The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

[Mikes]

I was watching a 40k lore youtube video the other day (don't judge me) with the presenter going on about what he'd like to see in the Henry Cavill show and one was "forced representation, like what ruined RoP".

 

Now, the guy's an idiot, but this was particularly stupid, because while RoP has its faults, non-white characters are precisely zero of them. I was struck by the difference in storytelling between the introduced stories (such as the Harfoots and the Southlands) and the storylines outlined in the Silmarillion et al. 

 

I'm keen as hell for season 2, if only because I have $10 to collect off a colleague when I'm proven right about Meteor man.

[scottcr]

43 minutes ago, Mikes said:

I was watching a 40k lore youtube video the other day (don't judge me) with the presenter going on about what he'd like to see in the Henry Cavill show and one was "forced representation, like what ruined RoP".

 

Now, the guy's an idiot, but this was particularly stupid, because while RoP has its faults, non-white characters are precisely zero of them. I was struck by the difference in storytelling between the introduced stories (such as the Harfoots and the Southlands) and the storylines outlined in the Silmarillion et al. 

 

I'm keen as hell for season 2, if only because I have $10 to collect off a colleague when I'm proven right about Meteor man.

 

what's your theory on Gandalf(?)...?

[Mikes]

To begin with, he's not Gandalf.

[Benny]

1 hour ago, Mikes said:

To begin with, he's not Gandalf.

 

Spoiler

Gandolf.

 

[Thor]

1 hour ago, Mikes said:

To begin with, he's not Gandalf.

He's absolutely Gandalf. 

[Sidewaysbob]

1 hour ago, Mikes said:

To begin with, he's not Gandalf.

 

Hmm. likes butterflies, goes on quests because it smells' right. Has a thing about small people. .. 

 

I think that's Gandalf 

[Chindie]

 

A long review of the series but I agree with most of it and captures a lot of the criticism (and praise) the series deserves well. Its a middling mess of a series, with a few very good, a few very bad, and of rough parts. The bad stuff tends to be born of it trying to create plotlines and forging the characters to fit, the good stuff tends to be where they take the framework of characters from the books and extrapolate that into small character scenes.

[iknowgungfu]

5 hours ago, Sidewaysbob said:

 

Hmm. likes butterflies, goes on quests because it smells' right. Has a thing about small people. .. 

 

I think that's Gandalf 

Was Gandalf around at this point in middle earth history?
 

The smells right thing might just be Wizard common convention?

[iknowgungfu]

Although I wonder if meteor man is 

 

Spoiler

Saruman as some foreshadowing of how he could be tempted to evil eventually. Would love it to be Radagast the Brown though.  He was the only thing I enjoyed in the Hobbit films  

 

[Mikes]

6 hours ago, Thor said:

He's absolutely Gandalf. 

 

Why he's not Gandalf ( @iknowgungfu, answers to you questions included):

 

(Oh, and lore spoilers)

 

Spoiler

Gandalf wasn't in middle earth in the second. He, Saruman and Radagast don't arrive until the third, and it's explicitly stated they arrived by ship in the Grey Havens and at least in Gandalf and Saruman's cases were greeted by Cirdan. 

 

Some people have said that Tlkien wrote in one letter later on that he thgouht maybe Gandalf did visit ME in the third age, but this was just a letter exploring the idea and wasn't explcictly stated as something that happened, and Amazon's contract doesn't not allow them to produce anything that condradicts the published books, which don't include that idea.

 

Who he could be is one of the Blue Wizards. They arrived in ME around the time of the show, it was not stated how they arrived, nor if they arrived together, so landing alone and butt naked in a field fits with the Silmarillion. I think the "follow your nose" line is a red herring, and perhaps will later turn out to be an indication thta the wizards, or at least the Istar in their Maiar form, share many quirks.

 

[Thor]

25 minutes ago, Mikes said:

Spoiler

Gandalf wasn't in middle earth in the second. He, Saruman and Radagast don't arrive until the third, and it's explicitly stated they arrived by ship in the Grey Havens and at least in Gandalf and Saruman's cases were greeted by Cirdan. 

 

Explicitly stated ... where? In what book?

[Festoon]

3 hours ago, Mikes said:

 

Why he's not Gandalf ( @iknowgungfu, answers to you questions included):

 

(Oh, and lore spoilers)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Gandalf wasn't in middle earth in the second. He, Saruman and Radagast don't arrive until the third, and it's explicitly stated they arrived by ship in the Grey Havens and at least in Gandalf and Saruman's cases were greeted by Cirdan. 

 

Some people have said that Tlkien wrote in one letter later on that he thgouht maybe Gandalf did visit ME in the third age, but this was just a letter exploring the idea and wasn't explcictly stated as something that happened, and Amazon's contract doesn't not allow them to produce anything that condradicts the published books, which don't include that idea.

