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@SweatyTravolta the Sarah Everard thread doesn't seem the right place to discuss this - I genuinely don't know what you mean by your post about RLM "cultivating a culture of hostility towards women". Mike Stoklasa is a bit of an embarrassment when it comes to any sort of discussion of societal issues, and the Captain Marvel review was painful to watch because he clearly had his feathers ruffled by Brie Larson taking the piss out of 40-year old white male film critics, but I've not seen anything to make me think any of them are misogynists.

 

I accept I may have (sub?)consciously overlooked it because I like their content - what form has it taken?

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13 minutes ago, PK said:

@SweatyTravolta the Sarah Everard thread doesn't seem the right place to discuss this, but - I genuinely don't know what you mean by your post about RLM "cultivating a culture of hostility towards women". Mike Stoklasa is a bit of an embarrassment when it comes to any sort of discussion of societal issues, and the Captain Marvel review was painful to watch because he clearly had his feathers ruffled by Brie Larson taking the piss out of 40-year old white male film critics, but I've not seen anything to make me think any of them are misogynists.

 

I accept I may have (sub?)consciously overlooked it because I like their content - what form has it taken?

 

I did a quick search to see if anyone had done an article on it and found a collection of misogyny and racist incidents collected on ResetEra.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-critique-of-red-letter-media’s-bigoted-content-see-staff-post.129228/

There's obviously the weird Plinkett stuff,  even if a character is making light of awful views which in itself helps to normalise them

https://awfj.org/blog/2010/04/11/awfj-women-on-film-the-week-in-women-april-10-2010-maryann-johanson/


Like I said in the other thread, I don't think everyone who watches their stuff are bad people just because the people making it are bad people. It's just if we're trying to re-assess our cultural attitudes and making women feel safer then perhaps we should stop supporting media that targets them and plays to a certain crowd when they do.

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10 minutes ago, SweatyTravolta said:

 

I did a quick search to see if anyone had done an article on it and found a collection of incidents on ResetEra.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-critique-of-red-letter-media’s-bigoted-content-see-staff-post.129228/

There's obviously the weird Plinkett stuff,  which even if a character is making light of awful views which in itself helps to normalise them

https://awfj.org/blog/2010/04/11/awfj-women-on-film-the-week-in-women-april-10-2010-maryann-johanson/

 

Thanks, I'll have a read through.

 

I find the Plinkett stuff completely unwatchable now, and I'd fully agree the length to which they took the serial killer skits in them was really grim.

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I don't really buy that ResetERA thread, a lot of RLM's critiques have been completely valid - RLM were complaining that Disney was being performative and 'wokewashing' and didn't really give a shit and that was proven absolutely true when Disney started censoring gays for China while shouting out genocidal governments for their support.

 

Their problem with Larson wasn't "calling out white movie reviewers" it was that Agents of Shield had literally just done the same "defender of earth from cosmic threats" as Captain Marvel but with a person of colour, who Marvel then erased - there's literally been jokes about this sort of white feminism stepping to the front of the queue front of minorities and speaking over them (while white women voted a majority for Trump) on milquetoast mainstream comedy shows like SNL, it's not some fringe concept.

 

They even in that same episode shouted out a movie by a trans director they'd recently seen and mentioned how important diversity is for providing different viewpoints in media, in case you really didn't get where they were coming from.

 

So the only way I can see that being misconstrued as bigoted, is if someone is so defensive they take any criticism of woke stuff as being bigoted or by the right, when there are perfectly valid leftist critiques around corporations and other groups co-opting such movements for their own ends (i.e to shill movies to break into China).

 

Given ResetERA is exactly the sort of deranged libs who love performative signalling and hate the left, I can see RLMs critiques of corporate co-opting being as warmly welcomed there as a news post about AoC or Corbyn. I mean, they actually had a thread on there about how if anyone dislikes Disney they're a bigot, which is one of the most aged like milk things I've seen on the internet.

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9 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

I don't really buy that ResetERA thread

 

I mean it has a clip of one of them doing a ching chong chinaman voice and then claiming it isn't racist because that's how they talk but yeah, ResetEra are just performative woke libs. I also say that as someone who hates ResetEra.

