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kerraig UK

Harvey Weinstein and other Hollywood predators

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1 minute ago, kerraig UK said:

That's so naive. You'd have to have some pretty solid evidence to not get sued into oblivion by TWC. 

 

Yeah, I think you're probably right in reality.  Just pisses me off knowing that people knew this was going on and there seemingly wasn't a way to stop it.  

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12 minutes ago, SeanR said:

 

but you're not victim-blaming. Right?

 

 

Are you saying that Macfarlane is now a victim?

 

I'm getting a bit confused here, if the expectation is that victims should not come forward to report crimes, and neither should people who have knowledge of the crime, then it seems unlikely that many people are going to be convicted of crimes.  Leaving it to someone else to report a crime so you don't have to doesn't sit entirely right with me. Someone, somewhere eventually has to do something otherwise people like Weinstein, and there will be people like him in the future in Hollywood and in other industries, are free to carry on  sexually assaulting people. 

 

I'm usually behind the curve on most of these things so apologies if I have offended anyone.  I'm genuinely not trying to be a prick!

 

Edit: Plus Illyria has just written a much better post anyway which I do agree with, I really can't judge other people in a different situation. 

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But that's my point above. This appears to be an open secret and a shitload of 'powerful men' in hollywood knew about it. Bradley Pitts has confirmed he confronted Weinstein about it. They carry blame for not doing something about it, not the women who've been assaulted who were put in an impossible position.

 

Edit: @Illyria

 

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I don't know how much this one is an open secret or completely baseless rumour and innuendo... but I wonder if Bryan Singer is shitting himself right now?

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I can't blame people for not coming forward in such circumstances, but what will be hard to take is looking back now over the last twenty years or so how many people (men and women) were happy to smile in pictures with him, and gush about him when accepting an award if it was such an open secret. 

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Weinstein's behaviour was an accepted norm in Hollywood for decades. The casting couch was actually a thing (as Marilyn herself may have mentioned) and Weinstein's hero Louis B Mayer was a total sleaze. I think more will come to light in the coming weeks. It was seen as a perk of the job by many in his position.

 

It seems since Saville that the Entertainment world has turned in on itself - and there must be many in Hollywood sweating it right now.

 

Charlie Sheen - you scared yet?

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Good article in the New Statesmen about it all:

 

Quote

In two short years Weinstein appeared to have lost his Midas touch, and with it the power to hand out successful careers. It’s not hard to see how that may have weakened his ability to maintain a veil of silence around his behaviour. Many women have have cited his influence, and a lack of support from other industry professionals, as factors in their reluctance to come forward. “If Harvey were to discover my identity, I’m worried that he could ruin my life,” one former employee told the New Yorker. “It felt like David versus Goliath,” another added, “the guy with all the money and the power flexing his muscle and quashing the allegations and getting rid of them.” Had they felt that other powerful men in Hollywood had their back, perhaps they would have felt able to speak up sooner. But for decades Weinstein was more powerful than pretty much anyone else.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/film/2017/10/harvey-weinstein-shows-hollywood-protects-its-abusers-until-their-star-begins

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3 hours ago, NickC said:

I don't know how much this one is an open secret or completely baseless rumour and innuendo... but I wonder if Bryan Singer is shitting himself right now?

 

See also: Michael Bay.

 

The man pretty much admitted that Megan Fox audition tape for transformers was her washing his car (with the tape going "missing"). And nobody seemed to bat an eyelid when it occurred.

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British actress Jessica Hynes has come forward to claim she was dropped for refusing to screen test in a bikini for Harvey Weinstein as the Hollywood mogul faces a string of sexual harassment claims.

The Tony-nominated actress, best known for her roles in the BBC sitcom W1A and Channel 4's Spaced, claimed on Twitter today: 'I was offered a film role at 19, Harvey Weinstien came on board and wanted me to screen test in a bikini. I refused & lost the job.'

 

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Lea Seydoux is the latest to speak out - in The Guardian - about how Harvey jumped on her in a hotel room and tried to kiss her. Talks about a lot of directors trying it on as well.

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Supposedly he hopped on a plane to somewhere in Europe for 'rehab' AKA the Polanski strategy.

 

Various reports about Ben Affleck's gropiness and knowledge of Weinstein’s actions starting to surface after he posted an I knew nothing and am horrified message.

 

Imagine various execs at Warner Bros are shitting their pants about now.

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On 09/10/2017 at 13:24, JohnC said:

 

Always hated that cunt any time I'd watch Movie Fights. 

