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Football Thread 2017/18

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Knockaert's sending off today is one of the maddest challenges I've seen in a long time. The circumstances make it even more bizarre. If you haven't seen it, Baines tried to cross the ball, but it hit Knockaert in the face. Knockaert then seconds later for some reason took revenge on Baines with a two-footed knee-high late tackle. Revenge for accidentally hitting a cross at him!  :lol:

 

It's the kind of thing you might see from one or two of the more particularly mental 5-a-side teams I've played for, but from a professional? Amazing.

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Glad we didn't get the Stadium back then and even more so now. Brady is a cunt and always has been, she has no place in football.

 

I'm not an Iron appreciator, but fuck me, you lot don't need all that shit going on at the club. 

 

The board need to go (as do Arsenals and Newcastles for that matter).  Its the only way to get reform and move on to better (potential) times.

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Joe Hart is suffering an even bigger backlash now in recent years as even when he was at City for years he was never actually as good as the media would make him out to be, stuff bouncing off him into the path of attackers isn't a new thing, but a combo of media love-in and his own cocksure 'come on lads' persona made him very dislikable.

 

Not seen enough of Burnley to know is Pope actually that good, or does he just play for a team who sit back a lot and thus he has more saves to make.

 

 

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Butland and Pickford would be my first two picks as England keeper. Pickford is a slight worry as there are serious flaws in his game, but he's a superb shot-stopper. Heaton would have been my third keeper, but he's lost his place in the Burnley team after getting injured. I'm not convinced by Pope, but that might be down to not paying him much attention. He seems fairly solid, but nothing special. I'd put Forster ahead of him, and possibly Ben Foster as well. Oddly enough, I think Ashley Barnes has an outside chance of making the squad just as a dirty bastard to throw on as a plan B.

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Hart shouldn’t be anywhere near the squad, he’s barely Championship level, nevermind international. 

 

If Butland was fit and had a full season behind him he would surely be the pick for England. As it stands, Pope has been the best English goalie this year so should be first pick. 

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16 hours ago, the_debaser said:

West Ham fans have been a disgrace for a while now. They need to root these hooligans out of the club. 

 

I don’t disagree that they have some scummy fans but come on. What happened yesterday was about protest, not hooliganism.

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Also Butland is shit - ok, not shit -- overrated. Really looking forward to Arsenal replacing Cech with that dickhead in the summer. Pickford is miles better but all the English keepers are overhyped really.

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Not buying any excuses for West Ham fans' behaviour yesterday, I'm sorry. There are ways to protest (Hull did the other week against Sheffield Utd during the match for example) and they absolutely should be protesting.

 

But that kind of nonsense with kids in the stadium? Parents were taking their children home early as the atmosphere was so bad. Burnley allowed some of their young fans onto the bench to escape the stands.

 

That's just hooliganism, nothing else. And there's no place for it in football. When you make the atmosphere so bad that kids and their parents don't feel safe, you've crossed the line. Shameful.

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I like you Booth but you aren't half talking some shit. You do realise the reason some kids got caught up is because there isn't a designated family area in the LS, despite there having to be.

 

When you ignore the sentiment of the fans, for year after year and curtail every avenue of discourse (not to mention the repeat belittling and antagonism on twitter by David Gold) there comes a point when enough is enough. They confiscate any banners (even at away games they instruct the home team stewards to remove them) they sabotage peaceful protest, they lie, they cheat and they steal. Birmingham fans didn't get them to sell up by being nice (funny that debs forgets this but we all know he's jsut being the contrarian) Blackpool have had to resort to pitch invasions (proper pitch invasions involving hundreds, not 4 (FOUR!) people going on the pitch) Dortmund with their tennis balls (they'd be confiscated before entry at the LS). 

It makes me laugh when people in the media like Jeff Stelling (and even ashamedly some WH fans) point out the guy who picked up the corner flag could have used it as a weapon. FFS, he paying homage to what happened in the 91/92 season when we had protests and pitch invasions against the board over the Bond scheme (which worked, it was dropped) when a fan picked up the corner flag and put it in the centre circle.

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2 hours ago, the_debaser said:

Hart shouldn’t be anywhere near the squad, he’s barely Championship level, nevermind international. 

 

If Butland was fit and had a full season behind him he would surely be the pick for England. As it stands, Pope has been the best English goalie this year so should be first pick. 

I haven’t watched a lot of Prem football but from what I have seen, Butland is absolutely #1 closely followed by Pickford. If Hart goes based on “past experience”, the cycle Southgate is trying to break will just repeat over again. We have a clown of a keeper in Darren Randolph (ROI - former West Ham) and I don’t think Hart would even unsurp him from between our sticks. 

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Joe Hart will be in the squad even if he isn't the number 1. I thought Fraser Forster might take over but he hasn't had a very good season either.

