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POLL: What is the best 3D Mario platformer ever made?

What is the best 3D Mario platformer ever made?  

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12 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

I thought I was being perfectly clear, but what I meant is that Sunshine is the Devil May Cry 2 of Mario games. The Street Fighter V of Mario games, if you will.

 

Yeah, I get the analogy :) 

 

I was just doing a Spainkiller-esque little defense quip on the side of RE6. I dig that dumb game. 

Devil May Cry 2 is indeed, total pish. 

Street Fighter V is totally not pish. 

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Sunshine having nearly as many votes as Mario Galaxy 2 can be added to Trump and Brexit as cold stone proof that you should never trust the public with important decisions.

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3 hours ago, Kirby said:

My ranking is Galaxy 1 > Galaxy 2 > Sunshine > 3D World > 64.

 

Super Mario Galaxy has the perfect blend of inventive self-contained levels and a charming atmosphere. The soundtrack is easily the best of all the titles which helps too. I'd rank 3D World higher if it didn't have time limits and a run button, neither of which belong in 3D Mario in my opinion. 64 is still a good game, but the level design is bland compared to later titles. I think people rate it highly due to nostalgia.

 

I haven't played 3D Land or Odyssey as I don't own the required consoles.

 

What the fuck?

 

3D World and 64 worse than Sunshine?!

 

This thread is an embarrassment 

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29 minutes ago, Kirby said:

Incidentally, the poll is incomplete. You should list Super Mario 64 DS as a separate entry, since it differs significantly from the original with 4 playable characters rather than 1 (each with unique abilities) and extra stars to collect.

 

And isn't fit to bear the name "Mario", so doesn't count.

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3D World in 4 player is probably the best gaming experience I've ever had. A group of us met every Saturday for months and played 4 player until we'd completely clocked it.

 

Don't bother with single player.

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19 minutes ago, Kirby said:

 

It was groundbreaking at the time, but if you replay it you'll realise the level design is very basic and many levels consist of simply collecting coins or other fetch quests. The expansive levels of Sunshine are superior to those of 64, not to mention the movement options provided by F.L.U.D.D.

 

The expansive levels of Sunshine are shit. I get why they had to do them (because of the FLUDD's hovering ability) but they slow down and ruin the whole pace of the game. As someone else said, with FLUDD and hovering, it doesn't feel like a Mario game at all - it feels like a 3D adventure game with some platforming thrown in. The levels are bigger, which means jumps are fewer, more spread out, and it essentially feels like a totally different game - it feels more like a sequel to a Banjo game than a Mario game.

 

Also, Sunshine is far worse at collect/fetch quests than any other Mario game - it has almost DK64 levels of items to collect. It's rubbish.

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Blimey, this has proven to be pretty divisive. 

 

At least we can take some comfort that if we were to do a "What is the best 3D Zelda" there would be no argument that Wind Waker would come out on top.

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I'm not that impressed with Odyssey overall. The design's so incoherent it's actually jarring, like every world was developed by different studios then slapped together at the last minute. And the post-game seems to consist of just wandering around trying stuff at random in the hope you'll get a moon.  I prefer my Mario games to be more focussed, which doesn't mean I don't enjoy the exploration games like 64 and Sunshine, more that I like to at least have a clear objective of what I'm trying to achieve before I begin.

 

I voted Galaxy, not just for the quality of its levels or its platforming (which are sublime) but because the whole concept was just so well executed.  Every level in that game shows you something you've never seen before, but it all fits together perfectly and it all feels exactly like a Mario game should.

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(Occasional poster weighs in)

I actually didn't vote because I couldn't decide. I think Galaxy is my favourite, but I haven't played all the options so don't feel qualified to judge.

 

Like other posters, I love the intricate mechanical bits of platforming in Mario games best. The Beat-Block Galaxy in Galaxy 2, for instance. It just feels so *cool*.

