The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

[Chindie]

22 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

I think the internet has lost it's mind.

 

 

Incidentally, Galadriel is Elrond's aunt, right?

 

She's Elronds distant cousin iirc. And also becomes his mother-in-law.

[Benny]

2 hours ago, Sabreman said:

The main problem really is that everyone and everything has half a dozen names.

 

Hark at Sabreman here. The Wulf Touched. Underwurlde's Bane. Student of Melkhior. Pentagram Master.

[Mikes]

9 hours ago, Chindie said:

The problem with this is

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Gandalf the Grey is resurrected to become Gandalf the White, and that resurrection is basically unprecedented in the canon. It's suggested the Creator actually directly intervened to allow Gandalf to come back, which is a huge deal within the lore. If it's written as having happened before, it turns Gandalf into Kenny from South Park, the hero with a thousand lives who is too important to die.

 

 

Spoiler

It happened one other time before with Glorfindel, after he died defeating Gothmog, lord of the Balrogs, in the sacking of Gondolin.

 

Basically Iluvatar saw what Glorf was capable of and thought "yeah, nah, more of that" and reincarnated him. IIRC though he respawned in Valinor and had to make his way back to Middle Earth in the most epic of corpse runs.

 

[metallicfrodo]

19 hours ago, Mikes said:

 

Not without making stuff up. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It was explicit in thebSilmarillion as to why and when the Istari, being Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast, arrived. And there was no yeeting involved.

 

It could be Gandalf, but that would be a huge step away from the source material. 

 

I'm leaning more towards him being something else entirely, given the effect he had on Lindon's leaves and killing the fireflies. It strikes me as something Not Good.

 

The issue here though is that The Silmarillion isn’t the source material, they don’t have the rights to it. The source material is The Lord of the Rings and it’s appendices. I do wonder what they are allowed to do with regards to elements that are spelt out  in The Silmarillion but not in the material they can draw from. Would it actually be a breach of copyright? Obviously this doesn’t mean they have to deliberately go against what is specified in Tolkein’s other works though.

[Chindie]

11 minutes ago, metallicfrodo said:

The issue here though is that The Silmarillion isn’t the source material, they don’t have the rights to it. The source material is The Lord of the Rings and it’s appendices. I do wonder what they are allowed to do with regards to elements that are spelt out  in The Silmarillion but not in the material they can draw from. Would it actually be a breach of copyright? Obviously this doesn’t mean they have to deliberately go against what is specified in Tolkein’s other works though.

 

They supposedly cannot openly contradict the existing works they do not have access to.

[metallicfrodo]

2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

 

They supposedly cannot openly contradict the existing works they do not have access to.

That makes sense.

 

But then that seems to suggest that this character can’t be who people are suggesting.

 

Although even Tolkien contradicts himself, as, from what I have read, in Unfinished tales he writes that all five Istari arrive in TA 1000, whereas in The Peoples of Middle Earth he says the two blue wizards arrived first in SA1600.

[Chindie]

4 minutes ago, metallicfrodo said:

That makes sense.

 

But then that seems to suggest that this character can’t be who people are suggesting.

 

Although even Tolkien contradicts himself, as, from what I have read, in Unfinished tales he writes that all five Istari arrive in TA 1000, whereas in The Peoples of Middle Earth he says the two blue wizards arrived first in SA1600.

 

I suspect they have some flexibility in what 'contradict' means, so they can probably get away with things that are in the main inconsequential or do not massively alter the established canon. So they could do stuff like messing with the early days of who we suspect this character is, changing the details of exactly what particular characters are doing at certain times, but they can't, for instance, have Elrond die or Sauron be the hero.

 

Essentially I think there's a framework they must abide to, but they can mess with exactly what they build within that framework to a degree. That basically has to be the case with this because the material they have to work with here simply isn't enough to create a TV series out of without making new shit up, which immediately means they need some flexibility in what they can do.

