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Formula One - 2018 Season

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Stroll would not have got that promotion to Force India if his dad hadn't  bought the team. I'd say Grosjean because he's been racing for years and seems to be regressing this season.

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Spoilers because link length is huge.

 

Can't blame Ricciardo tbh, it did seem to be on the quiet that it was the clutch and not the Tag Heur Aston Martin RBR engine that failed. Would be hilarious to see what would happen if he refused to drive the last two races.

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It's a "thing". Alot of people have disliked him because of his bling, fashion sense and taste in music, he's not a typical Formula 1 driver and there were times before he joined Mercedes where it did seem like he was distracted by all of that but I think the past two seasons he's grown comfortable with himself, l think the season Rosberg won the championship helped him with that, he seemed very lonely and isolated all the time (apart from the hangers on) and I think he realised that whilst he could be the number one driver he maybe wasn't doing enough to get the team around him to like him so much

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5 hours ago, kiroquai said:

Numbers are a good barometer for me and I respect anyone who has put up the kinds of stats that Lewis has, but... I'm one of those types who looks at six-ten win drivers like Ronnie Peterson and Gilles Villeneuve and holds them in just as high a regard due to the way they drove. Neither had great equipment for very long in their careers (Villeneuve drove some of the, if not the worst Ferraris ever put onto an F1 track) but you watch footage from the period and see them sliding sideways on full opposite lock clearly not giving a single shit about their tyres and you can't help but smile.

 

Some of the best ever didn't even win a race. Chris Amon was so, so good and yet he never quite managed to get past the chequered flag first.

 

...and Alonso I guess? I feel like we’ve missed out on what could have been an incredible rivalry between him and Hamilton if it had been able to continue all the way from the early dramas. Alonso’s had the maybe the worst McLarens and some pretty bad Ferraris hasn’t he?

 

Will he be as well remembered as Hamilton?

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1 hour ago, morcs said:

 

...and Alonso I guess? I feel like we’ve missed out on what could have been an incredible rivalry between him and Hamilton if it had been able to continue all the way from the early dramas. Alonso’s had the maybe the worst McLarens and some pretty bad Ferraris hasn’t he?

 

Will he be as well remembered as Hamilton?

 

He'll be remembered the same as Villeneuve etc

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18 hours ago, mexos said:

 

Wins, championships, poles. The stats that matter. What other stats trump these in importance?

 

Everyone can and will have their opinion on who was the best. Emotion and preference comes into play. Nothing wrong with that at all. 

 

And given that, here's some reasons I just don't quite rate Lewis up there.

 

His win percentage is smashed by Fangio if we're going numbers. Absolute stats can't be used across eras, same with poles.

 

Championships, maybe but it feels relevant that all but 1 of his has come with a near unprecedented level of dominance by 1 team, and he fucked one of those up too.  Same with Vettel there.  Neither Schumacher or Fangio had that, Fangio won his 5 championships in 6 years with 4 different teams for instance.

 

The other thing is, the greats perform regardless, both Vettel and Lewis have a very nasty habit of going wandering off if the car isn't perfect.  Lewis got his arse absolutely handed to him by Jenson Button and of course blew a championship in the same car against Niko Rosberg somehow.  Vettel got dicked over by near rookie Ricciardo and given Kimi's closeness he probably shouldn't bank of LeClerc being a pushover.

 

Schumacher? I don't think he ever got beaten by a teammate in a full season until his very ill-advised comeback.  You could absolutely judge him on that but I think it'd be unwise. Senna too, while he had Prost get the better of him once, just, his drives when cars weren't great are legendary.

 

I just can't help but think if Lewis or Vettel had come into F1 in a Toleman, in a Toleman they would have stayed.  If they'd come into f1 in the 1991 Jordan they'd have punted around behind Andrea for 5 races and then gone back to sportscars.

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14 hours ago, GwiDan said:

I find it more interesting to discuss who the worst driver on the grid is than the best at this point. Hard to say whether it's Stroll or Ericsson. 

 

When our worst 2 drivers are an F3 European champion and a multiple GP2 race winner we're doing pretty well aren't we?  It's not like the days of Pedro Chaves, who came into F1 with a single points finish in 3 years of the GP2 equivalent back then. Or Paul Belmondo with 3 points in 5 years of same. Or Giovanni Lavaggi who, fresh from scoring 0 (zero) points in F3000 failed to quality a Minardi half the time when every single other driver in that car never failed. And there were a few, this is mid-90's Minardi.

 

That said, it's Ericsson.  Stroll's had the golden spoon no doubt about it and unfair and probably illegal amounts of testing aside he DID win F3 Europe against drivers like George Russell.

