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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

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48 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

OK, last boss down to fuck all health and the camera went mental at close range by a rock. Killed off screen. Bit of a shame because this is an absolute beast of a fight. Amazing. It's coming, though. Got to phase four without resurrection and with five gourds left. 

 

I found the last boss easier than E+IA for the Shura ending! Its the area you fight them in - ridiculously limiting. End boss area is massive in comparison.

 

Top tip -

do not try and cheese the last boss! I know loads of vids say its the best way, but it really isnt. Takes far too long, and when you die you'll have wasted 40+ mins chipping him down. Posture bar is the best way to beat him, not his health. You can parry almost all his abilities except in the final phase, where he tries to ride the lightning - teach him that you've seen this trick before (genichiro/divine dragon - jump and R1 when you see the kanji symbol) and put the old codger into the ground.

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Cheers, @Mr Ben. That lightning attack is the one which keeps finishing me off. I get to the last phase pretty much every time now but still not figured out the timing. I did try what I thought I'd learned but does that also work for the swipe? Not managing to pull it off for now. 

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The red kanji warning is starting to feel like a jump scare. It instantly discombobulates my mind at the exact moment I most need to be focused on the fucking guy I'm trying to fight. I swear it actually obscures some of the windup.

 

Just beat GenA after many, many attempts. Enough that it'll always be relief more than triumph, but oh what sweet relief. For those fighting him, baton down the hatches.

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2 minutes ago, Orococco said:

The red kanji warning is starting to feel like a jump scare. It instantly discombobulates my mind at the exact moment I most need to be focused on the fucking guy I'm trying to fight. I swear it actually obscures some of the windup.

 

Just beat GenA after many, many attempts. Enough that it'll always be relief more than triumph, but oh what sweet relief. For those fighting him, baton down the hatches.

It might be better if the kanji appeared above the character model so it doesn't obscure those crucial wind-up frames.

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19 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

Cheers, @Mr Ben. That lightning attack is the one which keeps finishing me off. I get to the last phase pretty much every time now but still not figured out the timing. I did try what I thought I'd learned but does that also work for the swipe? Not managing to pull it off for now. 

 

You have to wait for the kanji to almost vanish before jumping and doing R1. Below is the best video guide for what to do, stage by stage, safely without using cheese at all, and its the best way to do it honestly:

The best way to avoid the jumping attack is as soon as you see him start the animation, run diagonally towards him, but out to the side so he misses and then turn around and hit him a few times. You may need to do this a few times to get the positioning and timing right, but the only thing that ever screwed me over with this was a tree right next to one of the rocks in the arena, because the camera made them seethrough :hmm:

I still maintain that the camera should not be this bad, and should probably have been slightly above your character looking diagonally down forward instead of the usual behind the player that is in every other FromSoft game. Possibly would have solved a lot of the issues that it has.

 

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Cheers. I'll have a look at that. I am doing it 'properly' after the OF fight proved to me that I need to be taking the game more on its terms if I'm going to get the rewards and this has already proven to be equally satisfying, even though I haven't done him yet! The first three phases I have a response to everything now and I'm executing probably 80%-90% of the time. I'm basically trying to make phase four like phase three because I'm starting to get a bit lazy about learning further moves. This is the hardest but fairest boss I've ever fought in a From game. Absolutely unreal. But he's still just about on top... 

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I had the same problems until I got to the last phase enough to get a good enough bead on his attacks, then it finally started to click. Both him and OF are the only bosses I've fought where you have to play without any cheap tricks to get you through, yet this one (not the OF - that fight wasnt too bad, its major issue is that room with the camera!) isnt that tough really.

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Any tips for the first CM without confetti other than grinding it out for like 10 minutes? If I get in her face she just destroys my poise way too quickly. So it’s just pixel-by-pixel chip damage, and a quick burn through firecrackers for a couple of cheap hits (feels like she needs over 100 hits to do it via damage - probably a hint there). She just hits so ridiculously hard. Had about 5 hours on her now. I’m not skilled enough to do it mistake free, so I’m through all 7 gourds before she’s halfway damaged.

 

It’s just not my game this is it?