 

Saying that I do think some of the stuff they're doing with this show is less about building a narrative within the framework from limited resources, and more 'making it LotR-y'. The not-Hobbits should not be a thing in this time period. The point of the Hobbits in the Third Age was basically that they are irrelevant little people who are ignored by, and wish to be ignored by, the wider world, which makes their being pivotal in saving it all the more remarkable. Having their ancestors truly involved in basically anything in the Second Age is daft.

[SpagMasterSwift]

20 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Saying that I do think some of the stuff they're doing with this show is less about building a narrative within the framework from limited resources, and more 'making it LotR-y'. The not-Hobbits should not be a thing in this time period. The point of the Hobbits in the Third Age was basically that they are irrelevant little people who are ignored by, and wish to be ignored by, the wider world, which makes their being pivotal in saving it all the more remarkable. Having their ancestors truly involved in basically anything in the Second Age is daft.

It's like you are in my brain!

[scottcr]

The online 'discourse' around this programme is fucking depressing... incel shut ins spouting out about tolkein purity, racists getting annoyed at 'woke' characterisation... 

 

Shut the internet. 

[Festoon]

1 hour ago, scottcr said:

The online 'discourse' around this programme is fucking depressing... incel shut ins spouting out about tolkein purity, racists getting annoyed at 'woke' characterisation... 

 

Shut the internet. 

 

Funniest thing is you know those cunts are watching the episodes as soon as they upload.

[scottcr]

Tin foil hat on for a moment - wouldn't surprise me if a lot of it is Elon stans... 

 

 

[Festoon]

9 minutes ago, scottcr said:

Tin foil hat on for a moment - wouldn't surprise me if a lot of it is Elon stans... 

 

 

 

Fellow travellers.

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, scottcr said:

The online 'discourse' around this programme is fucking depressing... incel shut ins spouting out about tolkein purity, racists getting annoyed at 'woke' characterisation... 

 

Shut the internet. 

 

It's all horrible nonsense and I do wish these racist idiots would shut up and stop being so imbedded in a stupid culture war. 

 

Something that occurred to me the other day. I was rewatching the Matrix trilogy and had never noticed before that there's a bit of a juxtaposition between the inhabitants of the real world specifally Zion vs. in the actual Matrix. 

The people of Zion are mainly comprised of people of colour and very diverse, where as you have the white authoritarian agents in the matrix. It's maybe a deliberate thing that back then, I absolutely didn't pick up on it. 

 

I just thought, that if this film had come out now it would get the same response from these idiots. 

[Mikes]

3 hours ago, metallicfrodo said:

Although even Tolkien contradicts himself, as, from what I have read, in Unfinished tales he writes that all five Istari arrive in TA 1000, whereas in The Peoples of Middle Earth he says the two blue wizards arrived first in SA1600.

 

It's not really a contradiction, rather an evolving of the story. He was still working on the Silmarillion when he died, and the revision of the two blue wizards arriving in the second rather than the third age are from notes he never intended to publish in that form. It leaves wriggle room if they want to make meteorman one of them. My money is still on it being something introduced into the story from outside known cast of characters.

[Mikes]

2 hours ago, scottcr said:

The online 'discourse' around this programme is fucking depressing... incel shut ins spouting out about tolkein purity, racists getting annoyed at 'woke' characterisation... 

 

Shut the internet. 

 

I've taken a big step back from social media recently, for mental health reasons and just because Twitter REALLY wants me to care about Harry Styles, so the only time I've really come across them is Neil Gaiman slapping them down in replies, which is pleasing.

 

Also, the season final of Game of Thrones got 19 million viewers. The first ep of RoP got 25 million. I think it's fair to say their views are - ironically - in the minority.

 

[Chindie]

The cottage industry of useful idiots stoking shit about this series has been one of the most depressing things on the net recently. It's been going for literally months, video after video decrying this as some woke nonsense because it's got a diverse cast, claiming that Tolkein's description of the appearance of people is actually important for 'reasons'. There's certainly reasons why the Lord of the Rings is the racist fantasy series of choice...

