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Motorspot chat - No dull F1 though


Sidewaysbob
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I watched this with my ex-wife who has no interest in motorsport and her comment was "you can tell this is the first job in television for a lot of these people".

 

The coverage reminded me of early nineties videogame tv programmes where the program makers seemingly assumed that the audience had zero knowledge or prior interest in the subject material and so felt the need to exaggerate the sci-fi/action of it all. For example, they didn't cut to the 'pit-wall' but rather the "command-centre" which was a bunch of people stood in front of laptops in a semicircle, I assume to further imply the intense competition between the teams, which was again reminiscent of 90s videogame shows.

 

But format bashing aside, I do like the premise and think this is an another important step for motorport (the developing of electric vehicles part, not the legitimising brutal and oppressive regimes part).

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I think the main issue was that actually the majority of it was quite dull. The cars looked cool in the desert but there's only so long you can watch cars go round with almost no information about what's actually going on.. and then when you do get information everyone's 30 seconds apart from each other. Why did we only get to see time differences on the second stint of each run for the whole of qualifying? And the format was painfully bad :facepalm: Having a race called the Crazy Race (*shudder*) which turned out to be... exactly the same as the other races! I thought commentary kind of did their best in the end with what seemed like something that didn't achieve much as a marketing/awareness stunt, or as a sporting spectacle.

 

That said I'll probably keep an eye on the next one :) I definitely agree that despite all its flaws it might have been an important step for the sport.. and if there's less dust next time who knows we might get to see some racing.

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On 05/04/2021 at 10:58, LowCostMonkey said:

I watched this with my ex-wife who has no interest in motorsport and her comment was "you can tell this is the first job in television for a lot of these people".

 

The coverage reminded me of early nineties videogame tv programmes where the program makers seemingly assumed that the audience had zero knowledge or prior interest in the subject material and so felt the need to exaggerate the sci-fi/action of it all. For example, they didn't cut to the 'pit-wall' but rather the "command-centre" which was a bunch of people stood in front of laptops in a semicircle, I assume to further imply the intense competition between the teams, which was again reminiscent of 90s videogame shows.

 

But format bashing aside, I do like the premise and think this is an another important step for motorport (the developing of electric vehicles part, not the legitimising brutal and oppressive regimes part).

 

The sad thing is it isn't. 2 of the commentators have been in motorsport TV for at least a decade and still didn't bother learning what happens to the car that finished 3rd in the semi final.

 

The command centre was pretty mad.  Let's keep them in masks but pack all 3 teams into a shed.

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6 hours ago, Dudley said:

 

The sad thing is it isn't. 2 of the commentators have been in motorsport TV for at least a decade and still didn't bother learning what happens to the car that finished 3rd in the semi final.

 

The command centre was pretty mad.  Let's keep them in masks but pack all 3 teams into a shed.

They should have left the sides off and said it was a gazebo so "still technically outside"

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21 hours ago, Corranga said:

Formula E Rome starting now on...

BBC2

Quest

Eurosport 2

 

FE has gone from impossible to watch to on all the channels!

And yet still manages to be impossible to watch.

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5 hours ago, GwiDan said:

And yet still manages to be impossible to watch.


It’s a strange one.  The tracks basically breed accidents and dodgy overtaking is the norm. Penalties are applied almost at random and the commentary team almost to quiet when anything controversial happens. I’m sure there is a future in formula e, and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t find it entertaining, but it’s single seater bumper cars. The fact they all seem to rate Sam Bird as one of the best, which is simply because he will stick the car somewhere that others have to dodge him says a lot, see also Di Grassi.

 

Still, filled the F1 gap nicely since BTCC and Indycar haven’t started yet.

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I think the next thing they need to fix is the tracks certainly. They don't need to be on F1 tracks, they can be cities but I saw the track guide from Rome and there's Dario standing in what appears to be the alley behind a restaurant saying "And this is the best overtaking chance".

 

That might be exactly where the inevitable happened in race 1 (not watched 2 yet) now I think back.

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Just caught up on the Formula E race from Valencia. Has to be possibly the stupidest race I’ve ever seen and I generally like FE. They started behind a safety car, there are then 5 possibly 6 safety cars during the 45 min race and after the final one with 2 laps remaining they reduce the energy so that less than half the field manage to finish. Absolute farce.