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11 minutes ago, jonamok said:

Any tips for the first CM without confetti other than grinding it out for like 10 minutes? If I get in her face she just destroys my poise way too quickly. So it’s just pixel-by-pixel chip damage, and a quick burn through firecrackers for a couple of cheap hits (feels like she needs over 100 hits to do it via damage - probably a hint there). She just hits so ridiculously hard. Had about 5 hours on her now. I’m not skilled enough to do it mistake free, so I’m through all 7 gourds before she’s halfway damaged.

 

It’s just not my game this is it?

I dont think I did him without confetti ever. Best way to do him without though is the hit and run tactic with

 

Mortal Draw once you get the Mortal Blade, as you can just use it without emblems, it just has a lower range and does slightly less damage. Later you'll be able to just buy confetti from the vendor, so I wouldnt worry about not using it, if you have any.

 

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There's a pretty despicable cheese for it involving snap seeds and ash that just doesn't make any sense to me, look it up if you're desperate I guess.

 

I pretty much just ground that fight out, as I recall. It's one of those ones that feels progressively less impossible until it happens. 

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20 minutes ago, jonamok said:

Any tips for the first CM without confetti other than grinding it out for like 10 minutes? If I get in her face she just destroys my poise way too quickly. So it’s just pixel-by-pixel chip damage, and a quick burn through firecrackers for a couple of cheap hits (feels like she needs over 100 hits to do it via damage - probably a hint there). She just hits so ridiculously hard. Had about 5 hours on her now. I’m not skilled enough to do it mistake free, so I’m through all 7 gourds before she’s halfway damaged.

 

It’s just not my game this is it?

 

Hang about.... CM? Your further than me now ! :D

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CM1 I found difficult to damage until I used a couple of snap seeds. 

 

And now I've just returned to this after about a week and did CM2. Yeah, I used the cheap method to get through some of it quickly. I don't care. I'll take any victory at this point.

 

Thinking about it, it would actually be a great addition to this game if you could get instant deathblows on bosses up to whatever phase you've reached before. If you've got to the 2nd phase once, you can deathblow the 1st phase. Or not. Your choice. That would solve nearly all the game's problems for me.

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I tried Snap Seeds but it only seemed to stun him a few times before he became immune, so I just did him the way I did the first time, minus

Mortal Draw

. Took a little longer, but knowing I could parry if in trouble, while using Confetti was easy enough.

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Fellow strugglers, I finally did the last boss!

 

I started to bottle it in the last phase and got a bit defensive but after I got his dangerous attack back at him once, I felt more confident to just go for it. Nearly fucked it, nevertheless, but pressed on, got him very close and then one more taste of his own medicine did for him. Absolutely amazing fight. It's up there with the greatest, with O&S, Tower Knight, Gwyn, Gascoigne et al. Recency bias and all but I don't think I've ever truly learned any Soulsborne bosses inside out like I did the last two in this game. 

 

Remarkable how the whole thing has clicked for me today, with these bosses. It honestly makes me feel very differently about the game and my approach. Even when I thought I was deflecting well and so on and I thought I was pretty offensive, I really wasn't taking the fight to most enemies besides the mobs. I cheesed pretty much everything or dragged fights out with chip damage, punishing the one move I learned to counter, that kind of thing. That's not possible with these two. You just have to learn the moveset and learn to punish everything, as best you can. I genuinely can't wait for NG+ now. What a game.

 

Here's my fight, for those interested. Unrelated thumbnail so as not to spoil anything. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Goemon said:

 

I don’t think you can do the return ending. Afaik you need to

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 


Used the hearts before fighting the Corrupted Monk
 

 

 

 

I found out last night that you still can!

 

Spoiler

So long as you have both serpent viscera before the end game...

 

Echo @Stanshall's thoughts about a certain optional end game shinobi boss, an absolutely brilliant fight.

 

Just sitting on the sofa right now with my heart in my mouth. Started it as a throwaway just-one-more-go thing, not really expecting much, and everything just bloody clicked. Just like DoH, I didn't need to res, just responded naturally and reflexively to the shit he was throwing my way.

 

Haven't had a gaming experience like that in a long, long time. From know what they're goddamn doing.

 

God, need a stiff drink...

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For the latest update for fans of dogshit-tier Sekiro players read on:

 

Another 25 attempts at Genichiro over the last few hours.

 

I can get him to Tomoe every fourth or fifth go, though nowhere near consistently in how I do it. 

