Jump to content
rllmuk
dogsout

The Boxing Thread

Recommended Posts

Didn't hurt him my balls, he was blowing out of his bumhole by round 4!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Combo of pride and negotiating tactic by Wilder, he'll keep claiming this clause will be activated until they offer him enough to step aside, and it'll be done quietly in the background with his team claiming an injury keeping out of an immediate rematch.

 

The other complication is Dillion White, who is WBC no1 challenger and due a match, meaning Fury could be stripped if he doesn't defend against him.

 

Boxing politics never simple, but of course the biggest money fight is Fury v Joshua

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm Whyte I wait till after the AJ/Fury fight (if it happens) because then you can try and negotiate over the other belts too. Plus I reckon it's a bigger payday if you are facing the undisputed champion and not just the WBC one.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stigweard said:

If I'm Whyte I wait till after the AJ/Fury fight (if it happens) because then you can try and negotiate over the other belts too. Plus I reckon it's a bigger payday if you are facing the undisputed champion and not just the WBC one.

The complication there being that the AJ/Fury fight absolutely 100% certainly would have a rematch clause in for both sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Wilder wins the third fight against Fury, does that mean we'll have a fourth and final fight?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they think there's a market for it, yes. There have been a few quadrilogies over the years.  Pacquiao famously fought JMM four times, ending with one of the biggest knockouts in recent history.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ppv’s on last fight were apparently below break even figures, tv has limited demand for the third fight.

 

I still expect Wilder to take some ‘sit aside money’ as not like the public demand there for a 3rd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd take some of that with a pinch of salt, I think it's a way for broadcasters to complain about 'illegal' streams. Arum said the fight did 1.2m buys in the US. That's Canelo vs GGG numbers, it's a big fight and probably the biggest heavyweight fight since Lennox Lewis was active. They had a huge gate too so this fight generated megabucks and Tyson Fury is now a superstar with a huge fan base. They'll do fine no matter what happens next. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to feel old, it's the 35th anniversary of the epic Hagler v Hearns fight.

 

Without doubt its my default answer to the greatest fight ever question, nothing else comes close.

 

Long piece on the Athletic about it

 

Spoiler

I’ve now promoted 655 world-championship fights. Hagler-Hearns was the greatest one of all.

This was a real fight, not a fight with defense, with any jabs. It was nothing other than two guys punching the shit out of each other at the highest level in boxing. I had never seen anything like it.

I was among everyone involved who knew this would not disappoint, and it was easy to make. It came at a time when Sugar Ray Leonard wasn’t fighting because of his eye injury, so it was the biggest fight that could be made in the middleweight division and it would provide both fighters the most money possible. They were both anxious to do it.

I had a long experience in dealing with Hearn’s great trainer, Emanuel Steward, and considered him a great friend. Since I promoted Marvin, I had a great relationship with his co-managers and trainers, Goody and Pat Petronelli. It all came together quite easily.

I didn’t need to ask for a matchmaker’s opinion on this one. We all understood it would be a really great fight because Hagler had beaten Roberto Duran, but he worked very hard doing so by a narrow unanimous decision in late 1983. It was a very even fight until the last couple of rounds when Marvin pulled away.

Tommy had fought Duran right after that and knocked him out cold in the second round. It was an even fight. It was an even bet.

(The Ring Magazine via Getty Images)

What I decided to do for this major fight was something boxing had never done: a barnstorming promotional tour of 24 cities in two weeks. A lot of days, we’d hit two cities. We started in the East, would head West, then came back East because Hearns was from Detroit and Hagler’s home was near Boston.

I was a little worried Marvin would get impatient with all of it — and in some cases he did — but everyone else went crazy for it because the big newspapers were all over it and the biggest one of all in the day, USA Today, had a big picture across the sports section with a map showing all the cities we were going to before we departed. People were calling it the Magical Mystery Tour based on the Beatles’ song.

