Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[MardiganX]

See, now this mini-boss type (I appreciate he probably isn’t a mini-boss but it’s what it felt like) has just fallen. Not because I spammed potions or came back with a bigger stick but because I learned his attacks and most importantly what NOT to do. It felt brilliant watching him fall. Better than it felt with any enemy or boss in any previous From game because it felt really rewarding as opposed to a fucking relief. If this pattern continues, albeit a million times more technical and challenging, then I might just fall in love with Sekiro.

[robdood]

21 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

See, now this mini-boss type (I appreciate he probably isn’t a mini-boss but it’s what it felt like) has just fallen. Not because I spammed potions or came back with a bigger stick but because I learned his attacks and most importantly what NOT to do. It felt brilliant watching him fall. Better than it felt with any enemy or boss in any previous From game because it felt really rewarding as opposed to a fucking relief. If this pattern continues, albeit a million times more technical and challenging, then I might just fall in love with Sekiro.

Dude this game is basically From having a go at something a bit more like Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden and it's fucking incredible. 

 

There are still some mazey bits and some obtuse bits, but it's way more straightforward than their usual stuff. 

[MardiganX]

Calling it a night after a few hours of arse skelping madness. Progressed to a battle against a sumo type guy that spits poison inside a burning estate, which I expect isn’t very far at all, possibly still tutorial type territory but I’m happy with it

 

It feels like the most important thing, like all good combat systems, is not doing more than you need to. Like resisting the urge to dodge all the time or understand that defending and parrying is as powerful as actually attacking enemies. There is a flow and grace about it all that I’ve found entirely absent in all other From games so it’s great to see a lot of what traumatised me in those other games is either gone or fine tuned here. I still have no idea how to use posture effectively but it’s clear the management of that little bar is the key to being really good.

 

I hope I’m in for the long haul on this now and will report back after I’ve made some actual ‘beat a proper boss’ type progress. 

[Talvalin]

After moving to a new flat (that my wife and I own), I have finally managed to track down the TV remote (the TV will not work without the remote for some reason) and can get back to the final boss after three days of not playing. I'm going to be rubbish lol.

[Benny]

I like this escalation of life goals.

 

"Finally, I own my own place... But I still haven't beaten Sekiro."

[Benny]

And if you want to know a little secret to successful deflects: keep L1 held down, and then release and hold it again in a sort of feathering motion in time with attacks. This ensures, even if your timing is off for some attacks, you will always be blocking and won't usually be punished for missing deflects.

 

I think the game almost certainly appears harder for those who do not learn the above, but the game doesn't specifically teach you to do it.

[Talvalin]

On 14/08/2022 at 09:02, MardiganX said:

Like resisting the urge to dodge all the time or understand that defending and parrying is as powerful as actually attacking enemies. There is a flow and grace about it all that I’ve found entirely absent in all other From games so it’s great to see a lot of what traumatised me in those other games is either gone or fine tuned here. I still have no idea how to use posture effectively but it’s clear the management of that little bar is the key to being really good.

 

You've basically stated it above. Some enemies can have their posture bar built up very quickly by attacking them (even if they block your attacks) or by having their attacks deflected (there is one specific mini-boss that will do combos at you, and deflecting all of the attacks twice over will give you a Deathblow immediately).

 

Other enemies will recover posture very quickly (you're going to meet one of them very soon if you get past the drunken mini-boss in the Hirata Estate!), and so you have to whittle down their health which in turn will reduce their posture recovery speed.

 

In practice, some bosses will require you to remove almost all of their health before their posture can be built up via deflections, and it may be less risky to continue reducing their health instead of reducing it to a certain point, trying to deflect attacks and then buggering it up. Nothing hurts more than building up a boss's posture bar through excellent deflecting, dying, resurrecting and then watching the bosses posture bar quickly disappear.

 

PS That sumo guy is pretty tough early on. You might want to try exploring the main story area a bit more.

[Talvalin]

Just now, Benny said:

And if you want to know a little secret to successful deflects: keep L1 held down, and then release and hold it again in a sort of feathering motion in time with attacks. This ensures, even if your timing is off for some attacks, you will always be blocking and won't usually be punished for missing deflects.

 

I think the have almost certainly appears harder for those who do not learn the above, but the game doesn't specifically teach you to do it.

Speaking on behalf of a "friend", spamming the button can also work in some scenarios.

[Benny]

Yeah that's essentially what I meant: you can spam it as long as L1 is held down at the start and end of the action. It's a real lifesaver and gives you time to learn patterns.

[MardiganX]

@Talvalin Eh, I’m not playing the main story? I know I stuck a wee bell thing in front of the Buddha back at HQ but had no idea it was a deviation 🙄

 

Loving this ‘hold block and release - tap’ for parrying as a method rather than learning an entire library of parry timing sequences, haha. Will adopt that when I get back in.

