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Gran Turismo Sport | Monday Night Racing Club: every week @ 8PM UK

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5 minutes ago, beenabadbunny said:

I can't really drive anything with a loose rear end*.

 

Have you tried a good long session with TC off? I think if you keep TC on you won't learn to love the oversteer :) Gotta take the stabilisers off!

 

What about cars that oversteer on the brakes? The Gr4 Cayman is like that, it's loose on the brakes then quite planted/a little understeery on the throttle, which is quite fun for sending it into corners and booting it out.

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Yeah I think I need to deliberately choose a car that wants to slide (the MX-5 Roadster is probably perfect for this), turn the TC off and just suck it up.

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7 minutes ago, beenabadbunny said:

I can't really drive anything with a loose rear end*.

 

I think I have an OK understanding of racing lines, and I try to do slow in, fast out. But I seem to either lose time from slowing too much on the way in, or I get on the power too hard/early on the way out. When that happens I with TC off, I light up the rear tyres and spin. If TC is on (as it usually is) then it kicks in and I lose the push out of the corner.

 

I'm (relatively) much better in aero cars. I still don't enjoy understeer but I understand that it's part of the compromise you make if you want a planted rear. I'm getting better at coping with it but again, I think I lose a lot of time on the way into low-speed corners. It might be because, afraid of pushing too hard, I tend to be overcautious and slow down more than I actually need to.

 

I'm happy enough with the fact that I'll never be at the very front but I want to get involved in some of these brilliant midfield battles! :D

 

 

*Oo-er.

 

 

I'd suggest learning to drive the Mazda touring car with no TC. It's forgivable enough as it has some downforce - I am the same, I can't drive loose rear end cars but I am getting better

 

The back end on the Mazda WILL step out if you abuse it but it will teach you the 'rules'. Because of this i can now drive the GR2 with no TC. No way I could do that 3 months ago.

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All good advice I think @beenabadbunny, you just need to practice lots and commit to leaving all assists except abs off. I went through the same thing when I got my wheel, I used to do pirouettes round Brands in gr3 and even 4 and it got me really mad until I got my head round it. 
 Mazda touring car is a good shout then maybe  pick a short track like Tsukuba so you’ve only got a few corners to worry about and you can drill it over and over.

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@beenabadbunny Being a relative newcomer I have similar feelings when we're in a full lobby - surely I should make way for one of the old faces...  so you're not alone - we just need to lobby for bigger lobbies...  or mount a massive recruitment campaign so we have 30-35 regular racers :)

 

After Monday night I spent ages in the X-Bow at Brands Hatch Indy trying to get a handle on its oversteer.  I find with the wheel I can correct small mistakes before they happen but any big oversteer moments usually result in some manic fishtailing followed by a spin ("straight to the scene of the accident" as they say).  I guess this is where the game used to help me out when I was on the pad.  I ended up doing lap after lap at Brands, trying to keep it tidy but not backing out of oversteer when it happened, especially at the exit of Clark Curve onto the pit straight.  In my case, I think I was trying to be too restrained with the opposite lock.  It's like you need to let the front wheels find their natural angle (which is always greater than I expect), but then use some muscle to keep it there to prevent the fishtailing.

 

That's when stuff like this starts to happen :)

 

(I know it's not quick, but it looks cool and feels great!)

 

8359324129228228112_0.thumb.jpg.13ca59f710e1d9388dc46e0c75a1441d.jpg

 

 

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3 hours ago, fretnoise said:

After Monday night I spent ages in the X-Bow at Brands Hatch Indy trying to get a handle on its oversteer.  I find with the wheel I can correct small mistakes before they happen but any big oversteer moments usually result in some manic fishtailing followed by a spin ("straight to the scene of the accident" as they say).  I guess this is where the game used to help me out when I was on the pad.  I ended up doing lap after lap at Brands, trying to keep it tidy but not backing out of oversteer when it happened, especially at the exit of Clark Curve onto the pit straight.  In my case, I think I was trying to be too restrained with the opposite lock.  It's like you need to let the front wheels find their natural angle (which is always greater than I expect), but then use some muscle to keep it there to prevent the fishtailing.

 

That's when stuff like this starts to happen :)

 

(I know it's not quick, but it looks cool and feels great!)

 

I really feel you, handling oversteer and drifting in GT Sport only clicked for me after well over a year of frequent play. I used to run TC on pretty much every RWD car as any attempt at doing otherwise would result in spins sooner or later. It was frustrating, especially as I loved catching the rear end in DiRT Rally.

 

But I remember distinctly, upon returning home after some sim lessons at Rudy van Buren's (lucky to call him a friend), I fired this up and drove a TVR with TC off around Tsukuba. Suddenly, it all felt right and I could use the right input to do this:

 

 

I guess the secret is to really be gentle on your movements. Hard on the throttle, feeding the throttle (don't just stomp on it!) Once you've done it enough, it really becomes second nature :)

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I have another suggestion on top of the above based on a race I did for the first time last night.