 

Whereas Marcus is classic journeyman with 4 years in GP2 never looking in any danger of contending for anything much and now he can't even hold onto his drive with the team his dad has an interest in.

 

Stroll's simply a victim of rising standards.  In the 90s, which fields were split by 10 seconds and any idiot could buy a drive he'd be a very respectable driver, especially with a couple of years at Minardi or Footwork to learn in.  Now? When next year's incoming class includes a rookie F2 and GP3 champion, a guy with 5 lower tier titles and a rookie 3rd with a rookie team in F2 and quite possibly a guy with a pair of 2nds in F2 and GP3 in 3 years the competition is a lot stiffer.

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12 hours ago, NexivRed said:

Sorry, that’s so lame isn’t it. But jewellery/watches are the first thing I clock on most people. 

 

One of my favourite ridiculous things about this whole inherently-ridiculous sport is that Hamilton's left glove has a picture of an expensive wristwatch printed on it.

 

ham.png.af43e996f8b98eaa6669a4a5b3a42835.png

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Schumacher was always the number one driver in his teams and never had a teammate as good as Rosberg before he retired the first time. I don't think Schumacher would have done as well with the testing restrictions in place these days. Yes he could drive a bad car to race wins but he'd be doing it in a car he'd been doing hundreds of laps at Fiorano the week before and on Bridgestone tyres designed specifically for his car.

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14 minutes ago, beenabadbunny said:

 

One of my favourite ridiculous things about this whole inherently-ridiculous sport is that Hamilton's left glove has a picture of an expensive wristwatch printed on it.

 

ham.png.af43e996f8b98eaa6669a4a5b3a42835.png

As did Rosberg and Bottas has it too, it's a team sponsor.

 

I'm not a fan of a particular driver but the there's a laughable amount of goalpost moving when it comes to discussing how good Hamilton is. He can only perform with the machinery he is given and he wouldn't be given that machinery if he couldn't deliver results.

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Hamilton beat Button in 2 of the 3 seasons together and had more wins. 

 

To think Hamilton is not one of the greatest racers ever is madness. The guy has 5 titles! 5! 

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40 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

And given that, here's some reasons I just don't quite rate Lewis up there.

 

His win percentage is smashed by Fangio if we're going numbers. Absolute stats can't be used across eras, same with poles.

 

Championships, maybe but it feels relevant that all but 1 of his has come with a near unprecedented level of dominance by 1 team, and he fucked one of those up too.  Same with Vettel there.  Neither Schumacher or Fangio had that, Fangio won his 5 championships in 6 years with 4 different teams for instance.

 

The other thing is, the greats perform regardless, both Vettel and Lewis have a very nasty habit of going wandering off if the car isn't perfect.  Lewis got his arse absolutely handed to him by Jenson Button and of course blew a championship in the same car against Niko Rosberg somehow.  Vettel got dicked over by near rookie Ricciardo and given Kimi's closeness he probably shouldn't bank of LeClerc being a pushover.

 

Schumacher? I don't think he ever got beaten by a teammate in a full season until his very ill-advised comeback.  You could absolutely judge him on that but I think it'd be unwise. Senna too, while he had Prost get the better of him once, just, his drives when cars weren't great are legendary.

 

I just can't help but think if Lewis or Vettel had come into F1 in a Toleman, in a Toleman they would have stayed.  If they'd come into f1 in the 1991 Jordan they'd have punted around behind Andrea for 5 races and then gone back to sportscars.

:lol: 

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11 minutes ago, wev said:

As did Rosberg and Bottas has it too, it's a team sponsor.

 

I'm not a fan of a particular driver but the there's a laughable amount of goalpost moving when it comes to discussing how good Hamilton is. He can only perform with the machinery he is given and he wouldn't be given that machinery if he couldn't deliver results.

 

It's not a dig at Hamilton, I like him.  I just find it a bit absurd that a presumably non-trivial amount of people will buy one of those watches just because there's a picture of one on the Mercedes F1 team uniforms.

 

I realise all I'm doing is describing the phenomenon of advertising.

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1 hour ago, ryodi said:

Schumacher was always the number one driver in his teams and never had a teammate as good as Rosberg before he retired the first time. I don't think Schumacher would have done as well with the testing restrictions in place these days. Yes he could drive a bad car to race wins but he'd be doing it in a car he'd been doing hundreds of laps at Fiorano the week before and on Bridgestone tyres designed specifically for his car.

 

True, although I think you're underselling at least Brundle in that.  Of course most of that applied to the 20 years of Ferrari drivers who couldn't win a championship for them before Schumacher came along.

 

I will say, I can't think of another driver offhand other than Senna and Schumacher that would have won in the Lotus 99T or Ferrari F310. Although I'll grant you I'd bet on Lewis a lot time before I'd bet on Vettel.