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3 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

Butland and Pickford would be my first two picks as England keeper. Pickford is a slight worry as there are serious flaws in his game, but he's a superb shot-stopper. Heaton would have been my third keeper, but he's lost his place in the Burnley team after getting injured. I'm not convinced by Pope, but that might be down to not paying him much attention. He seems fairly solid, but nothing special. I'd put Forster ahead of him, and possibly Ben Foster as well. Oddly enough, I think Ashley Barnes has an outside chance of making the squad just as a dirty bastard to throw on as a plan B.

Foster!?! good lord no!

he is statistically, one of the the worst keepers!

now,i know this is a bit old now, but still, scroll down a bit and you will see the XG screen. pope is better than picford, stats wise, as he has pprevented quite a few more than would be expected. Pcikford has done what is expected. and foster.,..is at the bottom.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11212584/david-de-gea-premier-leagues-top-performing-goalkeeper-stats-reveal

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The xG thing isnt bullshit - it is mostly a measure of luck/variance.

 

Last season De Gea / Man U had an xGA of +2.6 and Lloris / Tottenham had an xGA of +7.8.

This season De Gea / Man U have an xGA of +12 and Lloris / Tottenham have an xGA of -1.22.

 

This gives an indication of the amount of variance in the numbers.

 

Basically it tells you that this season Man U should have conceded a lot more goals and Tottenham probably should have conceded less.

 

It is pretty stupid to take one seasons numbers and try to conclude how good a player is from it. De Gea is clearly a phenomenal goalkeeper but you cant really deduce that from this seasons xG numbers alone. 

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Looks like he's done his ankle ligaments again.

 

I don't know if anyone else watched MOTD2 today but there was a bit about Southgate saying to Mourinho that he's taking Rashford to Russia even if he's not playing. Sad to see yet another manager taking players that may be out of form because you just know from this perspective that Joe Hart is going to be no1 no matter what happens.

 

I wonder if he will have the balls to call up the two Burnley centre backs and Pope for the two upcoming friendlies? Cahill and Stones shouldn't be an option.

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I'll be surprised if Hart is no1. Sort of feels like Del Bosque continuing with Casillas in 2014 as respect to what the keeper had achieved with the national team with the previous 3 consecutive tournament wins, when De Gea was the clear choice to take over...like that except without the tournament success, deserved respect and it being less clear what keeper takes Hart's place, although it being madness not to replace him.

 

Don't see why Rashford shouldn't go, he's not fazed by the big stage, and typically, as with England and United changes a game with his pace and directness. He's still so young so i'm not sure 'form' matters because he's not going to be consistent anyway. At least Rashford will be fit and ready, unlike so many names picked that weren't.

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8 hours ago, Scruff said:

I like you Booth but you aren't half talking some shit. You do realise the reason some kids got caught up is because there isn't a designated family area in the LS, despite there having to be.

 

So... if there was a family stand (which of course there should be) then it would be okay other parts of the stadium, or most of it, to be a place where women and children (and, let's be honest, a lot of men) do not feel safe? It should be unacceptable anywhere in the ground really.

 

I do agree that what happened yesterday doesn't represent the worst of West Ham's support though - those are probably the ones that sat down with Karen Brady and threatened the supporters who were planning to march / protest. But I'm sure you can understand that from the perspective of a neutral observer, it's pretty hard to tell the difference really. They do need to take the high road if they want the rest of football to be sympathetic to their cause. It shouldn't really be that difficult to avoid people getting you confused with hooligans and fascists.

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1 minute ago, Liamness said:

 

So... if there was a family stand (which of course there should be) then it would be okay other parts of the stadium, or most of it, to be a place where women and children (and, let's be honest, a lot of men) do not feel safe? It should be unacceptable anywhere in the ground really.

 

 

Of course not and you're being very disingenuous saying that. The only anger that was on show yesterday (other than a few fans taking exception to the 4 that went on the pitch) was directed toward the board. No Burnley fans were in danger, no West Ham fans were in danger and the players weren't in danger ( a lot worse happened when Wigan fans stormed the pitch after they beat Man City but hey, that's allowed because they were happy, just ask Aguero :rolleyes: ).

 

The irony is, that due to the stadium design and the utter lack of foresight is that the fans were able to congregate in such large numbers under the executive boxes. Wouldn't happen in a normal football stadium (also the reason, despite the rules that there aren't family areas) and was the reason families were displaced as the fans were able to walk through the stands and straight up to the boxes. The penny pinching of the board bites them on the arse again. 

 

It's funny. Since last season when we moved in one of the biggest issues the fans have had is that the stewarding is appalling and someone is going to get hurt. They've (the owners) fobbed it off saying it's not in their remit to fix as E20 and the LLDC are in charge of that and lo and behold, what happens; fans on the pitch, no one stopping several hundred fans protesting under the boards noses and video on social media of a steward fast asleep during the game when he was supposed to be keeping an eye out. I wonder if now the gilded few have been exposed to the situation, something may be done.

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17 hours ago, SimonG said:

Glad we didn't get the Stadium back then and even more so now.

Don’t forget, Tottenham’s plan, had their bid won, was to demolish that stadium and build a new one on the site. They realised it wasn’t an ideal stadium for football. We would likely have ended up with what we’re getting next season, just in a different area. Having said that, I’m delighted they stayed in Tottenham more on less on the same site.

