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Spelunky 2 - sequel to the actual best game ever


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5 hours ago, BadgerFarmer said:

I've been to 4-1 twice so far. Different ones each time. And died quickly of course.

 

Last session I couldn't even get through level 2 again and started to get worn down by it. So many instant death situations where I feel like I've barely done anything wrong.

 

I had a run where I got four moles, two lizards and a caveman on the same screen in 1-1. You do get the odd run where the RNG screws you over and there's little you can realistically do about it. But cor, what a feeling when you open a shortcut. 

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8 hours ago, Rudderless said:

 

I had a run where I got four moles, two lizards and a caveman on the same screen in 1-1. You do get the odd run where the RNG screws you over and there's little you can realistically do about it. But cor, what a feeling when you open a shortcut. 

Unfortunately that's a feeling I've had just once so far since I started on Tuesday. And I'm on a run of about 3 hours of zero progress right now, so obviously that's sapping my resolve. I need to get to 4-1 again with the last shortcut requirement for a boost.

 

Clearly I'm just not very good at it, as I know some people have raced through already. I feel like there was a bit of missed opportunity here thought to provide a more customisable experience to help us lesser mortals get on.

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I do love the new game, but I have some gripes.

 

Firstly, the fact that all of the collision has had a slight reduction in size is frustrating to me, as a veteran Spelunky 1 player. The whip collision has been slightly narrowed and the end whip animation has been sped up means that its a fair bit harder to whip things, especially bats. Also, the character is slightly narrower, making landing head stomps just that slight bit harder, also rocks being smaller means that can more easily travel over or under the target you are throwing at.

 

I can't believe that the wall flip remains in the game. Its so easy to wall flip off a ledge instead of falling and then turning and grabbing, which means you throw your item away. I just don't understand why that action is in the game? What benefit does it give you? I suppose that if you are dropping down one block to spikes. Still, the item drop just seems obnoxious.

 

Also, the minimum jump height has been slightly reduced, so you can actually jump lower the height needed to grab a block one-up from you, which has caused a fair few deaths.

 

The pick up priority is so frustrating. It seems to me that an arrow is higher priority that the shotgun? I've been killed multiple times trying to grab the shotgun, and being punched away to my death because I grabbed something else first, including dead bodies and arrows and stuff.

 

The lack of sound feedback is also disappointing. You can't hear if you've managed to get a damsel in the exit, or that, past the first time you anger the shop keeper, it doesn't give you feedback on whether they are alive, angered or what.

 

Finally, I do think it can be a tad too much on occasion. Sometimes you just screwed and that's that, which I didn't really feel about the first Spelunky. A case in point:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tomdominer said:

The pick up priority is so frustrating. It seems to me that an arrow is higher priority that the shotgun? I've been killed multiple times trying to grab the shotgun, and being punched away to my death because I grabbed something else first, including dead bodies and arrows and stuff.

This is getting to me particularly, especially when mounts have higher pickup priority and you have to dismount to pick anything else up. I went into a small nook to grab a pet, dismounted, could only pick up the turkey.

 

I think it's mean that you can't pick stuff up while mounted. It's an extra layer of fiddliness to item management. Would it be so bad to have a different button for mount attacks? The left shoulders aren't being used.

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I never trust the pickup priority in the first either, even under no pressure I nearly always end up grabbing the thing I don't want.

 

Pure bullshit also happens all the time in the original, I'm constantly having runs fucked by random mine explosion chain reactions off screen in the ice caves.

 

From the little I've played of 2 I'm not sure the differences in 'feel' are for the better (though it's entirely possible that they are and I just need get used to it) and having hazards blend in to the stages so much seemed a bit unnecessary. I'm sure it'll be great in its own right but I'm not totally convinced they nailed everything from what I've seen.

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4 hours ago, BadgerFarmer said:

Unfortunately that's a feeling I've had just once so far since I started on Tuesday. And I'm on a run of about 3 hours of zero progress right now, so obviously that's sapping my resolve. I need to get to 4-1 again with the last shortcut requirement for a boost.

 

Clearly I'm just not very good at it, as I know some people have raced through already. I feel like there was a bit of missed opportunity here thought to provide a more customisable experience to help us lesser mortals get on.

 

I do feel that's a common trait with rogue lite games like this. When I get a shotgun and a couple of other items I'm having a great time, but because I'm bad at the game it's a massive effort to get to that point, at least for now.

