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Watchmen on HBO

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It’s just what I grew up reading and have never had an issue with it. It’s a comic where there’s a real Superman and therefore not a leap imo for Veidt to have access to technology that would allow such a thing to occur. I believe it’s also stolen from an outer limits episode isn’t it something that Alan has claimed to have not been aware of. 
 

And christ no Alan Moore is not infallible at all.
I’ll never read Lost Girls nor do I have any desire too.

 

He’s grumpy as shit a but also one of the best writers the medium of comics has had. 

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On 29/10/2019 at 18:56, DeciderVT said:
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I'm not sure I buy Veidt incinerating his house staff, even if they're clones. In the comic he was a reluctant villain that did what he logically felt he had to do to avert war- murdering someone in cold blood seems like moustache-twirling villainy that'd be beneath him.

 

 

Regarding Jeremy Iron's house staff

 

 


I didn't assume they were clones, I thought they were more androids... things that have had memories and intelligence downloaded into them (and fucked up) hence the horseshoe for cutting the cake and speeding up their singing of "For he's a jolly good fellow". They were told to hurry it up, and they finish their command at double time.. not to mention referring to Jezza Irons as "master".
 

 

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1 hour ago, idiwa said:

 

Regarding Jeremy Iron's house staff

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I didn't assume they were clones, I thought they were more androids... things that have had memories and intelligence downloaded into them (and fucked up) hence the horseshoe for cutting the cake and speeding up their singing of "For he's a jolly good fellow". They were told to hurry it up, and they finish their command at double time.. not to mention referring to Jezza Irons as "master".
 

 

 

Spoiler

I hadn't considered that, given that the corpse seemed horrific. I suppose it makes sense when he says that there are a "great number of things I wish would occur to you", though I mistook this for intellectual arrogance.

 

On another note, I wish they'd stuck with the UK version of that birthday song. "Which nobody can deny" sounds so jarring coming out of their mouths!

 

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Just in case people have forgotten/never noticed, Veidt is a tech billionaire who has mastered teleportation and cloning technology, and devised a way to implant or encode imagery into a living mind.

 

He’s also dumb enough to use an easy to deduce, non-complex password on his PC. He may be the smartest man on the planet but he’s not infallible, far from it.

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On the squid thing, it works in the comic because it's the kind of insane, out-of-context problem that would be enough to shock two superpowers out of the critical phase of nuclear brinkmanship. But it takes a lot of setting up in the comic too, and the way the film streamlined it was pretty neat, I thought, even though there are a few logical holes in that version. I think I prefer the squid, but I know a few people who got turned off by the inherent ridiculousness of it, so it's not perfect.

 

Thing is, the actual mechanism of Veidt's plan is kind of irrelevant. The important thing that his plan is to commit one of the worst atrocities in history to prevent an even worse one, and that the heroes fail to stop him. By the time they get to him, he's already done it, thirty five minutes ago. Whether he does it through a giant squid or through faking an attack by Dr Manhattan doesn't really matter, which is why both versions work for me. The main thing is Dan's face when he realises what's happened, the insane M.A.D. logic of Veidt's war-crime, and the aftermath with Veidt trying to justify it to Dr Manhattan and himself.

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3 hours ago, cassidy said:

It’s just what I grew up reading and have never had an issue with it. It’s a comic where there’s a real Superman and therefore not a leap imo for Veidt to have access to technology that would allow such a thing to occur. I believe it’s also stolen from an outer limits episode isn’t it something that Alan has claimed to have not been aware of. 

 

Unlikely, I'd say - that episode of the Outer Limits is explicitly referred to in the dialogue. IIRC, it's on the TV in the background when Dan and Laurie visit Sally Jupiter at the end of the story, so Moore was acknowledging where he got the idea from.

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On 02/11/2019 at 20:38, sandman said:

When Watchmen came out (and I was there for it) it was just seen as an incredible comic book for adults. This whole “deconstruction” thing has only been used in the last few years 


I don’t know about that. Even at the time of  its release Watchman was a commentary on super-heroes and humanity. 