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I accidentally started to watch it then seen that it was on a proper circuit and then noticed the circuit had been bastardised with weird chicanes in the middle of the straight. 

 

It's almost there if they can get it round a full, even an indy circuit I think it would work. 

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I don’t understand why they reduce their available power when there’s a safety car, surely you want them racing full pelt until the end? As for the chicanes on the straights they ruined the Mexico circuit in the same way.

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On 24/04/2021 at 19:59, ryodi said:

 

I don’t understand why they reduce their available power when there’s a safety car, surely you want them racing full pelt until the end? As for the chicanes on the straights they ruined the Mexico circuit in the same way.

 

Would be unfair on those that actually managed their energy properly the rest of the race. They only reduce it by the amount you saved by being behind SC. It's only like tyres or fuel in a normal race, just those can't be changed from the pits.

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The way to solve this problem is for formula e to become raced under a rallycross format. Five or Ten laps, flat out, eliminators till you get to a final shootout. It's trying so desperately to be something that basically it cannot be that it should just be something else. Rallycross was going along quite nicely until I went and watched it/the FIA fucked with the spec regs. Formula E could do quite well under a different format.

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That's not what F E is for, it's an efficiency series, it's not there to be raced flat out and it's not what the manufacturers are there to develop.

 

This was exactly it working as designed.  If they didn't take energy from them under an S C most races would be flat out and they'd learn nothing.

 

Also there is electric rallycross already.

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Just now, Dudley said:

Also there is electric rallycross already.

 

Well, the debale around that is that we hardly have any rallycross, as they desperately try to figure out what they should be doing.

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No it's about going very quickly efficiently. If there was enough power for them all to go flat out you'd have no development.

 

The point is to develop engines that can do 100 miles at 200kw, then 110 miles at 240, then 120 miles at 260 all with the same battery.

 

And you achieve that by giving them not enough battery to do that, with current tech.

 

Really F E is the only series that's really concerned with proper technical development now with F1 so highly regulated and LeMans essentially spec at this point.

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On 27/04/2021 at 12:51, marsh said:

Just to clarify, formula E is about going as slowly as quickly as you can get away with?

 

:blink:

 

To some extent, so is F1 (or any other non-refuelling series). They don't start the race with enough fuel to do the whole race at quali pace either, so there's always active energy management going on there too - it's just less obvious. Certainly I can't remember a DNF due to insufficient fuel in the present era, maybe the whole last decade. 

 

21 hours ago, Dudley said:

No it's about going very quickly efficiently. If there was enough power for them all to go flat out you'd have no development.

 

The point is to develop engines that can do 100 miles at 200kw, then 110 miles at 240, then 120 miles at 260 all with the same battery.

 

And you achieve that by giving them not enough battery to do that, with current tech.

 

Really F E is the only series that's really concerned with proper technical development now with F1 so highly regulated and LeMans essentially spec at this point.

 

...and that's really hidden from the FE viewing audience by two things: 

 

1) even though the teams all make their own powertrain, the gains involved are so marginal that you're really looking at single-digit percentages at most. It's not like a team shows up with a much more efficient powertrain upgrade one week and starts lapping the field.

 

2) All the innovative bits are completely invisible, because the chassis and all bodywork are totally spec. 

 

I thought last Saturday's FE race was farcical as it happened, but the more I think about it since, it was completely fair and it's absolutely the fault of the teams for not paying enough attention. There was no inconsistency in how the regs were applied. 

 

Last Sunday's race was much better. Yes they weren't pushing - on a fast flowing circuit with no real braking zones, those cars would only be able to run hard for about 60% of the race distance, apparently - but it was a good clean tactical race. A bit like cycling, or even NASCAR (I watched the 500 Miles of Talladega later on Sunday evening and the victor took the W with a perfectly-timed move having not led a single lap throughout the whole race).   

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Nice try at positive spin, but compared to LITERALLY any other motorsport, it's just too slow, and the use of an F1 track exacerbates it. In a few years they'll get the cars running at near F1 speeds, then it may be worth watching.

 

Saturday was a total shit sandwich. Why did cars that crossed the finish line get disqualified? For the casual viewer this makes no sense.