 

At least in the first game you could cheat your way to an early shotgun with the Ash grave.

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I'm surprised they haven't addressed the pickup priority thing. It would be a simple matter to give each item a value, and go for the good stuff first. Or at least designate some items special and the rest not. In the first game I'll often find myself at the bottom of a snake pit having to shuttle a number of broken arrows, a rock, and the damsel out of the hole where the mattock is before I can get it (and if the damsel does its occasional quick get up I might need to do it twice).

 

I wonder if it's been left in intentionally though, because whilst it is a mild annoyance occasionally, you also get the odd chuckle like when you get halfway across a level and realise you're carrying a tiny frog rather than the shotgun you were expecting...

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Im quite surprised by how well received this has been. I loved it at first, but after many hours of making little progress, and having endured many frustrating deaths, I dont feel much compulsion to play this at all. I was a huge Spelunky fan, and I like to think I was pretty good at it. I beat Hell 20+ times, and got all of the trophies.

 

Spelunky 2 just feels like the balance is all wrong. Its so much harder to get £. Its so much harder to get any items. Typically, if I arrive at a shop, I wont be able to afford anything. The first world just starts out really hard rather than ramping up in difficulty, and 1-1 in this feels way harder than 1-4 in the first one for example. It really pisses me off how a) almost every single breakable pot has an enemy in it, and b) (as mentioned above) the whip hit box is very different, so even these enemies can hurt you.

 

The game actually feels easier if you race to the exit, rather than exploring, as there are plenty of frustrating deaths waiting around every corner. Although that way, the later levels are even more difficult without any good items.

 

Im hoping I need to just get better.... but it is very, very frustrating to play at the moment.

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, kempstar said:

Im quite surprised by how well received this has been. I loved it at first, but after many hours of making little progress, and having endured many frustrating deaths, I dont feel much compulsion to play this at all. I was a huge Spelunky fan, and I like to think I was pretty good at it. I beat Hell 20+ times, and got all of the trophies.

 

Spelunky 2 just feels like the balance is all wrong. Its so much harder to get £. Its so much harder to get any items. Typically, if I arrive at a shop, I wont be able to afford anything. The first world just starts out really hard rather than ramping up in difficulty, and 1-1 in this feels way harder than 1-4 in the first one for example. It really pisses me off how a) almost every single breakable pot has an enemy in it, and b) (as mentioned above) the whip hit box is very different, so even these enemies can hurt you.

 

The game actually feels easier if you race to the exit, rather than exploring, as there are plenty of frustrating deaths waiting around every corner. Although that way, the later levels are even more difficult without any good items.

 

Im hoping I need to just get better.... but it is very, very frustrating to play at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think it might be partly down to you expecting to be better at it due to getting so good at the first game?

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Ah that's a shame, but yeah this one is more frustrating that the first one, as others have said.

 

Anyway, got my first win today! Using the final shortcut...

 

Spoiler

I just kept practicing the ice caves always taking a land mine with me to the Yeti's lair. As long as I killed the first one with the land mine, the second one is easy with the Spiked Shoes.

 

Then I stole the bouncers shotgun on 6-3, and at the boss I roped at the very edge of the screen to enable hanging and shooting without falling off. After bombing the bit of ground guarding her face I just.. started blasting. Didn't think it was doing anything at first, there was no blood from my shots but then she turned all grey and the exit opened up :)

 

20200921_205259.thumb.jpg.e3a0cfc78a696023bd9ecc601c4c4f4b.jpg

 

Still feel like I've barely scratched the surface. Despite the difficulty and the amped up unfairness *stares at Neo Babylon* I'm still really loving it!

 

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Spike traps hidden behind plants like that are ridiculous. Almost impossible to see even when you're looking for them. That doesn't really feel like what Spelunky's about for me.

 

I am starting to struggle to find the motivation as well, and I'm certainly not an expert at the first game. The next shortcut objective I have is just plain irritating, and without that next goal it feels kind of aimless, like I'm going through the motions rather than having hilarious misadventures.

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I'm not sure what 's worse - hearing about how good it is, or hearing about how bad it is (relatively speaking). As someone who adores the first game, but has to wait for the Steam version this is torture. (From the little I've watched I do think the small spikes look needlessly fucking hard to see though...), Coupled with something hiding them - that seems like a dick move. Will have to play to be sure though...