 

But I’m that fucked by the time I get there (character and player), and it’s been that long, and it’s such a short visit to Thunder Mountain, that I’m not learning anything. He kills me pretty quickly every single time. I know the principle is it’s more of the same, but he’s just kanji after kanji, and the couple of times I spawned a catch and return of the lightning, I still couldn’t build up his posture quick enough before he fucks me with either: sword attack, quick bowshots, one of multiple hard-to-read kanjis, lightning bolt, or lightning slash. And I’ve no idea what’s coming.

 

I know most of you have done this in waaaay less attempts. It’s going to (literally, I fear) be the fucking death of me.

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4 hours ago, Goemon said:

 

I don’t think you can do the return ending. Afaik you need to

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 


Used the hearts before fighting the Corrupted Monk
 

 

 

 

Can confirm you can have killed that boss and still do it.

 

Granted, I’d still done all the other pre-requisites anyway

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47 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

Fellow strugglers, I finally did the last boss!

 

I started to bottle it in the last phase and got a bit defensive but after I got his dangerous attack back at him once, I felt more confident to just go for it. Nearly fucked it, nevertheless, but pressed on, got him very close and then one more taste of his own medicine did for him. Absolutely amazing fight. It's up there with the greatest, with O&S, Tower Knight, Gwyn, Gascoigne et al. Recency bias and all but I don't think I've ever truly learned any Soulsborne bosses inside out like I did the last two in this game. 

 

Remarkable how the whole thing has clicked for me today, with these bosses. It honestly makes me feel very differently about the game and my approach. Even when I thought I was deflecting well and so on and I thought I was pretty offensive, I really wasn't taking the fight to most enemies besides the mobs. I cheesed pretty much everything or dragged fights out with chip damage, punishing the one move I learned to counter, that kind of thing. That's not possible with these two. You just have to learn the moveset and learn to punish everything, as best you can. I genuinely can't wait for NG+ now. What a game.

 

Here's my fight, for those interested. Unrelated thumbnail so as not to spoil anything. 

 

 

 

 

Good work!

 

Lack of aggression may be a possible hang up from Souls.

 

I watched that vid from the other thread with the German guys playing and they would literally stand and just wait for the AI to do something.

 

In souls being aggressive is dangerous as anything large can just posture damage straight through and hit you. This isn’t really the case with this game. It’s totally plausible for you to safely initiate offence and it’s possible to parry and instantly go on the attack too.

 

The combat of this game is mainly a back and forth of attacks, blocks and parries, not dodge em up.

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3 minutes ago, jonamok said:

I can get him to Tomoe every fourth or fifth go, though nowhere near consistently in how I do it. 

 

But I’m that fucked by the time I get there (character and player), and it’s been that long, and it’s such a short visit to Thunder Mountain, that I’m not learning anything.

This is what winds me up about these multiphase things. It's difficult to work out a strategy when you don't even get there a lot of the time. I'd recommend using a guide at this stage so at least you know what to do next time you get there.

 

I pretty much fluked that last phase after a while. Managed to jump away from the lightning and counter his kanji attacks almost by accident. One thing that did help though is getting in a Mikiri counter on that big lunge attack he always starts with and uses quite often when you're at a distance. It's quite an easy one to pull off consistently.

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Which now begs the question. If I’m set up for both the purification ending and the return ending, can you sort of do both?

 

Spoiler

To get purification I have to go and kill owl dad again. If I do that, will it cancel my ability to do the return ending - I have the frozen tears now.

 

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1 hour ago, Stanshall said:

Fellow strugglers, I finally did the last boss!

 

I started to bottle it in the last phase and got a bit defensive but after I got his dangerous attack back at him once, I felt more confident to just go for it. Nearly fucked it, nevertheless, but pressed on, got him very close and then one more taste of his own medicine did for him. Absolutely amazing fight. It's up there with the greatest, with O&S, Tower Knight, Gwyn, Gascoigne et al. Recency bias and all but I don't think I've ever truly learned any Soulsborne bosses inside out like I did the last two in this game. 

 

Remarkable how the whole thing has clicked for me today, with these bosses. It honestly makes me feel very differently about the game and my approach. Even when I thought I was deflecting well and so on and I thought I was pretty offensive, I really wasn't taking the fight to most enemies besides the mobs. I cheesed pretty much everything or dragged fights out with chip damage, punishing the one move I learned to counter, that kind of thing. That's not possible with these two. You just have to learn the moveset and learn to punish everything, as best you can. I genuinely can't wait for NG+ now. What a game.