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4 hours ago, Isaac said:

 

The expansive levels of Sunshine are shit. I get why they had to do them (because of the FLUDD's hovering ability) but they slow down and ruin the whole pace of the game. As someone else said, with FLUDD and hovering, it doesn't feel like a Mario game at all - it feels like a 3D adventure game with some platforming thrown in. The levels are bigger, which means jumps are fewer, more spread out, and it essentially feels like a totally different game - it feels more like a sequel to a Banjo game than a Mario game.

 

Also, Sunshine is far worse at collect/fetch quests than any other Mario game - it has almost DK64 levels of items to collect. It's rubbish.

 

Nothing in Sunshine is shit, it's one of Nintendo's best games.. it's a delightful and fun platforming adventure. You might dislike it, but that's your prerogative. 

It's just different, they implemented a different core mechanic to give us something new to play with, but a large percentage of gamers are totally conservative and of course instantly ready to dismiss anything that doesn't matches preconceptions, and chuck it straight in the "shit" bin. 

 

Mario Sunshine conjures a very vivid memory for me, after finishing the game and being delighted with it back in 2002, I discovered both ntsc-uk and the old Edge forum, and was totally shocked to read that it was generally loathed by those communities. 

I didn't understand it then and I still don't now. Well, I do. People just wanted Mario 64 2 and I guess it wasn't it.

I'm sure if you stuck a different main character in there, people would likely be somewhat less harsh.

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Regardless of which anyone thinks is best, I'd like to think that we could agree that all the 3D Mario titles have been very good games, certainly when compared with similar platformers from other developers.

 

The real debate is 2D Mario VS 3D Mario: which is better? (3D, obviously).

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20 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Mario Sunshine conjures a very vivid memory for me, after finishing the game and being delighted with it back in 2002, I discovered both ntsc-uk and the old Edge forum, and was totally shocked to read that it was generally loathed by those communities. 

I didn't understand it then and I still don't now. Well, I do. People just wanted Mario 64 2 and I guess it wasn't it.

I'm sure if you stuck a different main character in there, people would likely be somewhat less harsh.

4

 

I mean, fair enough if you like it nostalgically, but it is objectively Nintendo's buggiest Mario game. It's terribly paced, full of padding, and over a third of the game's challenges are collect-a-thons.

 

It's also got an objectively shit camera - it commits the cardinal sin of auto-rotating the camera mid-jump. Every time you use the hover ability the camera moves behind Mario, regardless of where it's positioned previously. This means that time and time again you need to totally change the direction of movement of the left stick between jumps because the camera moves automatically. It's really, really shit design.

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14 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

I mean, fair enough if you like it nostalgically, but it is objectively Nintendo's buggiest Mario game. It's terribly paced, full of padding, and over a third of the game's challenges are collect-a-thons.

 

It's also got an objectively shit camera - it commits the cardinal sin of auto-rotating the camera mid-jump. Every time you use the hover ability the camera moves behind Mario, regardless of where it's positioned previously. This means that time and time again you need to totally change the direction of movement of the left stick between jumps because the camera moves automatically. It's really, really shit design.

 

 

See, none of this stuff matters and by totally fixating on minor niggles it means the large picture is totally glossed over and the whole thing is dismissed as shit. Buggiest game? might be, but I've never encountered a single bug during several play-throughs.. never. There's a plethora of games that I played through in totally unfinished states on launch that were still fun despite being crippled with bugs. In the grand scheme of things, it a pretty finished and complete game. 

The collection elements are there to provide pace and variation. People can leverage that complaint with even Mario Odyssey, that there's many "empty" moons that are awarded through play and curiosity. In Sunshine they're also there to push you to explore the open levels, all of these games would suffer with there exclusion. 

 

I have never had a problem with the camera. It's that typical Japanese thing where the camera movement is scripted to lead you, but as soon as you move the C-stick, it's disengaged. You could make the same complaint about Mario 64, but it totally doesn't matter. But rarr, rarr, raarr, shit design etc. 