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Oh yeah, that's really cringeworthy and I won't defend it, but my points were more about the Captain Marvel episode that was mentioned, I've seen multiple users in here treat it as if it's some awful embarrassment, rather than two people being positive about the impact of diversity, saying there should be more diversity, and saying Disney isn't an ally.

 

Like, even if someone wasn't totally clued in at the time about this stuff and didn't agree with that then, things have changed since to the point where no one can really deny that's the correct takeaway, right?

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What I find embarrassing about the Captain Marvel review is Mike's behaviour in it; he's clearly upset by Bree Larson's comments about "40 year old white male film critics" and I think he even starts the video by saying he thought the film was inoffensive fun "and then I saw the footage of her speech".

 

He's a fucking child in a lot of ways and that video is the peak of it.

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Pretty much any time RLM mention China there's a high probability it's going to be something a bit racist or embarrassingly lacking in self awareness. Their criticism of Disney cosying up the CCP is valid but their hit/miss ratio on anything that actually matters is pretty woeful.

 

They should probably just stick to taking the piss out of Collider and the like.

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One thing my wife and I have noticed as regular RLM viewers is that they'll quite often forget an actor's name if they're female and gloss over it. I'm not sure if it's a subconscious thing (and I think they've been better about it recently) but we started to pick up on it after we went through a randomly selected run of Half in the Bag episodes.

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That ResetEra post is as fucking dumb as the article from a few years back that thought OldManMurray was representative of Chet Faliszek and Erik Wolpaw's real world views.

 

Mike's bee in his bonnet about 'fake outrage' being used to promote films (which still sometimes gets an airing) is pretty cringey. But I don't think RLM's output now is anywhere near as reliant on lazy edgelord humour. In the last 2-3 years it feels like they've made a conscious effort to do things a bit more professionally as their audience has broadened.

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1 hour ago, MK-1601 said:

That ResetEra post is as fucking dumb as the article from a few years back that thought OldManMurray was representative of Chet Faliszek and Erik Wolpaw's real world views.

 

Mike's bee in his bonnet about 'fake outrage' being used to promote films (which still sometimes gets an airing) is pretty cringey. But I don't think RLM's output now is anywhere near as reliant on lazy edgelord humour. In the last 2-3 years it feels like they've made a conscious effort to do things a bit more professionally as their audience has broadened.

 

So complaining about a bunch of white chucklefucks sitting around laughing as one of them is performing racist caricatures is "fucking dumb". Right, OK. Good to know where you as a poster stand. 

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Sorry, I didn't get that far in the post, after the several tedious pages of taking "look at the obviously shitty outrageous things we can make the old man character say" literally.

 

Yes, that is shockingly bad, even taking into account the context leading up to it and it being from six years ago. It's not defensible. I don't think they would do that (or the Plinkett serial killer/scatalogical stuff, or Rich Evans shouting AIDS all the time as a punchline) today.

 

They still sometimes cover stuff on BOTW without clocking how it's going to look to have a room of white male nerds laughing at it.

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Not to try and drag anyone into continuing the conversation, but there's a big section near the start of this where they're calling out how sexist the writing of the female characters in the show is by modern standards, despite it being written by someone who was probably quite progressive for the time, replete with calling out people who were shitty to the female actors with clips to it in those actors own words.

 

"Cultivating a culture of hostility towards women", eh? What "a toxic community" we are.

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Yeah, but they also then talk about how they want to slap the expression off a female character's face. And they don't exactly "call out" the sexism, they mention it and then they laugh about it.

 

I'm still trying to work out where I stand on them now. There's a lot of hyperbole and (willful?) misinterpretation in that resetera thread but it has at least made me realise I let a lot a fair bit of racist and sexist stuff in their videos slide with just a roll of my eyes, when I don't think I would do so for other performers or celebrities. I'm not really sure why. I don't think they're necessarily misogynists or racists, but they are at least reminiscent of late 90s/early 2000s comedians who were convinced that they could say racist and sexist things ironically and it wouldn't be offensive.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not seen Event Horizon in forever but remember enjoying it around the time, not sure I fancy a rewatch now. Mike absolutely hated it and tears it apart. Jay was trying to be abit more positive I guess but doubt it holds up well. 

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Yeah I remember enjoying it, but watching that shows I'd largely purged the third-act shift into action schlock from my mind, leaving it a really good two-act film whose first act sci-fi shifts into second act horror.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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