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I think both Moore and Gibbons described it as a comic about comics. It works as a story in its own right, because when I first read it I didn't know enough about comics to interpret it any other way, but it's explicitly supposed to showcase storytelling techniques only comics can do, and to do things other comics don't

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I've got no problem at all with someone else making a sequel to Watchmen, but man alive, check out the fan-fiction shit in this summary of the plot of issue 3 of Doomsday Clock (the official comic sequel):

 

Quote

In a flashback, it is revealed that Manhattan intervened in Veidt's murder of the Comedian and transported the latter to Metropolis. In the present, Veidt has a brief fight with the Comedian, and is badly injured while escaping. Meanwhile, Rorschach tries to convince Batman to help locate Manhattan by presenting him with Kovacs' journal. Batman tells Rorschach to make himself at home while he reads. In a retirement home, the elderly Johnny Thunder stares out the window during a thunderstorm while waiting for his family to take him out to dinner, but they never arrive. Elsewhere, Marionette and Mime explore Gotham and stumble into a bar in the Joker's territory, killing several of his men. After drinking a toast to finding their son, they decide to go in search of Joker. Rorschach has a nightmare of Veidt's monster attacking New York. When he awakens, Batman tells him that he has tracked a temporal anomaly to Arkham Asylum. However, Rorschach discovers that Batman has tricked him when he is locked up in Arkham, being told by Batman that he belongs there.

 

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3 hours ago, The Hierophant said:


I don’t know about that. Even at the time of  its release Watchman was a commentary on super-heroes and humanity. 

 

Yep, there's a usenet thread about it from the time it was released.

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9 minutes ago, K said:

I've got no problem at all with someone else making a sequel to Watchmen, but man alive, check out the fan-fiction shit in this summary of the plot of Doomsday Clock (the official comic sequel):

 

 

 

Oh Jesus Christ what is that?

 

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Doomsday Clock sucks Big Blue Dicks. Beyond the bad writing it was meant to be this big tentpole thing that would affect lots of other DC comics but they are so inept that it's taken them 2 years to get 11 issues out the door.

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When Laurie opened the case near the start of the episode and I saw the blue glow on her face, I honestly did wonder if it was a Dr Manhattan dildo, then to see my suspicions confirmed so gloriously was highly gratifying, though it does make me wonder about why my mind would immediately jump to big blue thundercock.

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If people disagree with my posts please reply and have a discussion neg without context is fucking worthless. 

 

Did I just flat out neg those opinions that were different to mine. Nope. 

 

Feel free to neg this btw :wub:

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On 03/11/2019 at 15:49, cassidy said:

@K  ah right I wasn’t sure of the acknowledgment but that’s stirring a memory. 

 

Having read Wikipedia, it seems we were both right, as Moore wasn't aware of the similarities until the comic was nearly completed, so put the reference in to acknowledge that.

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3 minutes ago, K said:

 

Having read Wikipedia, it seems we were both right, as Moore wasn't aware of the similarities until the comic was nearly completed, so put the reference in to acknowledge that.

@K well that's good of you to come back and confirm.  

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12 hours ago, Mr Combo Breaker said:
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Big Blue Dildo

Loooooool

 

 

Wondered if we were gonna find out what was in the case. 

 

Another cracker I thought even though the pace slowed down somewhat. Jean Smart is superb. 

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On 02/11/2019 at 20:38, sandman said:

When Watchmen came out (and I was there for it) it was just seen as an incredible comic book for adults. This whole “deconstruction” thing has only been used in the last few years 


Watchman, Miracleman and Swamp Thing were all Moore’s deconstruction of the stale super-hero genre. Miracleman’s entire premise is tearing down and examining what it is to be a superhero, likewise Swamp Thing, and Watchmen was the nadir of his superhero analysis. There may be a resurgence in this, but deconstructing the superhero genre was the backbone of the best comics of the late 80’s. 

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1 hour ago, cassidy said:

Wondered if we were gonna find out what was in the case. 

 

Another cracker I thought even though the pace slowed down somewhat. Jean Smart is superb. 

 

Yes, this was excellent again. I kind of like the slow pace, it lets the World breath and they've put so much effort into it's creation. I do wish there was a little more plot though. 

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Quite a bit this week I thought. 

Ep3 spoilers 

Spoiler

Confirmation it's Veidt

He ain't on Earth 

He's trying to escape 

Laurie is amazing 

She still has a thing for Capes 

Keene Jr can't be trusted at all 

God takes calls from his worshipers 

He listens as well

Masked cops are bad hmmkay 

Don't take Looking glass's remote 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, cassidy said:

Quite a bit this week I thought. 

Ep3 spoilers 

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Confirmation it's Veidt

He ain't on Earth 

 

 

 

Spoiler


I must have missed that bit. Where was it confirmed that he's not on Earth? 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Silent Runner said:
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I must have missed that bit. Where was it confirmed that he's not on Earth? 

 

 

Spoiler

It wasn't confirmed. But he's built a spacesuit and another clone has obviously encountered extreme temperature and froze to death to the point he was cracking and breaking into pieces. 

 

If that's not a vacuum death then what is? 

 

Here's another thing we get no idea of the passing of time in these scenes but it's gone from one candle to 3 candles on the cake. I think that's years passing. 

 

Where could Veidt have disappeared too? 

 

 

 

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