 

This whole thing with the pop culture culture war stuff on YouTube is fucking grim. I mentioned the other day I'd been linked to some dreadful video about the MCU, why Phase 4 is bad. Of course it's full of the usual 'it's woke propaganda!' shit, an awful lot of the details noted actually being straight up wrong. But even setting that all aside, it's fucking grim to see the nasty vicious cycle of YouTube and the algorithm incentivising useful idiots into pumping out right wing propaganda using the popularity of various franchises to push those narratives and normalise them, and round and round it goes.

[Festoon]

10 minutes ago, Chindie said:

The cottage industry of useful idiots stoking shit about this series has been one of the most depressing things on the net recently. It's been going for literally months, video after video decrying this as some woke nonsense because it's got a diverse cast, claiming that Tolkein's description of the appearance of people is actually important for 'reasons'. There's certainly reasons why the Lord of the Rings is the racist fantasy series of choice...

 

This whole thing with the pop culture culture war stuff on YouTube is fucking grim. I mentioned the other day I'd been linked to some dreadful video about the MCU, why Phase 4 is bad. Of course it's full of the usual 'it's woke propaganda!' shit, an awful lot of the details noted actually being straight up wrong. But even setting that all aside, it's fucking grim to see the nasty vicious cycle of YouTube and the algorithm incentivising useful idiots into pumping out right wing propaganda using the popularity of various franchises to push those narratives and normalise them, and round and round it goes.

 

Absolutely 100% agree man.

 

One of the worst thing is the people tackling this stuff don't seem to realise it's not agreement that matters to the social media companies, but engagement. I really think people don't realise that responding to this stuff in any way is booting it. People think that thumbing down those vids is bad,  but can't understand why they keep getting recommended them.

 

Anger and division fuel social media algorithms - it's like Laura Kussenberg's show on speed.

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Yet every single thread in this sub- forum seems to descend into people talking about what all these non-rllmuk members social media accounts  think about films & TV shows. It’s so fucking tiresome reading the same complaints about the same YouTube & Twitter accounts in virtually every thread over & over & over again. 
 

Unless these people are forum members why should anyone in here give a shit what they think? Some of the threads here are completely unreadable at the minute as they are just people talking about what ProudMan467743465788 on Twitter thinks about a casting choice, as if they are some arbiter of taste.
 

The conversation about what these non-members accounts think have absolutely nothing to do with the topics at hand. I am totally bewildered at what the point is in constantly wasting conversation space on it. We can all pat ourselves on the back & talk about how we’re better than some internet random with a webcam, but I think this would be a much better place if we ignored it completely. 

[Sabreman]

7 hours ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

Yet every single thread in this sub- forum seems to descend into people talking about what all these non-rllmuk members social media accounts  think about films & TV shows. It’s so fucking tiresome reading the same complaints about the same YouTube & Twitter accounts in virtually every thread over & over & over again. 
 

Unless these people are forum members why should anyone in here give a shit what they think? Some of the threads here are completely unreadable at the minute as they are just people talking about what ProudMan467743465788 on Twitter thinks about a casting choice, as if they are some arbiter of taste.
 

The conversation about what these non-members accounts think have absolutely nothing to do with the topics at hand. I am totally bewildered at what the point is in constantly wasting conversation space on it. We can all pat ourselves on the back & talk about how we’re better than some internet random with a webcam, but I think this would be a much better place if we ignored it completely. 

 Holy shit. Amen. I was having this very conversation with a friend recently, off the back of the predictable response to She-Hulk starting. I'm not on any social media at all, and this forum is basically the only place on the internet I communicate with more than one other person, but by osmosis I'm constantly (but mercifully vaguely) aware of the shitstorms spinning around... well... everything these days. I'd decided to back off even following topics in here because I'm just so, so sick of it all when all I want to do is talk about the content of the show or film. But rllmuk is a drug prescribed for indolent days off and I popped into this thread the other day, only to learn that Lenny Henry is getting shit online for being a black hobbit. I felt like throttling someone.