 

Here's my fight, for those interested. Unrelated thumbnail so as not to spoil anything. 

 

 

 

Love the bit about halfway through where he jumps over you and the camera does its thing and you're left thinking "wtf? where'd he go?" :lol:

 

You seem to have a habit of holding the lightning a bit too long in the air, so you land and take damage, allowing the boss to shoot you. Just immediately use R1 in the air, no need to hold it, as the boss cant block it or anything. Not really a criticism, more a tip for any boss with that mechanic (some normal enemies have the attack on a 2nd playthrough, so be wary).

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OK, cheers. I'll keep an eye out for that. To be honest, I can't really see what's going on with that attack because I'm just concentrating on the kanji to help with the jump timing. I struggled with the same attack with the other fella so I'm glad I managed to get a couple in despite not really having it down. You can tell that's the attack I'm least comfortable with! :D

 

I wish I could fight him again already! Such a satisfying challenge.

 

Edit: I see what you mean watching it back and looking at the animation. Twice I screwed up by not just sending it right back after I caught it.

 

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Last boss down!

 

Phew, glad to see the game back on form after DoH. And great to see another final boss in the vein of Gehrman, Gwyn, Soul of Cinder, etc. Actually, with the spear coming out, it was very soul-of-cindery, which I'm all good with.



 

That spear form was tough; one tricky thing was having to unlearn the 'attack until they deflect' crutch I'd been using, because he'll just power through your attacks and lamp you. The sheer speed of his perilous attacks in the first phase was a bit much, but that eases off in phase 2 and 3. Felt like I was spamming deflect a bit, but I was elated to finish his third health bar off with a mikiro counter. YES.

 

 

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There is way to make the CM fight a lot easier by using the 

 

Spoiler

phantom kunai + ceremonial tanto (15 extra emblems)

 

to bring her down to 50 % of her Vitality + a glowing orange Posture bar before the fight even begins

 

after that all you need to do is get her from 50 % to 25 % Vit (deflects + Mortal Draw ftw) where her posture starts to break, a lot easier than doing the same from 100 % to 25 % which was basically the problem with this fight since she blocks everything (?) you throw at her from the front

 

phantom kunai and mortal draw both ignore blocks (and the mortal draw works even if you have no emblems just a weaker version of it)

 

and you can prepare extra emblems before you enter the fight and get your health back on the first tanto cut by deathblowing some of the peasants outside the house there

 

Before this I found the encounter to be quite tough, and worked on it for hours until I saw this suggested on the wiki

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2 minutes ago, jonamok said:

Can I get any of those things if I can’t beat Genichiro either?

Spoiler

 

I cant remember if you have access to all of the materials for the phantom kunai before youve done Genichiro ..

 

But you can get the tanto from the first Shichimen Warrior in the Abandoned Dungeon now

 

 

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Red Kanji is going to be the death of me. Whenever I see it I automatically smash Miriki counter regardless of move, which of course works only about 1 in ten times. 

 

Cannot. Train. Myself. Out. Of. It. It's doubly frustrating because the red text might as well say 'You're a twat' as I eat 70-80% of my health fucking off. Aaaaaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhh

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I’m done, admitting defeat.

Three hours on CM not having fun. Love the bits I’ve played but can’t put the time in and I know it’s going to get worse. 

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3 hours ago, Goemon said:

 

Good work!

 

Lack of aggression may be a possible hang up from Souls.

 

I watched that vid from the other thread with the German guys playing and they would literally stand and just wait for the AI to do something.

 

In souls being aggressive is dangerous as anything large can just posture damage straight through and hit you. This isn’t really the case with this game. It’s totally plausible for you to safely initiate offence and it’s possible to parry and instantly go on the attack too.

 

The combat of this game is mainly a back and forth of attacks, blocks and parries, not dodge em up.

 

You have to know the patterns pretty well to be aggressive though, if you deflect and attempt to attack on a multiple attack you'll at best trade. And trading is a bad idea in this game. 

 

Those Germans battered themselves against that wall for three hours. There has to be something missing from the game that it hasn't taught you to play by that point. I think they probably should have taken the dodge out altogether or put it on the skill tree. It feels like Bloodborne's, and it really isn't. 

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