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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice


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1 hour ago, joemul said:

Haha - the From shakes. I swear one evening I almost keeled over from the adrenaline of beating a From boss. 

It’s a thing isn’t it :lol: Of course now I’m on GA and by Christ he’s not any easier is he. 

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You know I loved this but found it unbelievably tough. It seemed like any bit of progress was met with a boss or mini boss that literally bitch slapped you hard. I got to some monkey bastard and caved.

 

Its the only From game I never completed, and it irks me.

 

I need to face the fucking music and man up.

 

re installing 

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7 minutes ago, Dave White said:

You know I loved this but found it unbelievably tough. It seemed like any bit of progress was met with a boss or mini boss that literally bitch slapped you hard. I got to some monkey bastard and caved.

 

Its the only From game I never completed, and it irks me.

 

I need to face the fucking music and man up.

 

re installing 

That’s where I am now, that monkey bastard! 

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Ape escape advice

 

Spoilerthe Guardian Ape, then I feel it exists to be the opposite of Genichiro. Now you’ve proven you can deflect and stand your ground and keep pressure on here’s a boss where that isn’t useful and your actually going after health rather than posture. 
 

The Guardian Ape exists to be the opposite of genichiro. Now your used to deflecting here’s a boss where that’s doesn’t work well. Keep running; keep moving at a middle distance. 
 

when he flings shit; run directly towards him and under. When he lands you’ll have chance for a few hits.

 

use flame (spring loaded if you have it) as he burns just as long as he’s shocked by firecrackers  and it also damages his health  

 

when his attack puts him rolling on the floor, move to hit his head a few times.  

whittle him down. 

 

 


Oh, and once you’ve got the death blow:

 

Spoiler

I’m so sorry. 

 

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Strategy as told through memes. The video actually taught me a lot :lol: Spoilers in case you are unaware of "that" moment.

 

Required:

- the upgraded spear. This does a metric ton of posture damage.

- confidence in your deflect skills.

 

Optional:

- fire cracker.

 

You can use sugars, but it's not mandatory. As long your deflects are on point the spear is all you need. For the Ape to do massive overhead slam which stuns him upon successful deflection you need to deflect his previous 2 swipe attacks (video time stamp 3:08). I'm not gonna say it's easy, but Ape is slow and telegraphs like crazy. Get the timing right, enjoy that satisfying CLING CLANG sound and you're golden.

 

Since you're not focussing on damage, try and bait the overhead slam and safely ignore the rest of its attacks.

 

 

An additional tip that helped me a lot as well: when you seen him grabbing behind him, immediately run towards him to avoid the attack. It worked for me 9 out of 10 times.

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2 hours ago, Stanley said:

That damn dirty bastard monkey ape keeps having me off, I think I might explore somewhere else. Any pointers? 

Spoiler

There's the Mt. Kongo/Senpou Temple area through the abandoned dungeon which is left just before the castle entrance idol (after Blazing Bull), or Ashina Depths which you get to either via the well in the reservoir you start the game in, or past the Shichimen Warrior (ghost) in the abandoned dungeon.

 

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10 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Oh God yeah I’d forgotten about him, I had a go once and got destroyed :lol:

 

The Sichimin warriors are optional but give useful items, to be honest unless you've farmed a load of divine confetti from the blue robed samurai dudes in the castle I wouldn't bother with those. I would recommend just sticking with the ape for now as you'll need to get through him, if it become that much of a blocker watch a video, there's no shame here in doing this. I really enjoyed Tyrannicon's Sekiro videos for example.

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My Ape experience was a bit odd. After many many goes without success I just decided to go mad and attack relentlessly, chasing him around the arena.

 

I found that after an onslaught of successive strikes he curled up in a ball and tried to crawl away/cover himself. It was done in such a realistic ape-like manner that I don’t honk it was a glitch at all. 
 

it happened too, albeit for only a few seconds, on a previous unsuccessful attempt when I had a sustained attack. 
 

id love it if it was something From had put in. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm making a good crack at this. Got the ape, then. found

 

Spoiler

A headless ape and it's mate. ARGH! But dealt with them both much quicker this time round. Knowledge sticks it seems.

 

Then found a weird area with ghosts which was fun to explore, then found the easiest miniboss in the game (pinwheel the return?) which was a cathartic rush, even after messing up the death blow. Then a drunk who was just so  much easier than before it really hammered home how far I've come.