 

 

Back  to HW, first person I thought about when I heard about this was Kevin Smith, had a quick check on twitter to see if he's mentioned anything: 

 

 

 

Mixed responses from people to that tweet  some questioning how much he knew etc... 

 

Please don't say Silent Bob is one of the bad guys of Hollywood. 

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On 11/10/2017 at 09:39, SeanR said:

I had to start skipping through that. It's horrible.

 

On 11/10/2017 at 10:41, kerraig UK said:

That recording is horrible to listen to. 20 years of that shit. I wonder if there's enough for criminal charges.

Honestly, you find it shocking, but I find it familiar. I'd say that stuff is probably similar to stuff that almost every woman has heard at some point or another. Men are socialised to believe that they need to be persistent and wear women down, rather than backing off when she expresses reluctance. There is also so much social shaming of women's sexuality that people assume the gender norm is for women to play coy and men to have to overcome their defences.

 

On 11/10/2017 at 11:29, Charles said:

I'm really not trying to victim blame, but also prioritising your career rather than take action to prevent him from abusing other women seems a bit off to me too.  Weinstein may have been powerful but Jolie was for many years married to Pitt so it is not exactly like she didn't have the clout to take this on years ago.  If you are incredibly rich and powerful and know that a man in your industry is abusing women and you choose not to come forward then that's not on in my book. People in privileged possessions I think have a duty to do something about a person if they know they are, or likely are, abusing other people. 

 

This is not about Jolie really, I get the feeling that it will come to light that this was an open secret in Hollywood and that many people, both women and men, knew or had heard plausible information that this stuff was going on and they all chose to stay silent.  It's a bit like Saville isn't it in that it seems that many people knew all about it and yet chose not to do anything about it.  Indeed, this could well be the US' Saville's moment and is probably the tip of the iceberg. 

I get the point you are trying to make - that everyone who had power who had an inkling about what was going on should have done something to prevent/expose it and protect the women involved - but you've expressed it really really badly.

 

First off, you have spent several posts saying it is the responsibility of the female victims to speak up, when they are the very people whose vulnerability and lack of power was exploited, and who then carry shame and traumatic memories that they have to overcome to maintain their ability to work and operate in an environment where Weinstein and men like him have all the power. That's a really difficult ask. Women who speak up about sexual assault are dirtied by association, accused of being liars, have their sexual history raked over, and are then blamed for not fighting back, not speaking up earlier, giving mixed messages, continuing to interact with the person. There is no winning. And they have to revisit traumatic memories and tell shaming and highly personal stories that expose their vulnerability to their colleagues, friends and the general public. Anyone who speaks up is exceptionally brave. Anyone who chooses to stay silent is still not culpable for the actions of their abuser.

 

Second, you've said that concerns should have been reported to the police, as if suspicions and personal experiences without witnesses are enough to build a case. Sadly without biological/medical evidence they are not. The examples that were reported to HR departments and the police led to no prosecutions and were never compiled. Even Bill Cosby with 50 allegations has only had one reach criminal charges and that reached a hung jury. Savile had allegations and rumours, and some reports to police and the BBC, yet nothing happened until after his death. The Fox CEO and lead newscaster were only dismissed after multiple allegations and have faced no criminal charges (and in fact got a $40 million parachute in the former case and continued to be endorsed by Fox despite multiple allegations in the latter). The saddest figures are the way that sexual crimes do not reach convictions by comparison to other forms of crime. I've read estimates that 90% of rapes, sexual assault and child sexual abuse go unreported to authorities, and that 90% of those reported do not reach prosecution, and that less than half of those prosecuted lead to a conviction. That means that 99% of perpetrators don't get convicted - and there is bias in which ones do, as richer, more powerful and more intelligent perpetrators are much harder to convict than those facing the disadvantages of poverty, mental health problems and learning disability, who are more likely to leave evidence or confess and don't have the deep pockets for an expert legal team to defend them.

 

On 11/10/2017 at 11:56, Illyria said:

It's always easy to point fingers when you haven't been in the situation yourself. It's impossible to say how you would've dealt with the situation. And this is America*, I mean, you have people openly defying the law/misusing it (e.g. killing of blacks by the police) and getting away with it, despite proof. Imagine trying to go up against someone so powerful, without any proof? Jolie at least warned others of working with him. I am never gonna judge a woman about how she handled a difficult situation that involves a powerful man. None of us know how we would have acted.