[Talvalin]

4 hours ago, MardiganX said:

@Talvalin Eh, I’m not playing the main story? I know I stuck a wee bell thing in front of the Buddha back at HQ but had no idea it was a deviation 🙄

 

Loving this ‘hold block and release - tap’ for parrying as a method rather than learning an entire library of parry timing sequences, haha. Will adopt that when I get back in.

 

IIRC, all of that section is optional, but it's well worth it as the area contains two upgrades for your Prosthetic Tool, a couple of Prayer Beads from the mini-bosses (four of which allow you to upgrade vitality and posture) and a memory from the main boss (which allows you to upgrade your attack power), amongst other things.

[PikaStu]

On 14/08/2022 at 01:02, MardiganX said:

Calling it a night after a few hours of arse skelping madness. Progressed to a battle against a sumo type guy that spits poison inside a burning estate, which I expect isn’t very far at all, possibly still tutorial type territory but I’m happy with it . 

I keep coming back to this guy. The method I saw on YouTube was to

Spoiler

attract his attention, then run away. He should walk over to the water then forget about you and wander back.

At this point you sneak up for a stealth kill, taking one whole life bar off him.

Then have him follow you through the water to where the NPC ally is standing. Quickly talk to the NPC who will then attack the drunkard, allowing you to spam from behind (ooh missus!). Mind use oil and flames to eat away at his life bar.

 

That’s the theory anyway, as shown in a YouTube video I saw. I haven’t been able to pull it off yet 😞

 

As far as my own progress goes, I managed to sneak past the big snake, into a castle courtyard where there’s a dude on a horse. He’s a bit tough, totally annihilated me, sending me back to before the snake. Either I’ve missed a save point or the game is incredibly cruel!

[Talvalin]

33 minutes ago, PikaStu said:

As far as my own progress goes, I managed to sneak past the big snake, into a castle courtyard where there’s a dude on a horse. He’s a bit tough, totally annihilated me, sending me back to before the snake. Either I’ve missed a save point or the game is incredibly cruel!

 

If I had to take a guess, once you reached the lower wall of the area just before that boss on the horse, you went left and not right yes? Try going right next time and you'll find your Sculptor's Idol. From there, you can run/grapple past all of the standard enemies to get to the boss.

 

Tip for that boss:

Spoiler

Run after him when he gallops away from you, as you'll get a grapple marker above his head which allows you to close the distance and get a few attacks in. If he gets too far away from you, he'll gallop back in your direction with some attacks that are a lot harder to avoid that the ones he does when you're up close!

 

[robdood]

21 hours ago, MardiganX said:

@Talvalin Eh, I’m not playing the main story? I know I stuck a wee bell thing in front of the Buddha back at HQ but had no idea it was a deviation 🙄

 

Loving this ‘hold block and release - tap’ for parrying as a method rather than learning an entire library of parry timing sequences, haha. Will adopt that when I get back in.

This random clip I made way back when did number on the ol YouTube! 

 

 

 

Tldr block everything when fighting a new enemy. Listen to the sound. Use that to get the press timing. 

[Ravern]

On 14/08/2022 at 17:36, Benny said:

And if you want to know a little secret to successful deflects: keep L1 held down, and then release and hold it again in a sort of feathering motion in time with attacks. This ensures, even if your timing is off for some attacks, you will always be blocking and won't usually be punished for missing deflects.

 

I think the game almost certainly appears harder for those who do not learn the above, but the game doesn't specifically teach you to do it.

 

This is an interesting trick, especially given the (clearly deliberate, opposite to Dark Souls) design choice of regaining posture (stamina in DS) when guard is up rather than down, which seems therefore to positively encourage this type of thing.

[CheekyMonkey]

I've just started replaying this. I did get pretty far before - up to the OF in Hirata. Even though it was an optional fight I refused to give in, and literally tore my hear out trying to do it. That was quite a while ago and I'm sure jumping back in now I would have lost all of the muscle memory and timing, so will just start from scratch.

 

It's just as hard as I remember and equally as satisfying and brilliant. I just love how it doesn't need to inundate you with armour, weapons etc. Even the prosthetic isn't hugely useful (some bits would be damn hard without some tools though that's for sure) and the skill tree is pretty limited. It mostly comes down to you and your blade - very awesome.

 

In fact, where is the sequel???? 🙂

[JPL]

1 hour ago, CheekyMonkey said:

In fact, where is the sequel???? 🙂

I think they’ve been busy making that little game called Elden Ring or something!

[Talvalin]

After three days of not playing the game, I was rubbish at first (dying to the first phase of the final boss so many times it was almost a joke, considering how easily I was romping through that last week). An hour or two or battling through before I finally reached the final phase (dying very soon afterwards due to the new Perilous Attack), died a whole lot during earlier phases, reached the final phase a second time, didn't panic this time and won.