 

Then a lady with a basket on her head, who fell quite quick. Then the corrupt monk showed up, and wasn't too bad either (just one lifebar). Nothing coming close to Genichiro. 

 

Great progress and great fun.

 

This is the calm before the storm isn't it?

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God I hate this game. I know if it wasn’t any other developer I’d just move along and accept that it’s not for me, but for some reason I keep coming back whenever I’m at a loss for something to play. 
 

I do have a question though, I always see people here say that you can’t play it like Dark Souls or Bloodborne. So this time I’m not blocking, as that seems pointless. It just increases my posture bar and I never get anywhere. I’m not dodging much because it’s also not really helping very much. So I’m trying to parry everything, but it still feels like shit. The enemies are tiny and I really struggle to read their movements, especially when that big red symbol appears over the top of them. Are there any other factors to playing it like Sekiro that I’m missing?
 

I know I should just let it go and sell it, I’m utterly shit at it and I have no idea what I’m doing wrong. I stuck it on for an hour and a half today and made no progress, had no fun and just ended up feeling like I wasted my time. I’m not even fighting bosses, just regular enemies. I can not comprehend how I can be so bad at it. 

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33 minutes ago, Broker said:

I always see people here say that you can’t play it like Dark Souls or Bloodborne

This isn't actually correct, a number of bosses you actually need to run around and bait their attacks and dodge (unless you are a godlike parrier and have learned every attack and timing to precision), however unlike Soulsborne where you can do that with a single button press in this it's better to sprint in and out of the enemies range to bait their attacks to then punish the few moves you can punish. But yes mostly it is just learning how best to parry and use consumables to good effect, a lot of the consumables actually have a purpose in this unlike in say souls where most of them are pointless.

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43 minutes ago, squirtle said:

What format are you playing it on? @Broker

 

PS4

 

20 minutes ago, Minion said:

This isn't actually correct, a number of bosses you actually need to run around and bait their attacks and dodge (unless you are a godlike parrier and have learned every attack and timing to precision), however unlike Soulsborne where you can do that with a single button press in this it's better to sprint in and out of the enemies range to bait their attacks to then punish the few moves you can punish. But yes mostly it is just learning how best to parry and use consumables to good effect, a lot of the consumables actually have a purpose in this unlike in say souls where most of them are pointless.

 

That's interesting, anything that can be acquired early on that's worth trying out? I'm literally in the first few areas and can't do it, I was trying to get up the road in the Hirata Estate with the spear guy at the top and I'm just getting crushed. 

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4 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

PS4

 

 

That's interesting, anything that can be acquired early on that's worth trying out? I'm literally in the first few areas and can't do it, I was trying to get up the road in the Hirata Estate with the spear guy at the top and I'm just getting crushed. 

 

Hmm ok you need to learn the mikiri counter for that guy, he is a tough roadblock probably the first to be honest, do you have mikiri counter (where you press forward and circle and you stamp on their weapon when they do a thrust attack)? Hirata is quite tough how far are you on the other path? Anyway it goes without saying like the souls games you need to get rid of the minions around him, best way to do that is to stealth in the bushes to the left and take them down one by one, if the main dude catchs on run away back the way you came, like run a lot until he properly de-aggros (his health stats and boss bar should disappear. The objective here is to be able to use the bushes on the left to get a stealth deathblow on him to take one of his bars off straight away, then it's a case of parrying or backing off until the kanji comes up the mikiri counter him, it's not easy and if you really are struggling I suggest trying to proceed in the other path of the game but you do need to get him down. the start is very tough to be fair, you're weak and have few skills. failing that watch a video or read a guide if you're really stuck as it's better to do that than give up on the game. I gave up but I came back a couple of months ago and now realise it is a From masterpiece it just needs to be played accordingly and one can't really describe how until it clicks. It's a mixture of being stealthy and super aggressive and occasionally running away!

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I was first playing it on Xbox 1X and found the frame rate a bit of a pain. I switched to PC and a steady 60fps made it a lot... Not easy... But more reliable when it came up counters and parries. 

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It's interesting because there are those who find this the hardest modern From games and those that find it the easiest. Certainly, it you nail the parry rythm and the timing of the Mikiri counter, it becomes so much easier. It really is a rythm game, in a way.

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9 hours ago, LaveDisco said:

I'm making a good crack at this. Got the ape, then. found

 

  Hide contents

A headless ape and it's mate. ARGH! But dealt with them both much quicker this time round. Knowledge sticks it seems.

