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Harvey Weinstein and other Hollywood predators


kerraig UK
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19 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

The David Cage story merits a mention here if only for his Hollywood name dropping as a defence.

 

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/01/david-cages-quantic-dreams-accused-of-being-a-toxic-workplace/

 

 

 

 

However

 

 

Woah, that's pretty ballsy. Because what journalist isn't going to follow this up by contacting Ellen Page and asking for her opinion?

 

Loads more discussion here https://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/topic/303296-dailymail-article-on-david-cages-detroit/&page=2

 

 

Mentioned it in that thread - Beyond was released in 2013.. any work Ellen Page did with Cage would have ended a year or more before it was publicly known she was gay - so there's little chance he knew and it's an even more bullshit excuse..

 

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14 minutes ago, MDY said:

 

Mentioned it in that thread - Beyond was released in 2013.. any work Ellen Page did with Cage would have ended a year or more before it was publicly known she was gay - so there's little chance he knew and it's an even more bullshit excuse..

 

 

Which raises the chances of her seeing this and calling him on his bullshit. Surely he must have the self awareness to have factored that risk in when he said it. No wait, my mistake sorry!

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26 minutes ago, MDY said:

 

Mentioned it in that thread - Beyond was released in 2013.. any work Ellen Page did with Cage would have ended a year or more before it was publicly known she was gay - so there's little chance he knew and it's an even more bullshit excuse..

 

 

To be absolutely fair, she wasn't out publically before 2014, but she might have been more open about her sexuality in private, i.e. with people she was working with. That said, I would be very surprised if she shared anything like that with David fucking Cage of all people.

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I've been working through Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee since it went up on Netlfix, and that's a tough ride at times despite only being a couple of years old. Almost everyone namechecks Louis CK, Cosby occasionally gets a positive mention, and the Aziz Ansari episode rolled under the slab last week like Indiana Jones. I wonder if the new 24-part series for Netflix will exhibit a more cautious approach to namedropping.

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Just watch something else on Netflix. How about House of Cards instead? Wait maybe not. How about The Ranch with Danny Masterson? Okay, that's off the table. Nevermind, could always watch Bright written by Max Landis... tell you what watch something on Amazon Prime Video instead.

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34 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Just watch something else on Netflix. How about House of Cards instead? Wait maybe not. How about The Ranch with Danny Masterson? Okay, that's off the table. Nevermind, could always watch Bright written by Max Landis... tell you what watch something on Amazon Prime Video instead.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/17/amazon-studios-roy-price-quite-sexual-harassment-claims

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10 hours ago, Rowan Morrison said:

I've been working through Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee since it went up on Netlfix, and that's a tough ride at times despite only being a couple of years old. Almost everyone namechecks Louis CK, Cosby occasionally gets a positive mention, and the Aziz Ansari episode rolled under the slab last week like Indiana Jones. I wonder if the new 24-part series for Netflix will exhibit a more cautious approach to namedropping.


I also think Seinfeld comes across like an entitled ignorant asshat more times than is comfortable. Which is a shame because he's extremely likeable and affable at other times. 

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On 16/01/2018 at 09:01, RubberJohnny said:

The Aziz Ansari story is hitting a lot of backlash as overreach

 

NYT: Aziz Ansari guilty of not being a mind reader

 

The humiliation of Aziz Ansari

 

CNN journalist Ashleigh Banfield slammed Aziz Ansari's accuser in an open letter

 

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/01/16/open-letter-to-aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-accuser-banfield.hln

 

Theres been a ton of backlash to the Aziz story from alot of women in media.

 

 

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8 hours ago, kerraig UK said:


I also think Seinfeld comes across like an entitled ignorant asshat more times than is comfortable. Which is a shame because he's extremely likeable and affable at other times. 

 

You can see the weight on his shoulders sometimes when he's recognised out and about in the street and has heard it all a thousand times before, but then he's got a format which involves driving rare cars around Manhattan and then getting out of them and walking down the street, so, you know, this is the life he chose. The aloofness is usually clearly a performance, though and, as you say, he does often seem to be genuinely caught off guard (the Reiner / Brooks and Stewart episodes are good examples).

 

The real problem watching CiCDC now is that you can't help speculating about skeletons and closets, which isn't healthy at all. It's not a problem that's unique to the show, it's just that all the 'historical' references from twelve months ago make it tougher than usual.

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1 hour ago, Orion said:

 

CNN journalist Ashleigh Banfield slammed Aziz Ansari's accuser in an open letter

 

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/01/16/open-letter-to-aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-accuser-banfield.hln

 

Theres been a ton of backlash to the Aziz story from alot of women in media.

 

 

 

There's been a lot of pushback here as well and I think some of that is by design with a lot of people who don't like the whole #metoo thing using this as ammo. Thing is noone is asking for his scalp about this. Noone is saying he ought to be arrested. What this should be is an opporutnity to talk about consent and reading the room and trying to be better people.

 

There's a whole lot of discussion here at https://www.metafilter.com/171820/sexual-liberation-without-consent-is-rape-culture

 

Definately worth reading if you want a female perspective on this.