Tommy loved it because we played cards all the time on his plane. They taught me all the games he learned from the inner-city of Detroit, like Acey/Deucey, and we had Emanuel, the famous Kronk Gym’s assistant trainer Prentiss Byrd and P.R. guy Rich Rose, playing all kinds of poker. The gambling wasn’t for crazy money, so it was terrific because it was just to enjoy ourselves.

Marvin would use the Caesar’s Palace plane, a rare G1 state-of-the-art jet, and we rented a slower plane for Tommy. Every day, I would switch from Tommy’s plane to Marvin’s plane. The deal we had made was when we reached the West, we would switch planes.

But I remember we were at Caesar’s Palace and Pat Petronelli called me and says, “Bob, I don’t know how to tell you this, but Marvin says he’s not switching planes and if he has to switch planes, he’s going back to Boston and the tour will be over.” He meant it. So, I got a hold of Emanuel and he got Tommy involved. I explained what the problem was and how Marvin was out of line, and we agreed we would rent another G1, which was wildly expensive, and that Tommy would go on that plane.

Years later, when I finally had the chance to find out why Marvin was so dug in on keeping that G1, I discovered he and a stewardess had developed a mutual attraction. Did they join “The Mile-High Club?” I don’t know that, but problem-solving is part of my job description.

Tommy had been pissed, anyway, because his slower plane would always land 20 minutes after Marvin’s. The second part of my deal with Hearns was that I wasn’t to be on Hagler’s plane the rest of the tour. I would only be on Tommy’s, only so I could play cards with them! We loved it!

Well, except one time, I got into trouble. The plane was heading to Charlotte, N.C., and we were playing seven-card poker. Look, Tommy played cards the way he fought. He would never fold, never back down, always aggressive. I don’t know what got into me this one hand, but I’ve got absolutely nothing, so I bluffed. Lo and behold, Tommy folds!

I didn’t leave well enough alone. I showed Tommy the cards I was bluffing with, pouring salt in the wound. When we get to Charlotte, he’s so pissed off, he refuses to talk at the press conference. He probably lost only $70 to $80. It wasn’t about the money, it was the principle.

(The Ring Magazine via Getty Images)

From the start of the tour, Marvin, this proud, dominant middleweight champion for five years, was looking for the motivation of building up a dislike for his opponent. So he kept adding that up in his own mind. Remember, no fighter we knew had been around another for this amount of time — day after day, press conference after press conference. And I could see that Tommy, although he didn’t mean to, was getting under Marvin’s skin.

In St. Louis, at Stan Musial’s restaurant, Marvin finally exploded and jumped over a table to try to get at Hearns. I started yelling: “If you guys hit each other, there’s no fight and you’re not getting paid!” Finally, people had to break them up, and from then on, it was just total animosity between them. It was over nothing, really, just that Tommy was getting on Marvin’s nerves.

I didn’t need to hype the quality of the fight. That was a given. I sold it based on the uniqueness of the tour. Prior to that, fighters maybe did news conferences in two cities. There had never been something like this, and the planes were big enough that we’d take select writers on various legs of the tour, so the national coverage and response was tremendous.

Back then, everything was on closed-circuit: theaters, arenas, cinemas. And the fight sold extraordinarily well. Each guy was guaranteed $5 million, and they ended up with about $9 million apiece, which was huge money for 1985.

Leading to the fight, I don’t think Marvin viewed Tommy as the ultimate test to his reign, someone that was going to beat him. He was looking forward to this fight with the idea that he would earn enough money to retire. He was looking at this as his final fight.

Hearns had seen enough of Hagler on the tour, too, and here was his opportunity to establish himself as the best of the “Four Kings.”

That built all the tension that exploded in producing the greatest round of all time. In that first round, these guys went after each other like they were in an alley in the back of a bar, settling beef years in the making. Neither was going to take a step back because of all the animosity. They really had grown to dislike each other at that point, and they had been tested psychologically by each other. The idea was, “Motherfucker, I’m not going to back up to you.”