 

Then found a weird area with ghosts which was fun to explore, then found the easiest miniboss in the game (pinwheel the return?) which was a cathartic rush, even after messing up the death blow. Then a drunk who was just so  much easier than before it really hammered home how far I've come.

 

Then a lady with a basket on her head, who fell quite quick. Then the corrupt monk showed up, and wasn't too bad either (just one lifebar). Nothing coming close to Genichiro. 

 

Great progress and great fun.

 

This is the calm before the storm isn't it?

Honestly, I found basket woman and monk pretty difficult on my first play, so it sounds like it has really clicked for you.

 

re: ape

Spoiler

If you visit Ashina Depths earlier you can actually bypass the second ape fight. It's good to get the battle memory though, of course.

 

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5 hours ago, Minion said:

 

Hmm ok you need to learn the mikiri counter for that guy, he is a tough roadblock probably the first to be honest, do you have mikiri counter (where you press forward and circle and you stamp on their weapon when they do a thrust attack)? Hirata is quite tough how far are you on the other path? Anyway it goes without saying like the souls games you need to get rid of the minions around him, best way to do that is to stealth in the bushes to the left and take them down one by one, if the main dude catchs on run away back the way you came, like run a lot until he properly de-aggros (his health stats and boss bar should disappear. The objective here is to be able to use the bushes on the left to get a stealth deathblow on him to take one of his bars off straight away, then it's a case of parrying or backing off until the kanji comes up the mikiri counter him, it's not easy and if you really are struggling I suggest trying to proceed in the other path of the game but you do need to get him down. the start is very tough to be fair, you're weak and have few skills. failing that watch a video or read a guide if you're really stuck as it's better to do that than give up on the game. I gave up but I came back a couple of months ago and now realise it is a From masterpiece it just needs to be played accordingly and one can't really describe how until it clicks. It's a mixture of being stealthy and super aggressive and occasionally running away!


Thanks for the tips :) I’ll buy that counter move tomorrow and give it one more go. I usually avoid games which require me to do research and stuff nowadays, if I’m enjoying a game I’ll go looking for more info on how to play better, but if it’s necessary I usually don’t bother. I think I might have to stick this one in the same category as Dark Souls 2 and accept that I just don’t enjoy it and move on though. Life is too short.

 

5 hours ago, squirtle said:

I was first playing it on Xbox 1X and found the frame rate a bit of a pain. I switched to PC and a steady 60fps made it a lot... Not easy... But more reliable when it came up counters and parries. 

 

If it was a bit cheaper I’d probably grab the Xbox version and switch to the series S but it’s still £40 and I can’t really justify spending that much on a game I already own and don’t enjoy :lol:
 

2 hours ago, Vemsie said:

It's interesting because there are those who find this the hardest modern From games and those that find it the easiest. Certainly, it you nail the parry rythm and the timing of the Mikiri counter, it becomes so much easier. It really is a rythm game, in a way.


That would make sense as I’m pretty shit at rhythm games. It feels weird because I’ve got four platinums and one is Bloodborne and two are Dark Souls, so I feel like I should enjoy it, but it’s been about 40 hours overall now across two attempts and I’m still not clicking with it at all. 

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That spear guy is a major pain, I struggled a lot on him as well. It's flung at you before you really get a sense of the flow of combat and before Mikiri counter is properly taught. Also its incredibly tedious having to stealth kill his minions each run. Once you get the counter you can practice it with the guy at your home temple if he's there yet.

 

I played a bit at the weekend and discovered a new mini boss:


 

Spoiler

 

I'm still at the invaded version of the castle and up to where Owl is, but got fatigued with the roof guys and couldn't be arsed trying Owl or the mini boss guarding the respawn shrine there more than once. So I went around the back and discovered the inner passage leading to a chained red eye guy, who I killed pretty easily. I also revisited the first memory zone to explore the river outside the burning estate, and got some more fish scales, enough to buy a new fancy combo art.

 

Then I decided to head down to the demon bell from the castle and discovered unexpectedly a new mini boss, one of the poison ninja guys. But he's damn hard and the camera and collision is a bitch in these small pagodas. The camera's always jittering around thanks to all the pillars and geometry, and the bugger can hit you through walls which is just plain broken. If you lure him into the open he's hard to see and read. I was getting close to beating him after a bunch of attempts when I realised he had an evesdrop, and that cottoned me on to the fact I might be able to stealth and get a free backstab. It actually worked! You just have to sneak around the edge of the pagoda. Unfortunately in phase 2 he powers up and wrecks, so it still took me quite a lot of goes but I eventually beat him. You have to be really aggressive and run away when your posture runs out. He is also one of the few bosses where sideways dodges really help. My reward was another prayer bead giving me enough for another health up, which will be a big help when I eventually get round to tackling the castle again.