 

The main point made over and over and over again in the comments can be boiled down to this.

it's not women's inability to say no, it's men's inability - refusal - to hear it.

 

Also, for those who think that this was just a first date gone wrong please read the claims made here (content warning obviously and NSFW) https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355

 

I'm not sure that "the claw" should be first date material, at least not without a long conversation about limits and safewords first. Especially when the other party is anything less than enthusiastic.

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49 minutes ago, Radish said:

Ashleigh Banfield is a female perspective. As are the articles linked in the post he quoted. 

 

And these are some other female perspectives. I'm seeing a lot of guys who want to pushback using these two articles (as well as http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/babes-aziz-ansari-piece-was-a-gift-to-anyone-who-wants-to-derail-metoo-20180116-h0j3kf.html

Babe's Aziz Ansari piece was a gift to anyone who wants to derail #MeToo ) as proof positive that #metoo has gone too far.

 

I'll throw this article in the mix as it's probably closest to my point of view http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/were-asking-the-wrong-questions-about-aziz-ansari-20180116-h0jdcl.html

 



Will Ansari's career be "destroyed" as Flanagan warns? Maybe. Probably not. But why is that always the immediate concern whenever women attempt to speak out about the ways men choose to, not just degrade us, but wilfully ignore that this is what's happening? As others have argued, Ansari is an accomplished comedian and writer who has positioned himself as an ally and expert on modern dating. His job is to pick up on the nuances that both of these things present. Meanwhile, women are given such conflicting instructions on what we are and aren't allowed to do in response to men's predatory behaviour that some of us - including me - can read a painfully vulnerable account of a young woman on a date gone horribly wrong and instinctively think, "Oh, well that sounds just like a lot of bad sex I've had. It's not great, but it's not like it's assault."

We have a long way to go. These stories, as painful and challenging as they might be, are just the start of how we figure out how to get there.

 

I think there's definately a conversation to be had about consent and while I could go on about it here....the #metoo thread in off topic is probably the better place to talk about that.

 

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4 minutes ago, Illyria said:

 

Marie Le Conte hits the nail on the head.

 



We expect more from men because we want to have more faith in them.

I refuse to see them as foolish animals, clumsy and to be pitied because life isn’t easy when one simply cannot understand the complex and confusing women around them, choosing instead to be guided by their sweaty crotches.

This is why some of the responses to the claims about Aziz Ansari felt puzzling – sure, we could have an argument about why the woman didn’t leave, but why not talk about why he felt the need to keep trying it on?

Why can so many men feel so comfortable trying to sleep with women who don’t want to sleep with them? Why do so many men think they can plunge their tongue down a woman’s throat before making sure it’s wanted?

Incidents which to some feel too small to be scandalous actually reveal the way men see women, and if they have no trouble crossing women’s boundaries once or twice, where will they stop?

We’ve been raised to see men as the superior intellectual gender, so spare me the idea that they just don’t know what they’re doing.

If women can go through life without lunging at men, groping them, and treating their bodies as property, then surely we can expect men to do the same in return.

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https://jezebel.com/babe-what-are-you-doing-1822114753

 

Quote

Because of the amateurish way the Babe report was handled (her wine choices; her outfit), and the way it was written with an almost prurient and unnecessarily macabre interest in the minute details of their interaction (“the claw”), it left the subject open to further attacks, the kind that are entirely, exhaustingly predictable. The usual subjects emerged with the usual opinions: within minutes, alt-right toad Mike Cernovich was dismissing Ansari as a “beta”; within hours, neoliberal icon Caitlin Flanagan had written a confused, disingenuous essay in The Atlantic using Ansari’s race as a rhetorical device for her disdain for #MeToo; within days, hardline carceral-state cheerleader Ashleigh Banfield was accusing Grace of harming the entire #MeToo movement. To no one’s surprise, The New York Times’s Bari Weissweighed in on Monday night, rolling her eyes at what she considered to be Grace’s requirement that Ansari be “a mind-reader.”

 

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There are so many different ways to look at this with so many interested parties which is why this is a bit of a mess.

 

What makes this a little murkier is that the publication Babe recently became the recipient from a lot of funding from Murdoch.

 

https://www.thecut.com/2018/01/what-is-babe-net-the-website-behind-the-aziz-ansari-story.html

 

Quote

Rupert Murdoch is one of their biggest investors.


In September 2017, conservative media mogul Rupert Murdoch’s company News Corp. invested £4.6 million ($6.3 million) in Babe’s parent company, Tab, making it a minority stakeholder. Emma Tucker, the deputy director of the Times of London, has joined Tab’s board of directors.

 

So how does this factor into it? Two theories.

 

The story was written in such a poor way to discredit the #metoo movement.

 

No need to rehash this too much. @The Bag covered it above. Murdoch isn't a great believer that harrassment is widespread.

 

http://deadline.com/2017/12/rupert-murdoch-speaks-on-sexual-misconduct-at-fox-news-calls-allegations-all-nonsense-1202228632/

 

Quote

 


Murdoch claimed he quickly fired Ailes within hours when he learned of sexual misconduct allegations against him. “And there’s been nothing else since then.” The time period was actually more than two weeks, with former Fox News host Gretchen Carlson suing Ailes for sexual harassment on July 6 and Ailes resigning on July 21. During that time, seven other women, including host Megyn Kelly, stepped forward with similar accusations against Ailes.