 

Who he could be is one of the Blue Wizards. They arrived in ME around the time of the show, it was not stated how they arrived, nor if they arrived together, so landing alone and butt naked in a field fits with the Silmarillion. I think the "follow your nose" line is a red herring, and perhaps will later turn out to be an indication thta the wizards, or at least the Istar in their Maiar form, share many quirks.

 

 

The former, I'll bet.

[Chindie]

I want the Stranger to be (spoilers for the series and speculation)

 

Spoiler

a Blue Wizard, and not Gandalf.

 

But they've basically slathered 'it's Gandalf' all over the character, and it strikes me, rather like them putting notHobbits in it, that they'd shove Gandalf in to make it more Lord of the Rings-y. The nods to Gandalf, either explicit or implied, are numerous - he arrives in fire, Gandalf is associated with fire throughout the books (he even wears the ring of power associated with fire); he influences/controls/speaks with insects, as he famously does with the moth in LotR; he has the obvious connection with the notHobbits, which becomes one of his defining relationships; he mentions following your nose, a line he explicitly uses in LotR; his outfit and look is very Gandalf, his apparent mission aligns with Gandalf's...

 

It shouldn't be Gandalf, and it's a bad choice for it to be Gandalf, but that would be my bet. Unless all the above is misdirection. In which case making it Saruman is probably more interesting but still a bit of a shit choice. The best choice is a Blue Wizard, because with that they can do basically anything they want and not be beholden to more or less any story, and it actually ties in nicely with the setup they've established already with the development of Mordor and the Eastern lands. But that probably won't make for a big reveal moment when in the finale of series 2 he goes 'Yes, Pallando, that's my name', while the audience goes 'who?', versus 'ah yes, Gandalf is what you should call me' and the audience claps knowingly.

 

[Stig]

The show runners have already said they're playing around with timelines because events and characters are spread over thousands of years and they've had to condense these down to a more manageable time frame. Otherwise they'd replacing non long living characters too much.

 

So, it's absolutely is Gandalf.

[DarhkFox]

28 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

The show runners have already said they're playing around with timelines because events and characters are spread over thousands of years and they've had to condense these down to a more manageable time frame. Otherwise they'd replacing non long living characters too much.

 

So, it's absolutely is Gandalf.

 

Will be pretty dissapointed if that is the case. I mean, it's kind of being set up like that but it's completly the wrong time period for Gandalf.

 

If anyone have no interest in LOTR beyond the movies they may not care so much.

[Chindie]

My bet is (character speculation)

Spoiler

It is a Gandalf. Not the Grey, but who he was before the Grey.

 

It gives them a cake and eat it option together with the callback/call forwards thing that plagues prequels. They get to do an origin story for Gandalf that doesn't pointedly contradict the canon as written, they can then do whatever they want with impunity, and they can kill him off ala the bridge in Khazad Dum at some point for a big moment and not worry, he will come back as the canon Gandalf the Grey in the Third Age that this series doesn't care about.

 

Which would be rubbish, but it ticks the boxes.

 

[Wiper]

On 21/01/2023 at 19:09, iknowgungfu said:

I can’t see a reason my the word “menu”wouldn’t be in use around Middle Earth. 

 

Presumably because it's a relatively "modern" concept — the earliest menus IRL are from around 1000 AD, and didn't exist in the West specifically until around the 18th century (and in both cases were exclusively concepts limited to extremely wealthy people's banquets). So I guess it feels anachronistic? Certainly there's a question of how many banquets the average orc gets to attend to become familiar with the concept.

 

Of course, given that the series is established as a prehistoric* setting which mixes broadly ancient/classical weaponry with late medieval technology like gunpowder explosives (plus, you know, dragons and shit), complaints about anachronisms would seem a little misplaced, generally.

 

*well, it positions the history as being lost, rather than actually being prehistoric in the proper sense of the word, but you get the idea.

[Masterbeef]

Although I thought this was extremely poor in places and terribly paced as a whole I think it just about works. I think a rewatch will be in order in a few months time as I found it incredibly difficult to follow at times. 
 

Far from the tv masterpiece I was hoping for, but I think it will improve with rewatches. 

[JohnC]

3 new cast, but no character details. Ciarán Hinds, Rory Kinnear and Tanya Moodie.

[Hanzo the Razor]

On 24/01/2023 at 13:22, Chindie said:

My bet is (character speculation)

  Hide contents

It is a Gandalf. Not the Grey, but who he was before the Grey.

 

It gives them a cake and eat it option together with the callback/call forwards thing that plagues prequels. They get to do an origin story for Gandalf that doesn't pointedly contradict the canon as written, they can then do whatever they want with impunity, and they can kill him off ala the bridge in Khazad Dum at some point for a big moment and not worry, he will come back as the canon Gandalf the Grey in the Third Age that this series doesn't care about.

 

Which would be rubbish, but it ticks the boxes.

 

 

Gandalf the Beige? That would fit in well with this dreary mess of a show.