I remember sitting next to Joan Rivers, who was a big star at the time, because Henry Gluck, the chairman and CEO of Caesars Palace, had invited her. She turned to me after the first round and asked, “Are they all like this?” I laughed. “No. You’re seeing something special.”

Being so close to Hagler, who’s my most loyal fighter ever, and such good friends with Hearns and Emanuel, I sat there in awe. The action was absolutely great. Tommy was looking to nail Marvin with that unbelievable right hand. I mean, you talk about Deontay Wilder’s right hand … Tommy’s right hand put everyone to sleep when he landed it. And Tommy hit Marvin with his best right hand when Marvin wasn’t playing defense in that first round. It was like hitting a bull on the head. The bull is stunned for a second, and then he comes back charging.

That was Marvin in that fight. He got hit with the best punch. It stunned him for a second. And then he was back. Once I saw that I said, “the fight’s over.”

I had great admiration for Tommy. He was one of my favorite fighters, a real warrior who gave 1,000 percent. There’s nothing not to like about Tommy Hearns.

But when you saw Marvin take Hearns’ best punch and respond the way he did before that barrage that sent Tommy crashing back to the canvas in the third round, it spoke to Marvin’s total determination and the total physical courage he had. Marvin might not have been the best boxer in the world, but he was a very tough, tough guy. The best fights for him were the ones he got pressed the most and the ones that became physical because he was just so strong.

(The Ring Magazine via Getty Images)

This one was the greatest of all time. The closest to it was Ali-Frazier III, but that was different because Ali dominated early, Frazier dominated in the middle and Ali won the last few rounds, stopping Frazier after 14. There was some sadness to it ending. Neither guy would ever be the same.

After this fight, Tommy was very complimentary to Marvin, and Marvin was complimentary to Tommy. There was no bitterness. Even though there was still time to consider a rematch, Marvin was going to retire. We talked him into another fight with John “The Beast” Mugabi that he didn’t really train for … Hagler beat him, but he didn’t want to fight anymore. And when Sugar Ray Leonard saw Marvin had lost a lot of his edge, Ray came out of retirement to fight Marvin, when Marvin didn’t really want to do that fight, only to be convinced by the money, so he took it and lost a close fight.

But I know Marvin looked at the Hearns’ fight as the finale to a great career, and he communicated that to me and Pat and Goody afterward: “This is it, fine, I’m done.” He’s a guy who wouldn’t spend a nickel on anything and he had made so much money, for the Duran fight and the Hearns fight. In his mind, he had more than enough to live off. When he made another huge payday for the Leonard fight, that just went into the bank. I bet he’s never spent a nickel of any of that money. He lived off the money he earned from starring in spaghetti westerns in Italy, and from appearances he made in England. They loved him there.

Marvin now has a home in Italy and a summer place in New Hampshire. I spoke to him about a year ago. He’s very difficult to find and you have to go through people to reach him. He’s become more or less a recluse.

I still see Tommy at fights occasionally. I saw an interview on the 30-year anniversary when he said, “I did my best, I put my best effort into that fight.”

They both did. That’s why it’ll be remembered forever.

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great post @Gotters! And for those that haven't seen it, you're in for a treat. Eight minutes of absolute, brutal perfection. And while you're at it, go and buy Four Kings and enjoy one of the greatest sports books ever written about the last gold age of boxing.

 

 

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wow that was amazing thanks. I was unsure who was going to win or when it would end. I was thinking if AJ was in that first round he would have gassed out. Them two are incredible athletes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The four kings was arguably the best rivalry in boxing history. All hall of famers, they all fought each other and I think you can just about make a case for any of them being the best. I'd go Duran myself, his H2H isn't the best but he was a career lightweight who had five years on all of the other guys and he could still hang. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duran might be my favourite ever boxer. And because he was so intense and aggressive, his technical ability is sometimes overlooked, but he had serious ring intelligence and craft. Probably the greatest lightweight of all time and the fact he managed to also be competitive at middleweight is ridiculous.