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Formula E is one of the most exciting racing series to watch. There's always something going on and there's often more overtakes in one race than an entire season of F1 and I say that as someone who's rather enjoying the current F1 season. I hope they don't change it to appease flat cap wearing old men who want everything to remain the same.

 

 

attempt.gif.b0ac2bc5265037430fe46c64b4aa0a85.gif

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@dino_jr Fair point. Especially as this is the first season as a proper FIA championship, it didn’t do the sport any favours at all.

 

As I think it was @Dudley said upthread, the current cars are not actually slow - they can get to 180mph. They can’t keep it up for long enough but it’ll come.

 

The gen1 cars were legitimately too slow (max 140mph IIRC) so I mean, one thing at a time.

 

I have a complicated relationship with FE. I’m all about electric cars and I love single-seater racing so in effect I want to like it more than I, in fact, do.
 

There’s just too much contact for me. In Rome there were something like eight or ten DNFs from damage, out of the field of 24. Personally I think it’s a function of the circuits just being too small and tight. Like they were designed for the slow gen1 cars and they can’t actually accommodate the faster speed of the gen2.

 

Then you put them on a real racetrack and they literally can’t go the distance, so the solution is those horrendous chicanes which act as choke points (especially in Valencia race 1 - all those safety cars didn’t Just Happen out of nowhere).

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2 hours ago, SweatyTravolta said:

Formula E is one of the most exciting racing series to watch. There's always something going on and there's often more overtakes in one race than an entire season of F1 and I say that as someone who's rather enjoying the current F1 season.

 

And part of it is that efficiency angle. The absolute fastest car over a lap might not be the one that can do that for 45minutes + a lap (Plus F E does have a slightly chaotic qualifying system that sometimes makes it harder for the championship leaders).

 

But it means that unlike F1 they don't spend 2 days sorting the cars into race speed order and then expect overtaking :)

 

2 hours ago, jonathanhoey said:

As I think it was @Dudley said upthread, the current cars are not actually slow - they can get to 180mph. They can’t keep it up for long enough but it’ll come.

 

The gen1 cars were legitimately too slow (max 140mph IIRC) so I mean, one thing at a time.

 

I have a complicated relationship with FE. I’m all about electric cars and I love single-seater racing so in effect I want to like it more than I, in fact, do.
 

There’s just too much contact for me. In Rome there were something like eight or ten DNFs from damage, out of the field of 24. Personally I think it’s a function of the circuits just being too small and tight. Like they were designed for the slow gen1 cars and they can’t actually accommodate the faster speed of the gen2.

 

Then you put them on a real racetrack and they literally can’t go the distance, so the solution is those horrendous chicanes which act as choke points (especially in Valencia race 1 - all those safety cars didn’t Just Happen out of nowhere).

 

Yeah, and part of the other, let's call it problem, with F E is that it's also their experimental testbed for everything else.

 

So people mix up the out there shit like fanboost, attack zones and the "Ejay" (Remember that) with the actual cars and series.

 

That said, a minor defence of fanboost. At most it's going to get you 1 overtake in a series with a lot of overtaking but I actually quite like that it makes fan engagement part of a driver's job in 2021.  Because it kinda should be. So while I don't think I'd choose that as one of the aspects to export elsewhere I don't hate it as much as some.

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4 hours ago, dino_jr said:

Nice try at positive spin, but compared to LITERALLY any other motorsport, it's just too slow, and the use of an F1 track exacerbates it. In a few years they'll get the cars running at near F1 speeds, then it may be worth watching.

 

Saturday was a total shit sandwich. Why did cars that crossed the finish line get disqualified? For the casual viewer this makes no sense.

Part of the appeal of motorsport to me is the noise and spectacle (and I don't just mean drivers not good enough for F1 crashing into each other, we have oval racing from the States for that :P ). Something Formula E lacks. A similar reason as to why electric cars bore me senseless and why I drive a 5 pot with a fruity exhaust. :hat: 

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11 hours ago, Dudley said:

 

And part of it is that efficiency angle. The absolute fastest car over a lap might not be the one that can do that for 45minutes + a lap (Plus F E does have a slightly chaotic qualifying system that sometimes makes it harder for the championship leaders).