 

In the single player campaign, the 911 GT3 endurance race series at Suzuka. Turn off TC.  Suzuka is an incredible circuit, very rewarding, and challenging. The 911 wants to slide all the time, it even pops the back end out on downshifts, but it does it in a lovely and predictable way.  It rides the kerbs ok too, not instantly spinning like some cars.
Suzuka emphasises it with all the weight transfer through the S curves and the hairpin wants to spin you around every lap. The Degner curves make you feel like a driving god when you get it right too.


Watch replays for the top laps on qualifying / time trial and concentrate on copying bits of it. Watch braking points, lines, look for trail braking.  
 

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Race A this week (1995 Porsche 911 at Tsukuba) is brilliant for practising with TC off. That thing goes around if you so much as breathe out while cornering.

 

It's the very definition of "slow is smooth and smooth is fast".

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Actually here's a thing.

 

At times yesterday when the 911 was starting to let go, I found myself instinctively wanting to dip the clutch (but my pedal set doesn't have one).

 

Would that have helped?

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9 minutes ago, beenabadbunny said:

Actually here's a thing.

 

At times yesterday when the 911 was starting to let go, I found myself instinctively wanting to dip the clutch (but my pedal set doesn't have one).

 

Would that have helped?

 

Not really. You could dip the clutch briefly (clutch kick) to actually get the car into a drift, although it's rarely used and I'm not even sure GT Sport supports it well.

 

I think it's more of a reflex from real-life driving, where engaging the clutch is a primary reaction under braking. (And often unnecessary, unless the engine is on the verge of stalling.)

 

You're better off feathering the throttle to keep the drift going and using gradual steering input to get it straight again smoothly.

Or, if you really feel you can't hold it, counter-steer a bit more and slam the brakes - which will cost you time but can help to regain stability.

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Yeah you don't need clutch :) With practice you'll get better at knowing when to lift. You always hope you can just keep the throttle nailed and counter-steer, but often you have to lift at least a bit to get the back-end into line.

 

Ultimately it's about not increasing the throttle until your steering angle is adequately reduced, but it's easier said than done, and when you do over-do it you just have to accept it and lift and lose a bit of time, as the alternative option is spinning :D

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The Aston Martin V12 was great for this at Bathurst, turn 2.  You want to get the power back on as early as possible to carry the momentum up the hill, but too early and the back steps out.  The GTR would spit me backwards into the left hand barrier at that point, whilst with the Aston Martin you can keep the throttle nailed and drift your way up the hill.  Slower, but you arrive at the next corner with a massive grin on your face so it doesn't matter as much :D

 

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Sector 1 of Spa Circuit Experience would be a good place to practice as well I think, bus stop and la source are places you can either gain a lot of time, or pirouette. It's in the 911 RSR too which is oversteery but in the good predictable way

 

I love just repping a small section like that when practicing, esp when it gives you a leaderboard.

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For a change last night, after all that sliding around in the old 911, I thought I'd try one of the Mercedes-AMG F1 races from career mode. Picked the Red Bull Ring because why not.

 

The career events start you at the back, so it's essentially Last-to-First Challenge.

 

I love driving that car in this game. It's so fast, but (without 5G of cornering force to rip your head off) it feels so benign to drive. It's planted, it goes where you point it, it's brilliant.

 

So over the 12-lap AI race, without falling off the circuit once, spinning around at all, or any significant contact apart from the odd wheel-bang, I successfully overtake all the other cars and finish P1.

 

I get a W added to my driver record, a cool quarter million pretend pounds added to the bank, and I feel like some kind of driving superhero.

 

Then I look at the lap times.

 

My fastest lap was a 1:14.

 

Charles Leclerc holds the lap record with a fucking 1:03.

 

I know I'm not a quick driver but honestly.

 

(That 1:03 is a quali lap and the race lap record is a high 1:06, but honestly that doesn't make me feel that much better.)

 

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1 hour ago, beenabadbunny said:

My fastest lap was a 1:14.

 

Charles Leclerc holds the lap record with a fucking 1:03.

 

I know I'm not a quick driver but honestly.

 

(That 1:03 is a quali lap and the race lap record is a high 1:06, but honestly that doesn't make me feel that much better.)

 

The Merc is always down on power there due to the altitude though right? ;)

 

Comparing to my friends list is bad enough, never mind someone who is paid more in a year than I'll earn in a 2 decades / my entire life ;) 

 

 

 

 

On a slightly less slip sliding note, Suzuka Gr.2 qualifying is possibly the most satisfying time trial I've ever done - when you get it right.  

Already beat my Kudos prime target time and my Opt. is not far off 1.5 seconds quicker than my best time :ph34r:

 

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So... I’ve been practicing trail braking and being pretty inconsistent with it. Since I got the wheel I’ve felt there is something not right about the pedal set up, like there is too much travel on the (not adjustable) pedals for me. The ball of my foot having to move too much between 0 and 100% on the pedals.  
Anyway, I’ve been watching review videos of load cell pedals wondering if that’s what I need to get more feel, and noticed a lot of racers raise the pedals.