 

Leonard is probably the most celebrated and he was just amazing to watch. Probably the most talented of them and most diverse and maybe the best at Welter, but Haggler as a middleweight is by far the best ever for me. And I think he beat Leonard! :P

 

This is quite an interesting watch. Leonard taking part in an exhibition match against an amateur who got a bit too competitive triggering Leonard to automatically switch to beast mode.

 

 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leonard got lucky with a couple of the decisions in those bouts. Hagler - Leonard was the first fight I remember watching, I was 8 at the time at watched it with my Dad on TV. Presumably it was just a tape delay from the previous day in America but in the 80s there probably weren't many ways to find out the result unless you watched the evening news. Watching it back a few times as an adult  I think Hagler won the fight vs Leonard. I think Hearns beat Leonard in their rematch too, and I guess results like that are why Tommy is often placed 4th in the ranking of the four kings which can belittle his achievements somewhat as he's definitely an all time great.  

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leonard did the old 'finish the rounds strong' trick against Haggler, and it won over the judges.

 

I absolutely love Tommy Hearns! In some ways he might have been the most entertaining out of the four and I'm pretty sure he was the first boxer to become a four and then five weight world champ, during a time in which they weren't just giving out belts! I might not be remembering this correctly, but I think Angelo Dundee once said something like "If Hearns had balance, he beats them all". Pretty high praise from a man that trained his main rival!

 

Leonard is still in ridiculous shape though. He looks like he could still compete!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first fight between Hearns and Leonard is my favourite of all the Fab 4 battles and possibly my favourite fight of all time. Leonard is getting lit up at range so he changes tactics mid fight and starts forcing the fight inside. Using his insane footwork and hand speed in close to turn the fight on its head. I love watching a naturally smaller fighter figure out the bigger man and starts wrecking him. Floyd vs Corrales is another good example of that.

 

I feel abit sorry for Hearns, as in pretty much any other era he would have dominated the field especially at Welter where he was huge at 6ft2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the crazy thing about the career of Tommy Hearns.   Four weight world champion, went 67-5, the 5th defeat of his career was at cruiserweight in a title fight when he was in his forties, but prime/good Hearns only lost to Leonard, Hagler and Iran Barkley (twice).  He definitely fought too long and by all accounts is skint because he had too many hangers on, but he's an all time great and can take great comfort in that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of Leonard vs Hearns, has anybody been listening to the "Greatest Fights" Podcast that BBC Radio 5 have been putting out?  The first one covered Leonard vs Hearns 1 and it's spellbinding stuff, they've got Ray Leonard in to watch the fight with them and there's something about having him rewatching the fight with them which makes it essential stuff.   Highly recommended.  There are three so far,  Leonard - Hearns 1 with Leonard,  Tyson - Spinks with David Haye (and this fight is 90 seconds long so it covers a lot of the fight weekend too) and Hatton - Tzsyu with Ricky Hatton.   There's and new one tomorrow which I believe is Holyfield - Tyson 1 with Evander Holyfield.  They say there are going to be ten in all and I recommend getting in on them.   

 

I've also just read The Fight by Norman Mailer.  Mailer is one of those late 20th century celebrity American writers like Hunter S Thompson and Lester Bangs and it follows his journey in Zaire when he was embedded with Ali and Foreman ahead of the Rumble in the Jungle.  It's fascinating to read a contemporary account of the fighters and the fight, so much has been written and spoken retrospectively about both men in the 45 years since this bout but just getting a sense of how they were seen at their peak is almost a new angle (for me at least) in how fearsome and domineering and witty Ali was outside the ring and how scary a prospect Foreman was and accounts of a young and relatively unknown Don King  There's a ton of stuff in there which covers how racially charged the times were too, Mailer is a white man in a black world, surrounded by a lot of people whose lives have been defined to a certain extent by the civil rights movement.  Part of me wants to feel thankful at how far we've come in terms of race but the way the last few years have been I'm starting to wonder.  