 

A motivated Alonso maybe but it's been a long time since we've really seen one of those.

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47 minutes ago, PC Master Race said:

Hai guyz. Remember Schumacher, yea he didn’t win most of his championships in a completely dominant car, and certainly didn’t run off into retirement when that was no longer the case. 

 

I would say only in 2002 and 2004 did Schumacher have a "Completely dominant car" to the degree of Mercedes 2014-2017 or Vettel's best Red Bulls.

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I think Dudley makes some very valid points. What Hamilton has done along the way is remarkable, but look at the times when his team mate hasn't been a chumpion, and I'd lever the same criticism of Vettel. Who one could argue choked the championship in front of his home fans. Can you see Shumacher or Senna and or Prost get a shoeing by a team mate round Monza?

 

I also think the fact the numbers are now in his favour by a massive margin, the number of chances to win/get pole/score points has increased two fold compared to some of those mentioned previously. You do make your own luck though, see the fortunes of Alonso who would have thought leaving Mclolren would have been a cast iron guarantee of championship number 3. Instead he's spent the last decade hauling cars about the grid to places that flatter the machinery, and also having a ridiculous number of incidents with absolute fuckwits like Stroll as he's having to start with the international retard consortium down the back half of the grid.

 

Have they sorted out the engine regs for whenever they were supposed to change? that's the only likely scenario that will see the grid fortunes of most teams reversed. You need to drag someone into the fray like Porsche with a power unit....

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51 minutes ago, Baring said:

Hamilton beat Button in 2 of the 3 seasons together and had more wins. 

 

Would Button have been remembered as anything more than a (Jonny) Herbert if it wasn't for the amazing Brawn story though?

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1 minute ago, morcs said:

 

Would Button have been remembered as anything more than a (Jonny) Herbert if it wasn't for the amazing Brawn story though?

 

Harsh, Herbert was never at that level post feet incident. And who can forget that win in Canada for Button? the stuff of legend.

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Just now, marsh said:

And who can forget that win in Canada for Button? the stuff of legend.

 

That was after Brawn though wasn't it? If it wasn't for the Brawn year would he have been in a McLaren in that Canada race?

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It's hard to compare Lewis's achievments with past drivers because they're different. Schumacher for example was involved in creating the cars so much more than drivers can be today, he was part of the reason he had a dominant car for alot of his career,  it's different these days where Lewis is handed a front runner which he then has to find that tiny bit of perfomance, the hardest bit to find, compared to the other front runners, a different task and whos to say which makes who better.

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4 minutes ago, morcs said:

 

That was after Brawn though wasn't it? If it wasn't for the Brawn year would he have been in a McLaren in that Canada race?

 

You'd have to ask Martin Whitmarsh. I reckon he'd done enough by peddling that shit Honda/BAR around for a while to warrant a go in something half decent. Herbert got properly bummed in the gob in that F3 accident and then got another going over when Briatore ended up running Benetton. From that point on it was a crap shoot really, he was lucky he won a formula 1 race at all really.

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If Alonso was less of nightmare to work with he'd still have a chance at a top level drive in F1. The question these days is with all of the top teams having young driver programmes if Schumacher started today in a Williams for example he'd be blocked from getting a better drive at a Top 3 team or even Toro Rosso because they have young drivers on their books ahead of him in the pecking order.

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Literally so in fact, Schumacher was a Mercedes driver in WSC and thus would presumably have been a Mercedes junior, meaning he'd run into the same problems Pascal, Esteban and George are.

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3 hours ago, Baring said:

Hamilton beat Button in 2 of the 3 seasons together and had more wins. 

 

To think Hamilton is not one of the greatest racers ever is madness. The guy has 5 titles! 5! 

With a tiny bit more reliability Lewis would already be a 7 times world champion and we would be talking about how many more he would get and if anyone would ever be able to match it.

 

Anyone who thinks Lewis is not one of the best ever is talking bollocks and is no F1 follower. 

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The start of the Mexico though; you cannot argue that Lewis can’t get the best out of a car and isn’t exceptionally talented. He pulled in right between one and two immediately, so seeing as they’re all manual drive and I don’t think Mercedes have the quickest acceleration(?), that’s just amazing and purely down to his ability to weild the car. As I don’t think it was even down to anticipating the green light, was it? Not like that crazy start by....Bottas? My absolutely awful memory does not serve me well when it comes to discussing my interests :lol:

 

I’m really interested to watch Hamilton’s game plan for the next two races. I hope he doesn’t pull back in the slightest, because I think his skill is part of what is pushing Verstappen to be the driver he is. Just hope he doesn’t take it too far and have a bad crash. 

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