 

*edit: the country that elected DONALD FUCKING TRUMP President, after everything that was known about him

Agreed. Society is full of powerful men who exploit women, and other people who normalise this, turn a blind eye to it, play along with or facilitate the behaviour, or continue to suck up to them for personal gain regardless of what they do to others. It is a serious problem in society, and the fact that a serial sexual assaulter and overt misogynist was elected president of the USA says it all really. I am just glad that people are starting to speak out more against institutional abuse, and that perpetrated by people in power. At least this time the consequences are substantial: he has been fired, kicked out of BAFTA, his CBE is likely to be withdrawn, his wife has left him, and he has been roundly condemned by industry colleagues and public figures.

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And just to add, from personal experience, it is bloody hard to speak up, and bloody hard to get anyone to take you seriously when you do. And you feel responsible for being a victim, confused, ambivalent and shamed about what happened. Here are some examples from my own life (I think I've mentioned at least one of them before):

Spoiler

A level physics lesson, watching a demonstration at the front, a boy in my class puts his hand on my boob. I was shocked, but I felt like he'd have just claimed it was accidental and I was making a fuss about nothing if I said anything, and what was my other option, to make a scene interrupt the lesson and have everyone in the class turn around and stare at me? I was already the only girl in the class. So I said nothing. And he took my silence as compliance and did it again the next week. Put his hand into my top that time. Turns out it gets harder to speak up once you haven't the first time. So he kept doing it in every demonstration he could for the rest of the course. He was in a band with friends of mine, and I never said anything to them about it either. I didn't tell a teacher or even consider reporting him to the police. He is now married with kids.

 

Went out drinking with a group of friends at age 16. Boy with a bottle of fortified wine got me drunk, had a bit of a snog (that I didn't solicit but didn't object to) and then walked me off down the dock road behind some lorries where he spent 40 minutes trying to get my clothing off and persuade me to have sex. I had not done more than kissing and a bit of fondling through clothes at this point in my life, and did not want to have sex with him. I kept pulling my clothes back on, but I was acutely aware that I had kissed him in front of other people, and that I was not capable of running away, and that if it came to a fight he would win. So I didn't yell, or fight, or even tell him to fuck off. He did eventually give up and go away, leaving me dishevelled and partly clothed alone on the dock road, where I had to make my way to a phone box and arrange transport home - having long missed my lift. I didn't tell my parents or report it to the police, after all, what had happened? I'd snogged a bloke and then he'd tried to take my clothes off and I'd pulled them back on - that wasn't a crime as I understood it, and it would just be his word against mine. I told several mutual friends what had happened, and the group response was to make us shake hands and pretend to get along. Years later he stuck my hand on his erection at a party, and I didn't bother saying anything to anyone. I looked him up on LinkedIn the other day. He now manages a private bank.

 

Two years later I let a guy who was a friend of a friend into my room in my student house as he was upset and wanted to talk, and he cornered me and tried to kiss me, pronouncing that his intention for us to have sex. That time he was drunk and I wasn't, so I could dodge. He exposed himself, but I told him I wasn't going to participate and my clothes were staying on, and after a while he gave up and went home. He came over the next morning to "apologise" so I didn't tell his girlfriend. I told several of my (male) friends what had happened, and they each changed the subject or asked why I'd let a drunk guy into my room. Again, I didn't report it.

 

Those are the worst examples, but there have been lots of more trivial examples (from being told I'd make a good stripper by customers and my boss when I worked in a pub, to male friends who said they'd imagined me in sexual scenarios, to persistent unwanted sexual approaches). Luckily for me none of them involved violence or made me feel traumatised. However, if any of these three guys was later convicted of rape I'd feel terrible for not speaking up - but was there really anything I could have done to prevent it?

I'm quite a confident person, who has strong opinions and would normally speak up about issues. But as a teenager, and in context, I wasn't able to. I felt I had to continue to allow young men who had been sexually inappropriate to me to be part of my social circle. So if I had been an aspiring actress who was auditioning for a role that might kickstart my career, and when I was sexually assaulted it had been by a powerful industry kingmaker of a man with the capacity and reputation to shame me to the media or sabotage my career I can only begin to imagine how powerful the forces at play would have felt.

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Also, Weinstein rather than some coercive, opportunist had a whole network of enablers that he surrounded himself by; from honeypot assistants that were used to snare the young talent, to studio people used to procure ‘Harvey’s women’. Ughh. The amount of stars coming out saying they’d heard rumours  plus the amount of legal might used to quash claims shows how much power and fear he had in the industry.

 

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I didn’t realise that tape was actually from a police sting. So the police had this and it still wasn’t enough to do anything. 

 

And people still question why people are only coming forward after the floodgates begin to open. 