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is good. Mostly Bunce, Tyson and Andy Lee watching a playback of the 2nd Wilder fight. Also analysis and other appearances.

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've enjoyed the radio ones Bunce has been doing too.  The Leonard - Hearns episode was something else, but this week's episode about Gatti - Ward I was fantastic too.  

 

 

It's a hell of a fight.  Rounds 8, 9 & 10 are incredible.  Round 9 is up there with round 1 of Hagler - Hearns.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Round 9 is some hall of fame shit.

 

Gatti gets wrecked by a body shot which would have KO'd 99% of people but bites down on his gum shield and fires back, then Ward fires back on him. Emanuel Steward who has seen it all, is losing his shit on commentary. One of the greatest moments in boxing history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I've been storing up the 5 Live playback episodes to do them properly. I want to sit down and watch the fight at the same time. Love the Bunce & Costello podcast. By far the best boxing podcast available IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Sky have just put this out.  Remember watching it at the time, Froch had a lot to prove and I think a lot of people felt that he was being served up to to Bute.  He gave the performance of his life and absolutely annihilated Bute. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I respect Froch as a fighter but he seems like an absolute tit of a guy, his constant whinging about Joe Calzaghe even all these years later really does him no favours, Calzaghe is one of if not the greatest fighter this country has ever produced and should be celebrated as such which every other fighter out there seems to agree with except for Froch who has a huge chip on his shoulder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/06/2020 at 14:37, Naysonymous said:

 

 

Sky have just put this out.  Remember watching it at the time, Froch had a lot to prove and I think a lot of people felt that he was being served up to to Bute.  He gave the performance of his life and absolutely annihilated Bute. 

 

I can't believe the ref started a count at the end. Ridiculous. Bute's corner had to enter the ring. Froch's hooks were phenomenal. He threw them like jabs.

 

The beef with Calzaghe, I think is just click bait nonsense as we live in a click bait era.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never regarded Calzaghe as somebody who should be considered an all time great, or even as good as his record would make you think.

 

He was smart, in hand picking the time he fought people that were big names but for the most part fought nobody of note, maybe it was the era and the likes of Benn/Eubank/Watson were still in my mind but he was a Euro level fighter who never went to the states and tested himself against the best.

 

Nice record but not an all time great by a long shot, could have been but we'll never know.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/07/2020 at 07:52, Gotters said:

I never regarded Calzaghe as somebody who should be considered an all time great, or even as good as his record would make you think.

 

He was smart, in hand picking the time he fought people that were big names but for the most part fought nobody of note, maybe it was the era and the likes of Benn/Eubank/Watson were still in my mind but he was a Euro level fighter who never went to the states and tested himself against the best.

 

Nice record but not an all time great by a long shot, could have been but we'll never know.

 

Oh wow, I really disagree, I consider Calzaghe to be an absolute elite level boxer and an all time great. The Jeff Lacy fight is one of he finest displays of boxing I've ever seen. Lacy was a monster and was looked at as a KO machine prior to the Calzaghe fight. The common belief was that Calzaghe was being fed to Lacy. Of course Lacy never recovered from that loss and it's one of the most dominant fights we'll probably ever see at that level. And beating a peak Kessler was a real achievement. Also, don't forget that after he beat Hopkins, Hopkins then went on a really impressive run, which has really put that fight into perspective. And wins over Reid, Woodhall and Eubank put him right up there with the best in my opinion.

 

His win against Roy Jones Jr definitely doesn't count though. A peak Jones beats jus about anyone in any era.

 

On 28/06/2020 at 17:17, Matt Defis said:

I respect Froch as a fighter but he seems like an absolute tit of a guy, his constant whinging about Joe Calzaghe even all these years later really does him no favours, Calzaghe is one of if not the greatest fighter this country has ever produced and should be celebrated as such which every other fighter out there seems to agree with except for Froch who has a huge chip on his shoulder.

 

Yeah, he's a massive twat. And a Flat Earther, Tommy Robinson guy too. Great fighter to watch though.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.