Since that period, Bill O’Reilly was similar accused of sexual misconduct and fired amid allegations from five women, resulting in $13 million in payouts.

“That was largely political, since we’re conservative,” he said of the overall accusations. “Of course, [now] all the liberals are going down the drain. NBC’s in deep trouble. CBS, their stars.”

Of other allegations of sexual misconduct among the vast number of media, Hollywood, political and business people, Murdoch said, “There are really bad cases, where people should be moved aside, and there are other things, which probably amount to a bit of flirting.”

 

 

Much easier to present a half baked case as a strawman and then use it to demolish #metoo on the logic "if this story is questionable then all stories are questionable."

 

Or

 

The story was written in a way to discredit a political enemy (and progressives in general.)

 

Back in 2015 Murdoch took to twitter there's a blow by blow post of his posts and Aziz taking them down in rather spectacular fashion.

https://www.thewrap.com/parks-and-recreation-star-aziz-ansari-rips-pro-pedophile-rupert-murdoch-for-jihadist-cancer-comments/

 

Basically it went like this.

Quote

 


Rupert Murdoch made a generalization last week that all Muslims “must be held responsible” for the Charlie Hebdo massacre in France, and “Parks and Recreation” star Aziz Ansari turned the questionable logic against the media tycoon on Sunday by declaring that pedophilia in the Catholic Church is all #RupersFault.

“Are you responsible for the evil shit all Christians do or just the insane amount of evil you yourself contribute to?” the comedian tweeted in response to Murdoch’s analysis of the terror attack on Charlie Hebdo in Paris. “Rupert Murdoch is responsible for all pedophilia committed by anyone Catholic. Rupert Murdoch, why are you pro-pedophile?”

 

 

 

Brave. But anyone who's locked horns in public with Murdoch surely knows he always gets the last word. ANd this might be the case here. He dared to question and show up Murdoch in public. And now comes the followup.

 

So which is more likely? Probably both, there's the opportunity for a two for one win here for Murdoch. Which doesn't make the story against Mr Ansari untrue. But pumping it up is a great way of both discrediting a comedian with progressive leanings while at the same time sabotaging the #metoo movement.

 

 

 

 

 

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That's rather eliding the point, making it about reactions rather than anything substantive.

 

It does not seem - and he doesn't appear to be accused of - anything illegal. There doesn't seem to be any great power imbalance other than his fame - which he can do little to remove - and she initiated the contact. It seems reasonable she fed back to him she had a bad time, whatever you think of their respective actions. It seems less reasonable she fed it back to the entire world. Particularly in pleasant climate.

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12 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

If we're entering the world of power politics between artists and fans, then how come no musicians are entering the fray? I know for a fact that a certain pop star used to piss in a watering can and then make his groupies shower in it.

 

There’s been a high profile case about an Australian singer / entertainer / soap star in just the last fortnight.

 

There’s been a few bands break up over the past six months over allegations of sexual assault or exploitation of young fans and a few agents that have lost their jobs over creepy behaviour.

 

A lot of this was rumbling along pre metoo

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The writer of the original story on babe.net did not react well to Ashleigh Banfield.

 

 

 

“Ashleigh — someone I am certain nobody under the age of 45 has heard of — I hope the 500 retweets on the single news write-up made that burgundy lipstick, bad highlights, second-wave feminist has-been really relevant for a little while.” 

 

This is getting really ugly.

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Yeah but, the rolling stones and peadophilia, Jared Leto and violent sex, Tool and genuine violence. Groupies, what goes on tour... etc

 

Music industry seems to be getting a very weird pass so far. My only experience with that industry is as a rock DJ and music vid producer, but the shit I have seen.

I was in the tour bus of a band once, and some 15 year old who they gave a lift wouldn't give the singer a blow job. So they pulled over somewhere (I dont even remember where) and just kicked her out. Hundreds of miles from home, middle of the night. 

Why is the music industry getting a pass so far, do we think?

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49 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

Yeah but, the rolling stones and peadophilia, Jared Leto and violent sex, Tool and genuine violence. Groupies, what goes on tour... etc

 

Music industry seems to be getting a very weird pass so far. My only experience with that industry is as a rock DJ and music vid producer, but the shit I have seen.

I was in the tour bus of a band once, and some 15 year old who they gave a lift wouldn't give the singer a blow job. So they pulled over somewhere (I dont even remember where) and just kicked her out. Hundreds of miles from home, middle of the night. 

Why is the music industry getting a pass so far, do we think?

 

We expect it so the media don't care as much. We all know the music industry is horrendous by now. How some bands have treated groupies has become part of Rock history like Led Zeppelin, Motley Crue etc.

 

"Mick Jagger has sex with 14 year old girl in 1972" would surprise no one. Louis CK worlds number 1 comedian likes to make women watch him masturbate. Beloved actor Dustin Hoffman is actually a bullying dickhead to women. That surprises us and gets clicks/sells newspapers.

 

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