 

But it means that unlike F1 they don't spend 2 days sorting the cars into race speed order and then expect overtaking :)

 

 

Yeah, and part of the other, let's call it problem, with F E is that it's also their experimental testbed for everything else.

 

So people mix up the out there shit like fanboost, attack zones and the "Ejay" (Remember that) with the actual cars and series.

 

That said, a minor defence of fanboost. At most it's going to get you 1 overtake in a series with a lot of overtaking but I actually quite like that it makes fan engagement part of a driver's job in 2021.  Because it kinda should be. So while I don't think I'd choose that as one of the aspects to export elsewhere I don't hate it as much as some.

 

I can't believe you left out the ICONIC Formula E podium selfie in your list of weird bullshit!

 

I love the efficiency angle of the racing. In the first Valencia race where everyone got caught out by the safety car, Sam Bird managing to finish a whole lap with 0% in the battery was amazing. I know they flashed up earlier in the race that he was top of the regen leaderboards but still, what an achievement to finish when everyone else around him in the same situation was floundering. 

 

 

10 hours ago, layten said:

Part of the appeal of motorsport to me is the noise and spectacle (and I don't just mean drivers not good enough for F1 crashing into each other, we have oval racing from the States for that :P ). Something Formula E lacks. A similar reason as to why electric cars bore me senseless and why I drive a 5 pot with a fruity exhaust. :hat: 

 

Having been trackside for multiple Formula E races, they're a lot louder than you might expect. I'm not just talking the electric whine but there's an awesome whoosh as they go past, which you can appreciate more as the mechanics of the car are quieter than a petrol job. I know you're being a little sarcastic with your jab about driver quality but it's a completely different series and the skills aren't entirely transferrable. Masa, a highly talented F1 driver, absolutely bombed in Formula E because he joined a series which had veterans who knew how to maximise the efficiency of the cars. To finish a race you need to regen something like 30% of the total power required, you can't just jump over from a traditional series, put your foot to the floor and get on the podium.

For a tech based forum, I find it strange that people are so obsessed with their dino juice cars instead of embracing what is clearly emerging to be better tech. It's proper old men yelling at clouds whilst annoying their neighbours. Can't wait to make the jump in four(ish) years.

I'm looking forward to DTM Electric. I hope they have overcome the issues that was holding back Electric GT, which I was mainly looking forward to attending for a go on the electric karts.

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10 hours ago, layten said:

Part of the appeal of motorsport to me is the noise and spectacle (and I don't just mean drivers not good enough for F1 crashing into each other, we have oval racing from the States for that :P ). Something Formula E lacks. A similar reason as to why electric cars bore me senseless and why I drive a 5 pot with a fruity exhaust. :hat: 

 

The thing is though, while you're not WRONG, you do run the risk of sounding like the guy who says "I prefer the smell of horses, motor racing will never catch on" 100 years ago.

 

And actually, if electric cars and electric racing become ubiquitous it's a lot easier to justify running the old tech stuff too since it's a rounding error overall.

 

5 minutes ago, SweatyTravolta said:

 

I can't believe you left out the ICONIC Formula E podium selfie in your list of weird bullshit!

 

 

That's largely because I rarely to never watch post race anything so I've no idea what that is beyond the name.

 

But I can guess and... no.  But also, I see why they'd try it.

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4 minutes ago, Dudley said:

That's largely because I rarely to never watch post race anything so I've no idea what that is beyond the name.

 

But I can guess and... no.  But also, I see why they'd try it.

 

You're missing out! Watching poor Jake Dennis struggle to find out where he was supposed to be looking as the announcer tries to direct his gaze to the worlds worst positioned, low quality webcam was a thing of "he's behind you" pantomime. I'm glad the spark of amateurish lives on with the series as it becomes more polished. Leave that roughness in there and don't try to emulate the more boring series, fun is good.

Related to that I hate that whatever TV deal they have this season is way worse than last. Not only is it still not on television but you are now required to watch qualifying on iPlayer in the lowest bit rate they can get away with for it to technically count as a broadcast and the youtube channel doesn't upload full race replays anymore. Fuck off BBC, just put this series on Twitch and be done with it.

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