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It's a tough one. I really do think this one is more unfair, and it feels like it revels in it. In Spelunky 1, I think *totally* unfair deaths are actually incredibly rare. Even when it's very hard, 99.9% it somehow managed to keep its chaos balanced and juuust on the right side of fairness. There was always something you felt that you could have done better that wasn't impossible. Whereas here not only to the very unfair deaths happen more often, I think even in generation of the levels and the potential positions of traps and mobs it skirts the borders of unfairness in a way that the first doesn't (the trap hidden behind scenery in my previous post being a good example). I listened to the Spelunky Showlike podcast (now called the Eggplant I think) 50th episode with Derek Yu and he does explicitly say that they didn't work to keep the unfairness out of it completely because he wanted it to be a part of the game and play a role in the emotional range the player goes through. And yet at the same time, there's a massively welcome nerf to dark levels! It feels like the game is a little at odds with itself sometimes.

 

Spelunky 1 had that word "perfect" that always seemed to follow it around, and debates aside about whether anything can actually be perfect, I always felt it summed up how it felt as a game so well and it fully deserved to just be associated with the word. The way every tiny detail was crafted. The marriage of complexity and balance. The way each level felt like it tamed random havoc to a point where what you were playing was both playable and wonderfully organic. I think I'm going to need more time with it to decide how much we've actually lost this with Spelunky 2, but in the first 20-30 hours it definitely feels like we have a little.

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Got my first Ironman victory...

 

Spoiler

I love the map and summary you get at the end.

 

20200923_151903.thumb.jpg.7de0c1b13916098469eec903460964f0.jpg

 

Had no idea I didn't take damage until 4-1! Even suspect that may not be true but pretty chuffed with that if it is. Again, just beat Tiamat by damaging her. This time with sticky bombs. Classic.

 

Time to get stuck into some of the secrets now. Already played around with Van Horsing and Vlad which was very cool! And then picking up Excalibur! But that's basically all I've managed apart from finding the Black Market. Need to try and kill Olmec (that second stage lol) and investigate the second normal exit on his level. Still trying to stay clear of spoilers! But getting to the stage where I might need some pointers when I run out of ideas.

 

It's a shame the negative points are a lot less spoiler-y to talk about than the positive ones at this stage of the release. Really looking forward to hearing a load more impressions when the Steam release comes out. There is a whole heap of new content and ideas though and everything I've seen so far has been very cool and a real joy to discover and play around with. There's more of an emphasis on character and a general community vibe too which really rounds out the Spelunky experience in an unexpected way. Some of the slight tweaks to the mechanics and controls are frustrating to get used to and retrain your muscle memory on, but very largely for the better (imho). And the changes I'm not sure about at this stage might well be seen in a different light when I know a lot more of the secrets and tricks.

 

Didn't mean to sound down on it. It's a real treasure trove of new ideas and fun improvements/evolutions of old ideas.

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I took a few days away from this (because I started playing Hades), but came back to it today. It seems the break served me well. I managed to unlock the final shortcut and got to area 6 a few times. Surprisingly got all the way through to 6-4 twice, but didn't know what to do when I got there.

 

So feeling a bit better about it now overall. I suppose I need to try and actually complete a run at some point.

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I'm feeling the frustrations above as well. Had a few more hours on the game last night and only managed to get to 1-4 twice. Most of my deaths were on 1-1 or 1-2. I completely agree that just getting to the exit seems the best option because most of this time I was scouring the levels for every goodie I could get.

 

But regardless of that the first world is just seriously punishing. I have some runs that end in 3 seconds. I reached the 4-1 boss twice and was instakilled by him before I could even learn anything about him. With auto run on and playing on console there is a kind of looseness to the momentum which also makes it really easy to run into enemies and overshoot jumps.

 

The bugging thing is its still compelling even as it gets increasingly frustrating. The failure to progress and the repetition of replaying the first worlds is what made me give up on Spelunky 1, but already I'm hitting that wall with the sequel. The main problem is I don't feel like I'm progressing, I'm not learning anything new in the first stages and I'm definitely not getting better at the game. In stuff like Dark Souls I'll grind away at bosses (reluctantly) because I feel like I'm improving. In Spelunky I often feel like its unfair in general, whether its the general harshness of the situations you are put in or simply bad luck. It just gets draining.