 

Such a great boss - possibly one of Fromsoft's very best (albeit this is coming from someone who has never played Demon Souls, Bloodborne nor got to the end of DS3 Ringed City DLC. Ahem). We'll leave out the time when I was running away with the camera pointed at the boss to try and make some space to recover my posture and ran straight off the cliff shall we?

 

Straight into NG+ and thought that I would be blasting through the game with all of my gourds, Prosthetic Tool items etc etc. The first two mini-bosses went down fast (although to be fair, I spammed Combat Arts at the second one because I couldn't be bothered to deflect, which didn't work all that well. Not having the Mortal Blade at this stage is mildly annoying as Mortal Draw was OP to say the least) but anyway. Things were all fine, until I got to the first of our red-eyed friends who grabbed me and tossed me over his back, straight into the abyss. That would have been perfectly fine, butI had too little health to recover and so instant death. Heh.

[CheekyMonkey]

4 hours ago, JPL said:

I think they’ve been busy making that little game called Elden Ring or something!

 

Pfft... that's a 5 minute job they could have given to the intern. 🤣

Actually for this game to still be as awesome as it is after I've just finished Elden Ring speaks volumes (and just to be clear I LOVED Elden Ring it might just be my #1 game of all time). 

[MardiganX]

QQ... crowd control when that crowd includes a 'mini-boss'? I went back to the main story and made a little progress but dealing with a 2 bar General and a variety of grunts and not quite sure how best to deal with it. Current approach is stealth kill a couple minions, take out the others while running about mental creating distance from the General and repeating that every time I die

[Benny]

Tricky without knowing which section you're at, but at most of those places there's usually some way of stealthily taking everything out first or getting around them to take the mini boss on alone.

[MardiganX]

6 minutes ago, Benny said:

Tricky without knowing which section you're at, but at most of those places there's usually some way of stealthily taking everything out first or getting around them to take the mini boss on alone.

 

Its a Courtyard area immediately after a bit where I beat a big red eyed Ogre who was chained up before he burst free and started throwing his considerable weight around  the Genera dude is standing in the middle of the Courtyard surrounded by his goons like an utter shite bag.

[HarryBizzle]

Sounds like you’re at the bit after the red eyed ogre thing? Like a mini-boss down below in a sort of crater and guards all around?

 

edit: Yeah. That bit was a real sticking point for me. I pretty much kited a lot of the enemies away, which is fairly difficult to do. It was still early on and I hadn’t got my partying down, but if you do you can kill the boss fairly quickly. 
 

You can also (minor spoiler):

 

Spoiler

Just run past that section and come back later. 

 

[Benny]

Ah that bit.

 

Incidentally I think I

 

Spoiler

Systematically took out all the enemies before fighting him, it's doable but it takes some time and planning. Very satisfying though.

 

[Gigawatt]

44 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

 

Its a Courtyard area immediately after a bit where I beat a big red eyed Ogre who was chained up before he burst free and started throwing his considerable weight around  the Genera dude is standing in the middle of the Courtyard surrounded by his goons like an utter shite bag.

 

Run past them all and jump down off the cliff behind where there is a 'bonfire'.  Rest there, then jump back up, kill the first guy you see and then jump up and to the left on top of the big wall where there is a dude with a gong who alerts everyone else.  Kill him, and then you can quite quickly take everyone else out before taking on the mini-boss.

[MardiganX]

Thanks for the tips guys. In the end the clearing of the minions got messy before I was able to reset the General's awareness and get a deathblow to kick-off proceedings. After that a disciplined sequence of step backs and parries with no more than 2 attacks at a time dealt with him fairly easily. I say 'fairly easily' but what I really mean is I've spent a lot of time and deaths getting to this point where a new section has become a playground rather than a kill box

 

I know I am still fairly on but Sekiro feels like what I always wanted Souls games to feel like. Where it was purely about the challenge of the combat and no amount of death cycles could ever feel boring or painful. Returnal broke through something for me when it was released where I simply could not put the controller down no matter how tough things got and Sekiro seems to have that magic aswell.

[Strafe]

Holy fucking shit

 

FINAL BOSS SPOILER WARNING!!!!

Spoiler

 

 

[Benny]

@Strafe

 

Spoiler

That would be a spoiler for anyone currently playing the game for the first time, just to mention

 

[Talvalin]

@Strafe

I realise the game has been out for a few years now, but there was literally a person posting above you who is clearly on their first playthrough. Use spoilers please! Also what the absolute fucking hell was that?

 

I tried using the Mist Raven and couldn't get the hang of it, but clearly I need to get on board with it. I guess now that I have it right of NG+, I can practice on the rank and file at the start of the game.

 

Btw, am I cheesing the game by keeping Kuro's Charm? For that matter, how many people here did NG+ or beyond? It occurs to me that three playthroughs is more than enough, so I will save scum to avoid a fourth.

[Strafe]

My bad. I hadn’t been reading through the thread.

 

Note, if you’re having issues with Sekiro very early doors you can click on the spoiler as it’s probably the only way you’ll see it.