutes ago, pinholestar said:

 

I think the crux of it for me is that it's removed an element of randomness over which you have limited control (accentuated random bullet deviation when suppressed) and replaced it with a visual effect that places the onus solely upon your ability to accurately respond to it, with no arbitrary penalty imposed if you're able to.

 

You make some good points though man and it clearly comes down to personal preference but it does seem as if players such as yourself who frequently utilised BF1-style suppression's attacking capabilities are gonna miss it more than those who often felt victim to it more than they took advantage of it. I'm in the latter group due to how my playstyle was in BF1 (iron-sights infantry PTFO sniper mainly, so very little room for error when returning fire) and so having given it some thought, for me personally it's a positive change.

 

Agree that bullet drop has been toned down in BFV though and you could definitely argue that that has made it less skillful in a sense but the overall crispness and most importantly reliability of the gunplay just feels like it's always rewarding your precision and that's why I like it so much.

 

Both phenomenal games though we can surely agree on that and it's not like I was routinely furious when getting suppressed in BF1, so to some degree it's a moot point. 

 

Oh yeah for sure. Its all down to preference. I think the game has taken a step backwards removing suppression. 

 

Very frustrating games tonight. Bugs, PSN playing up, laser ninja enemies. 

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It's funny that suppression is hardly explored in games. Understandly I guess as this thread shows, its annoying to have your agency taken away from you.

 

The best example I can think of suppression in games was Company of Heroes, the squad based WW2 RTS. Machine guns and artillery suppressed squads allowing you to move to storm positions, it was really well done. The only other one that come to mind was that Iraq setting ghost reckon style game whereyou controlled squads. Again a tactics game, maybe it will just never be fun enough in an FPS setting.

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It depends what you're playing really - stepping away from the mainstream, The Brothers in Arms games had a decent suppression system, as did Full Spectrum Warrior.  Red Orchestra and Rainbow 6 games have had nice effects when you were under suppressing fire.

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On 10/02/2019 at 12:26, Nathan Wind said:

It depends what you're playing really - stepping away from the mainstream, The Brothers in Arms games had a decent suppression system, as did Full Spectrum Warrior.  Red Orchestra and Rainbow 6 games have had nice effects when you were under suppressing fire.

 

Don't forget the Banzai Charging Japanese soldiery in Rising Storm and their incredible Psychic Suppression Field. No fire necessary, just a few sharp implements and a bit of shouting

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4 hours ago, shirubagan said:

This is a bit of a looker on the X1X isn’t it?

Some lovely looking bits in the single player. Which I quite enjoyed on the X. Nice looking on the big TV and didn’t outstay it’s welcome

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Wearing a grey weathered uniform lying prone in rubble,  yep thats camouflage you dicks Dice. Another fucking stupid back track.

 

In the beta I distinctly remember seeing a crazy neon camouflage Tiger tank and how utterly horrible, stupid and out of place it was. Bet they had it all flip charted and graphed up how much revenue they would have made on all that bollocks.

 

They really are making a mess of this 

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