 

It's really sad because is a game I want to see more of, to see what the hype is about, to uncover its worlds and secrets. But its just become a grind of the same old levels and for players who didn't play Spelunky 1 (or much of it), its even harsher than the first game.

 

I'll have to return to this after a break. I'll probably just plough through the levels and try to unlock the shortcut to world 2 so at least I can get away from world 1 for a while.

 

Ps Also has anyone else struggled with double jumping when on mounts? I play naturally on the joysticks but I must hit Up slightly on the joystick when I jump. That makes me jump off the mount in mid air instead of jumping which is really frustrating. I guess I might have to switch to dpad for mounts but I find dpad uncomfortable to use on PS4. Has anyone else had this issue? Do any of you use the dpad?

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I use the d-pad. The PS one is never ideal, but I can't use analogue sticks for this sort of game.

 

I went and watched some old vids of Spelunky HD earlier to see if this really is more difficult, or whether I was just imagining it. And yeah, it really is, at least early on. The first area looks empty in comparison to the new one.

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D-Pad is completely essential imho. Using analogue sticks is madness! :) I actually think the DS4 is the best D-pad around. I even have a dongle so I can use it on Switch for Hollow Knight.

 

@Alan Stock my advice would be to concentrate on opening up the shortcuts, like you say. They're not really used once you start to try and do "proper" runs but for everyone who doesn't have crazy levels of skill and reactions they give a desperately needed sense of progression and achievement for the steep early learning curve, and allow you to make dumb mistakes over and over in the new and unfamiliar worlds without having to restart from 1-1 every time.

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On 21/09/2020 at 14:28, kempstar said:

Im quite surprised by how well received this has been. I loved it at first, but after many hours of making little progress, and having endured many frustrating deaths, I dont feel much compulsion to play this at all. I was a huge Spelunky fan, and I like to think I was pretty good at it. I beat Hell 20+ times, and got all of the trophies.

 

Spelunky 2 just feels like the balance is all wrong. Its so much harder to get £. Its so much harder to get any items. Typically, if I arrive at a shop, I wont be able to afford anything. The first world just starts out really hard rather than ramping up in difficulty, and 1-1 in this feels way harder than 1-4 in the first one for example. It really pisses me off how a) almost every single breakable pot has an enemy in it, and b) (as mentioned above) the whip hit box is very different, so even these enemies can hurt you.

 

The game actually feels easier if you race to the exit, rather than exploring, as there are plenty of frustrating deaths waiting around every corner. Although that way, the later levels are even more difficult without any good items.

 

Im hoping I need to just get better.... but it is very, very frustrating to play at the moment.

 

 

 

 


Which absolute weed wrote this? :lol: This is brilliant. 

 

I think I will follow a similiar path to Spelunky:

 

Boo hoo this is so hard I hate it

This is fun, but I cant imagine ever completing it

Wow, I beat Olmec! Whats next!

Ill try and get to the city of gold, then im done

Fuck it, I am going to Hell!

OK once I can beat Hell consistently on the daily challenge, im out

 

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Been playing a few days now. Initially I was not impressed. It is not as good as the first, but is nearly as good. It is just nice to play new and different spelunky.

 

I would compare this to peggle Vs peggle 2. It still has the magic but seems to be made with less focus and they've done a bunch of little bad things just to fuck with it.

 

Playing with the stick rather than the d-pad is actually impossible, it has real trouble registering which way you've moved the stick. This might be the worst game I've ever played on ps for the analogue stick. This is kinda ok though because you'd never not use the d-pad on this game anyway.

 

The jumping/movement/speed all feels off. It is consistent but is faster and different to the first game. Annoying because they got this exactly perfect in the first game and now the speed feels out and it doesn't feel like it lines up with the level design or sprite size/scaling. I have got used to this now but definitely prefer the original. I kept looking round the menu screens for a slider to adjust it down.

 

They've added too much fuckery. There is now too much going on around you, a lot of which you can't control and especially in the early game. Like someone else said this makes it more of a chase to the exit rather than exploration. 

 

A lot of this I feel can be fixed in an update. 

 

Other than that the graphics feel less pure but are more varied. The format is as addictive as ever. I think I like the music better in this one.

 

Will carry on playing and can see myself still bumbling through it in years to come. The first game was a once or twice in a decade perfect thing; it was very unlikely they would be able to top it. It doesn't replace the first but is decent enough to sit alongside. 

 

 

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