 

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I thought Sunshine was wonderful. With Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine, Nintendo were changing their approach to their games. Cutting down on development time to create smaller games i think means to not be expected to create The Best Game Ever. More frequency of releases means they can go in more interesting directions, and Sunshine definitely does, it has a flavour and vibe that no Mario has, and few games have. I think Odyssey borrows a lot from it.

 

It's a flawed gem.

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3 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

You could make the same complaint about Mario 64

 

 

 

No, you couldn't. Mario 64 didn't change the camera mid-jump every time you used a certain ability (like Sunshine does). Mario 64 had a tight camera with smaller, tighter levels, which prevented it getting stuck on scenery or not showing you the whole picture. Sunshine's camera frequently gets fucked and is fucked every single time you use the hover ability and you don't already have the camera behind Mario.

 

I think the main issue is giving Mario the ability to hover circumvents the whole point of a Mario game, and the developers realised this halfway through the project and didn't have time to fix it.

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3 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

No, you couldn't. Mario 64 didn't change the camera mid-jump every time you used a certain ability (like Sunshine does). Mario 64 had a tight camera with smaller, tighter levels, which prevented it getting stuck on scenery or not showing you the whole picture. Sunshine's camera frequently gets fucked and is fucked every single time you use the hover ability and you don't already have the camera behind Mario.

 

I think the main issue is giving Mario the ability to hover circumvents the whole point of a Mario game, and the developers realised this halfway through the project and didn't have time to fix it.

 

Like I said, this is general camera complaints and I've never ever found the camera to be problematic, It's far more intuitive that the c-button controls used in Mario 64. This hardly reason to outright fervently hate the game with such vitriol. 

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4 hours ago, Jolly said:

Blimey, this has proven to be pretty divisive. 

 

At least we can take some comfort that if we were to do a "What is the best 3D Zelda" there would be no argument that Wind Waker would come out on top.

 

Hmm...

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2 hours ago, Kirby said:

 

I found the Mario 64 camera inferior to that of Sunshine, it required greater manual control and didn't adjust well to changes of direction. Perhaps depends on your play style.

 

I agree.

I suppose it's easier to forgive Mario 64's camera though.

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7 minutes ago, Fatsam said:

I agree.

I suppose it's easier to forgive Mario 64's camera though.

 

Sections which required accurate jumps in Mario 64 were awkward. The star atop the mushroom on Tall Tall Mountain sticks out as a time where I'd try to view from various angles just to try calculate the distance. Same with the ski-lift platform on Cool Cool Mountain and loads of bits on Rainbow Ride, even with the clever decision to keep Mario's shadow directly below him. I'd imagine that's why the game ended up with such an exploratory focus in the first place.

 

Sunshine's design felt like a deliberate answer to the difficulties of platforming in a 3D without the sense of depth. Fluud was a way to fix the easy-to-make mistake of jumping too far or too short. Galaxy added the spin for similar reasons and tried to stick to fixed angles for trickier sections.

 

3D Land had the luxury of stereoscopic 3D to make those judgements a whole lot easier. Because they designed the game as a purer platformer, they stuck to strict camera angles, 8-way movement and block-like design where lots of distances could be judged relatively easily even without 3D. It was more to my taste because of that.

 

My ideal Mario game would probably be another 3D Land but with ice skating Mario from Galaxy and lots of costumed Shy Guys, thanks.

 

 

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999 Moons on Odyssey is extremely exhausting. I see it as a long-haul thing, and not necessarily something that should be done in one shot.

I prefer to stop at the 400/500 mark and then dip back in for a few more now and then, over the years. Something I wish I could still do with 64/Galaxy.

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On 12/02/2018 at 17:20, Kirby said:

 

I found the Mario 64 camera inferior to that of Sunshine, it required greater manual control and didn't adjust well to changes of direction. Perhaps depends on your play style.

 

I've said before, but I play Sunshine (and many other games since - I noticed I was doing it on GTA5 last night) by "steering" left and right with the right stick, rather than the left stick. You always have complete control of the camera then.

 

So if you're running in a straight line and want to veer left, you nudge the right stick to the right, rather than the left stick to the left. 

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