[Benny]

This is precisely why I have absolutely no interest in reading or sharing all the culture war articles or Twitter arguments that form around this stuff and prefer to focus only on discussing the works themselves, as all bringing that shit in does is signal boost it, and at this point all that nonsense is not even shocking anymore and it's just so bloody boring that it's still going on and is just the same thing over and over again and goes nowhere.

[Harsin]

I post far less in Film & TV than I used to as it seems like every thread is the same people scouring YouTube and Twitter to be the first ones to post tweets and videos with thumbnails of a bearded man looking outraged to go LOOK AT THIS. I never watch the videos as why on Earth would I want to watch 45 minutes of what Nazis think and have the algorithm decide I really want to know xXx~WhiteGOKU~xXx's views about black elves and fill up my YouTube front screen with them. I already know what they'll think and that I'll vehemently disagree with it. I get the impression some are more excited about those coming out than the show itself. It's almost impossible to just discuss media on its own merits anymore amongst the sheer amount of culture war noise in almost every thread. Depressingly, I know that we live in a time Incel Chuds are going to hate anything that has a woman or a person who isn't lilly white in a prominent role. I'm not a fan of megathreads, but we could almost do with one to discuss how the alt-right hate almost everything. As Benny said these posts just act as signal boosting the venom, even though it’s not their intention.

[scottcr]

what's the new episode like?

[Boothjan]

Just binge watched all 3 episodes.  Holy fuck, how have they made it look THIS good?  Probably with a shit load of cash but I digress:

 

Episode 3:

 

Spoiler

Numenor is ridiculous.  I can't remember an unveiling as visually stunning as that since.... Erm.... Probably Khazad-Dum in the previous episode.

 

Overall, I think this is tremendous.  I've always preferred the LOTR films to the books, but I never read anything other than the main 4 books.  So this stage of Middle Earth is totally new to me.  So any inaccuracies in the source material is irrelevant to me.  Plot wise, I've no problems at all - it's getting more interesting with each episode.

 

Really enjoying it.

[Pete]

I thought the third episode was much better, great to see a certain location and now I can piece together where this story sits in the wider context. I think they've made a great choice in that regard and I am more excited now. Still find the harfoot stuff a slog mind.

[cassidy]

Bloody hell.  Enjoyed that again. 

 

Visuals are staggering. Morfydd is smashing it. 

[Thor]

Yeah, that was fantastic. I just love being in this world. 

[Sabreman]

Gosh. When they panned up over 

Spoiler

Númenor

 I had a little wave of excitement. Loved everything about those scenes, and I do like the way there's some consistency in design between this and Jackson's films. I want to feel all of these adaptations could form part of a larger whole. One that I could potentially binge over the course of a week at some point in the future 😁

 

I'm with Pete on the Harfoot scenes though. The Hobbits were always ironically the least interesting part of LotR for me. Plus, the 'stranger from the stars' looks so much like Bob Odenkirk it's a huge distraction for me.

[Scruff]

43 minutes ago, cassidy said:

Bloody hell.  Enjoyed that again. 

 

Visuals are staggering. Morfydd is smashing it. 

 

Except when she was on the horse in slow mo, then it looked like a Chris Cunningham Aphex Twin video.

[cassidy]

Quite liked that tbh it looked very nice in 4K.  

[Wizcat]

So so glad I refound this book in my shed earlier in Summer. Thought I'd lost it forever, and it was an invaluable companion when I first read through the books in my distant youth.

 

It's proving invaluable once again. Highly recommended if you're a Tolkien fan. It was out of print for decades, but it looks like there's a hardback version just been released (probably to coincide with the TV series)