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27 minutes ago, Scruff said:

Of course not and you're being very disingenuous saying that. The only anger that was on show yesterday (other than a few fans taking exception to the 4 that went on the pitch) was directed toward the board. No Burnley fans were in danger, no West Ham fans were in danger and the players weren't in danger ( a lot worse happened when Wigan fans stormed the pitch after they beat Man City but hey, that's allowed because they were happy, just ask Aguero :rolleyes: ).

 

There were West Ham fans fighting among themselves though, were there not? This is why the Burnley players let the kids sit on the bench with them. It feels like there are reports along these lines every other home game. If the only anger is that being directed at the board, they why are there fans of the same team scrapping amongst themselves, and why is it happening repeatedly? At some point you cannot just blame the environment.

 

Referring to what happened at Wigan is just pure whataboutism - doesn't make what's happening in Stratford somehow okay.

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So if there are fans there who aren't au fait with the history of previous invasions, don't understand the segregation issues and lack of family facilities, it's their fault for feeling uncomfortable in such an atmosphere because of ignorance?

 

I have lots of sympathy for West Ham fans having those crooks for owners, I really do (and I also agree that the Wigan pitch invasion was disgraceful) but what happened yesterday was unacceptable and crosses the boundaries IMO.

 

Nevertheless, I hope Brady and the pornodwarves fuck off out of football ASAP. They're a stain on the game. 

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1 hour ago, Liamness said:

 

There were West Ham fans fighting among themselves though, were there not? This is why the Burnley players let the kids sit on the bench with them. It feels like there are reports along these lines every other home game. If the only anger is that being directed at the board, they why are there fans of the same team scrapping amongst themselves, and why is it happening repeatedly? At some point you cannot just blame the environment.

 

Referring to what happened at Wigan is just pure whataboutism - doesn't make what's happening in Stratford somehow okay.

 

If you read my reply, I did put the qualifier that the only West Ham fans to get anger directed at them were the ones that did the invasion. As to why, maybe some other fans thought it was a ridiculous thing to do and something that would only inflame tensions and hinder the team and gave them a slap when they ran back into the stands. Maybe it was the ICF who *allegedly* on the instructions of the board *allegedly* were told that no sort of protest would be allowed to go ahead.

 

As for repeatedly, I know a lot of fans of other clubs go to the LS quite often, sometimes in replica kits and happily sit in the home ends (even when it's not their team playing). I can imagine it causes umbrage at any ground it happens in. I know one of the issues fans group were bringing up in relation to the stewards was one in particular was filmed repeatedly stewarding West Ham home games in a Charlton top under his vis-vest.

 

You have to understand as well, that there are West Ham fans that believe all the shit GSB peddle. That we'd have gone under with 100mil debts if it wasn't for them and that they're real fans. It's all balls, we still have 80mill debts, just to them instead and not the bank, plus we don't even have our own home now. I'm tired of saying it but the truth isn't hard to find if you actually want to have a look at why this is all coming to a head now.

 

The Wigan comment is not whataboutism at all. The media are making out it was some sort of rampage, that lives were at risk; using words like riot and anarchy. It was a few hundred fans that were protesting exclusively at the board and four pitch invaders. It's double standards of the highest order to let off Wigan for a proper pitch invasion under the guise of exuberance and then condemn yesterday as a "riot"*

 

@Boothjan no, I'm not blaming any fans for feeling upset yesterday. Pretty much every home game is a toxic atmosphere that the powers that be have done nothing to negate and it has only been getting worse and worse. For those that were upset and caught in it, it was simply a case of wrong game at the wrong time. None of it was planned (there is a very strong argument it happened in fact due to the planned protest being abandoned for reasons I've stated several times) and it was simply something that was going to explode sooner or later. It's no comfort to those that got swept up when they didn't want to but you have to understand that a lot of people (families included) who were there said it was the best thing that could have happened, that they feel invigorated by it and how great it was too actually see some passion and not roiling apathy from the fans. It was like lancing a boil. We can now hope that now the media have been awakened to it ( lots and lots of good articles out there and quite a few journos and pundits being spot on with their analysis') and the fans have actually vented, that wheels have been set in motion to get it all resolved.

 

 

*I know you haven't said that, I'm quoting the media.  

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Possed you for that post, @Scruff - not because I agree with you but because I can sort of now understand WHY it happened. And I do appreciate the desperation felt when the life is being sucked out of a football club. It's still wrong IMO - I can't agree with that sort of behaviour for the simple fact that it makes an atmosphere which isn't suitable for certain cross sections of support. 

 

I genuinely hope you can be rid of those owners but there are ways and means. 

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He's always been a cunt but that's just bizarre. Especially considering he must have been able to see a) the guy's daughter sitting there and b) the camera filming it. I'm sure the 'gentle ribbing' was not quite as innocent as the video shows but there's still no excuse for that. Hope he gets the boot from sky, not that I give them any money anyway.

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