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The tape makes my skin crawl. Poor woman, even if she was involved in a sting (I'm amazed nothing came of it) and presumably somewhat prepared for what might occur. The way he tells her shes "making a scene" when she literally just wants to leave the room is horrible, and when he finally gives up and tells her (because of course she needs his permission) she can go, it's like he's mentally crossing her off some list. They're not "friends" anymore, she hasn't done him a favour so he won't do her a favour. He brings his kids into it as well, what an odious prick.

 

7 hours ago, kerraig UK said:

Considering how much he owes his success to Harvey I'm finding Tarantinos silence pretty conspicuous.

 

Yeah, there's loads of men in the industry who have said nothing at all yet. Tarantino sort of wears his fetishes and creepiness on his sleeve though, and if you compare say Tina Fey's joke about him at the Golden Globes ("Quentin Tarantino is here - the star of all my sexual nightmares") to the one by Seth McFarlane about Harvey Weinstein linked earlier in the thread, I don't think there's the same "I'm saying what we're all thinking" subtext. All the same, he must have had some idea of what was going on, and he's a powerful guy in his own right. Same goes for Brad Pitt. Same goes for a lot of men who have repeatedly worked with him.

 

If bloody Jessica Hynes has a story about Harvey Weinstein's lechery, I'm wondering if it's going to be easier to start asking which women in the industry don't?

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Probably just a case of enough people spamming the report button, it's an automated process on most social media platforms.

 

Looks like Hynes has deleted her tweet. I don't necessarily blame her, probably brought a lot of unwanted attention from tabloids and internet dross.

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8 hours ago, kerraig UK said:

Considering how much he owes his success to Harvey I'm finding Tarantinos silence pretty conspicuous.

 

I was going to post the same. He compared his relationship to Weinstein to a 22 year old marriage at one point.

 

2 hours ago, macosx said:

Also, Weinstein rather than some coercive, opportunist had a whole network of enablers that he surrounded himself by; from honeypot assistants that were used to snare the young talent, to studio people used to procure ‘Harvey’s women’. Ughh. The amount of stars coming out saying they’d heard rumours  plus the amount of legal might used to quash claims shows how much power and fear he had in the industry.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/oct/10/georgina-chapman-harvey-weinstein-wife-split

 

Cara Delevingne -

 



Delevingne had gone to a meeting with Weinstein and a director in a hotel lobby about an upcoming film but, after the director left, she said Weinstein asked her to stay and chat with him. 

She wrote: “As soon as we were alone, he began to brag about all the actresses he had slept with and how he had made their careers and spoke about other inappropriate things of a sexual nature. He then invited me to his room. 

“I quickly declined and asked his assistant if my car was outside. She said it wasn’t and wouldn’t be for a bit and I should go to his room.

 

I hope investigations don't stop with Weinstein and continue into the Weinstein company.

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3 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

Some action has been taken due to Rose McGowan’s tweets.

 

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/rose-mcgowan-twitter-account-suspended-1202587987/amp/

 

Basically her twitter account has been suspended.

 

ffs

 

Is this a joke

 

I fully expect Twitter to cancel the suspension and offer an apology. What on earth are they thinking?

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5 hours ago, geekette said:

I get the point you are trying to make - that everyone who had power who had an inkling about what was going on should have done something to prevent/expose it and protect the women involved - but you've expressed it really really badly.

 

Yeah, you're right.  On reflection, certainly from the point of view of the women he abused, it would have been a really difficult decision what to do in those circumstances, knowing that in all likelihood if you had reported it to the Police that nothing would have become of it.  Apologies to the way it came across initially, it was a bit of a naive viewpoint to take. 

 

I do think that this is the industry's Saville moment and I think it will be eye-opening when we fully realise the number of people who were involved or turned a blind eye to what was happening.

 

I also think this may lead to a reappraisal of many other people in the industry, past and present.  We've just had the allegations about Whedon's conduct with employees and people he had power over and it's never really been a secret that Gene Roddenberry wasn't exactly clean cut when it came to sexual encounters with actresses on his shows. Are we about to find out that Weinstein's actions were not just unreported on because of his high profile status and power but also because similar actions were and are rife across the industry.

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24 minutes ago, Charles said:

I also think this may lead to a reappraisal of many other people in the industry, past and present.  We've just had the allegations about Whedon's conduct with employees and people he had power over and it's never really been a secret that Gene Roddenberry wasn't exactly clean cut when it came to sexual encounters with actresses on his shows. Are we about to find out that Weinstein's actions were not just unreported on because of his high profile status and power but also because similar actions were and are rife across the industry.

 

Isn't that like an open secret to the world already? Similar actions can be found in any industry, but those that commodify the human body, and particularly the female one, like Hollywood and the fashion industry, are known to be utterly horrible.

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