 

I have to say the game has lost me in interest again, the current bosses are not very fun and too similar to each other, and getting to them via the bastards on the roof is a recipe in frustration. It's hard to summon up the willpower knowing you will spend at least an hour or two for each roadblock, with limited free time to game.

 

 

Re: Ape

Spoiler

When I saw you guys talking about fighting the ape again I thought you meant phase 2. But now it sounds like you fight him again in a seperate boss fight? Number 28 said you can skip it if you go to the depths earlier, I bet I have done that because after the poison lake there was this huge cave which looked very boss arena, but no boss inside. Have I skipped him then? And what did I miss? And what is the reason he can be skipped (is there a lore reason? Is it because I had the sword that kills undead so you kill the parasite first time?).

 

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Re: Ape

Spoiler

Nah, you don't kill him the first time if you have the mortal blade. I don't think there's a special lore reason for anything, but the poison pool area changes slighty (broken huts, dead enemies and blood everywhere) after the ape has passed through post the original fight, which is a nice touch. You'll still be able to go do that fight @Alan Stock just warp to the poison pool idol. All you missed was a cracking fight and the boss memory for +1 attack power. :)

 

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6 hours ago, Alan Stock said:

That spear guy is a major pain, I struggled a lot on him as well. It's flung at you before you really get a sense of the flow of combat and before Mikiri counter is properly taught. Also its incredibly tedious having to stealth kill his minions each run. Once you get the counter you can practice it with the guy at your home temple if he's there yet.


This is what I can’t work out really. I bought the counter move, practiced with that guy. I can nail it every time. There’s a guy with a spear near where the chained ogre was, I can hit the counter every time. I’ve managed it on the spear guy on the estate once in 20 attempts. He’s got another move that makes the kanji appear which I think is a sweep, so can’t be countered like that. The windups look identical to me, or at least what I can see of them that isn’t covered by a big red kanji that offers me literally no useful information about the attack. 
 

Every direction is the same, there’s the long distance through loads of identical enemies to get to a big enemy, then there’s the dull process of stealthing through that area eliminating the minions one by one, occasionally running away because there’s one who can’t be stealth killed without a guy 50 meters away immediately being alerted. Then trying to find some way to stealth the tougher enemy to remove one health bar, on the occasions where that’s possible. That’s often five minutes of dull, repetitive work to get one shot at the enemy I’m trying to learn to fight, only to be killed in two or three hits without making any meaningful progress. I play for an hour or two at a time and every single time I load up I’m in one of three places, either near Enshin Misen, Tenzen Yamauchi or Juzou the Drunk. It literally makes no difference, they all feel exactly the same, impossible fights that I don’t have the skill to even attempt. I know I could go past Tenzen, past the snake and towards the horse riding guy, but that will just be the same as well. 
 

The key thing is that I have no idea what I’m doing wrong. I practice on the guy at the temple, I feel like I can do the parries, counters etc but when I get to the actual enemies I die immediately in the exact same way every time. In a game I enjoy I like to feel like each death was something I learned from, ideally something with other options (weapons, builds etc) to try out. Here I’m learning nothing, just repeating the same failures until I get angry and turn it off. 
 

Knowing that I’m not supposed to play it like Dark Souls and Bloodborne is all well and good, but I just don’t understand how I’m supposed to play it. I’m very clearly doing it wrong, but I’m not learning or improving and I think it’s time to call it and stick it in the trading folder. It’s a shame but either I’m just not good enough to play it or the way it teaches just doesn’t work for me and I don’t feel like there’s any effort I can make with it to change those things. 

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If you're really not getting it, maybe watch a bit of a Let's Play or something to see it played well?

 

I would say I found it incredibly hard to try and time the parries at 30fps on the console version, but when I tried it at 60fps on PC it transformed the game for me. I don't know if it's had a next gen patch or anything, but it might be worth giving it another try in the future if you get the chance. Once it clicks, it's amazing.

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3 hours ago, Broker said:

I know I could go past Tenzen, past the snake and towards the horse riding guy, but that will just be the same as well. 

 

No dude, that path is easier and I would recommend getting past the snake and killing that boss as you get a bit of a power up, then go back to Hirata.

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