As my playseat challenge folds up, the pedal section can lift so I thought what can I stick under it to try, to see if that’s the answer.
I looked all over the house for something sturdy even starting to think how I could make something up, then I found the answer, literally 3 foot from my pedals (the triforce lamp in the photo usually sits on) this old ammo box since I was a teen.

 

This might sound ridiculous, but pedals raised and suddenly it feels so much more natural. This is how I want to sit when I’m driving! I feel like I have so much more control of the brake and throttle, I’m amazed!


Now I just need to figure out how to DIY a solution that will stop me from projecting that ammo box through my glass tv stand :lol:
 

 

 

14C40ABB-A72C-472E-A9A6-7643E6B94A55.jpeg

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Maybe driving a vauxhall insignia for 4 years has ruined me? Like sitting on a very slow church pew while stiring a gearbox full of porridge. 

 

I'll stick to the pad for now....

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12 hours ago, Freeman said:

So... I’ve been practicing trail braking and being pretty inconsistent with it. Since I got the wheel I’ve felt there is something not right about the pedal set up, like there is too much travel on the (not adjustable) pedals for me. The ball of my foot having to move too much between 0 and 100% on the pedals.  
Anyway, I’ve been watching review videos of load cell pedals wondering if that’s what I need to get more feel, and noticed a lot of racers raise the pedals.


As my playseat challenge folds up, the pedal section can lift so I thought what can I stick under it to try, to see if that’s the answer.
I looked all over the house for something sturdy even starting to think how I could make something up, then I found the answer, literally 3 foot from my pedals (the triforce lamp in the photo usually sits on) this old ammo box since I was a teen.

 

This might sound ridiculous, but pedals raised and suddenly it feels so much more natural. This is how I want to sit when I’m driving! I feel like I have so much more control of the brake and throttle, I’m amazed!


Now I just need to figure out how to DIY a solution that will stop me from projecting that ammo box through my glass tv stand :lol:
 

 

 

14C40ABB-A72C-472E-A9A6-7643E6B94A55.jpeg

 

Bravo, getting the pedals in the right place for you is utterly essential imo. I now drive barefoot, with my feet resting directly on the pedals - no reaching for them even slightly. I don't need to stamp on them anymore.

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10 minutes ago, mexos said:

 

Bravo, getting the pedals in the right place for you is utterly essential imo. I now drive barefoot, with my feet resting directly on the pedals - no reaching for them even slightly. I don't need to stamp on them anymore.

 

As I was messing about with it, it felt a little silly (not all cars are the same shape etc), but it just feels so much better now.

The CSL Elite pedals have quite a long range of movement, and I felt I had to move my heel a lot, and stretch my ankle / leg more than was comfy.  With them angled up, it effectively reduces the angles and puts it more in sync with the range of familiar pedal movement with my foot, allowing a single fluid movement from 0-100% range.

I guess realistically, they are upside down, but I don't really have the space (or equipment) to invert them! 

 

I tried socks racing, but it wasn't working for me, in part because my games room is quite cold.  I do have shoes for fun driving though and have worn them from the off (Puma speed/drift cats) which help set the scene.

 

Of course I'm now spending way to much time trying to figure out how to modify my set up :D

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1 hour ago, marsh said:

@Junker you gone faster in the 911 yet?

who what where? We racing 911s somewhere?

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Daily race A, 911 with atrocious handling characteristics at a go kart track.

 

 

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Aha yeah the concept of there being anything other than Race C TT has been alien to me the last few days

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The thought of pounding round Suzuka in one of those had no appeal this week, and the other choice was a Peugeot special. I'm not quite that dead inside, yet.

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1 hour ago, marsh said:

The thought of pounding round Suzuka in one of those had no appeal this week, and the other choice was a Peugeot special. I'm not quite that dead inside, yet.

on a controller, yeah for sure. Been a blast on the wheel though, medium tyres! plus trading hundredths of a second with pimp has been interesting.

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On 04/07/2020 at 20:28, marsh said:

@Junker you gone faster in the 911 yet?

Yep. 1:04.595 - Your move...
 

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Last week’s Time trial results taken from daily race qualifying 

Race A Porsche 911 round TsukubaBED78682-0AE7-4524-92C3-F4D1A089DD67.thumb.jpeg.d8639524d35b7550ee965b6beca6e251.jpeg

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Race B was Gr4 round Red Bull Ring, but RCZ has a massive speed advantage so was a bit of a one make cup

64885891-1D35-4438-B674-B22680EA6237.jpeg

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Race C was the pick of the bunch. I just couldn’t get in a groove to go any faster on this combo, some quick times on this leaderboard , amazing turn out

F30A80C4-7CCB-4C80-8CB1-4273B8AEE1C2.jpeg

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Not entirely sure I will make it to tonight's Interlagos Group 3 enduro as I've got a bad back, but if I do then here's my ride :)

 

IMG_3889.thumb.JPG.e9c85782a5f4be7f998ccb81457ecca0.JPG

 

 

 

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