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Xbox Game Pass

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2 minutes ago, metallicfrodo said:

I suppose my point is that, at least from an xbone perspective if you've had live for a while and have an EA sub you have access to probably more games than most people could get through.

 

100% agree here though. Currently I have 112 games installed and 257 available to install. It's crazy.

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The idea is good, the launch lineup isn't.

 

What concerns me is I can see the endgame being paid online and a paid monthly subscription for, essentially, microtransaction-laden F2P titles. I can only see this accelerating the already over-bearing nickel-and-diming of consumers.

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21 minutes ago, Kiwi Cake said:

Weird seeing people get upset at the concept of 100 games for 8 quid because some of them are a bit old.

 

I think this is a great idea.

Weird seeing people declining to pay money for a service they don't won't as getting upset. 

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5 hours ago, Boozy The Clown said:

Stupid idea, if I'm in my nuclear submarine or stationed in Camp Camelhump I can't get online between being a sodgie in the wars.

 

;)

 

Actually many Nuclear Subs have internet access. I have a friend on one and occasionally he pops up online & says hi.

2 hours ago, Halo said:

The idea is good, the launch lineup isn't.

 

 

We don't know the launch line up. The selection there is a small amount for testers. On launch there will be over 100 titles.

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This is a good move in the right direction.  I've more or less stopped buying games on launch day purely due to the backlog I have.  Purchase a few months down the line for most things.  I'll make some exceptions of course but for me this is good.  It'll get better over time just like Amazon and Netflix. Even more excuse to not rush in day one which I think long term for the game industry is a good thing.

 

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I've more or less stopped buying games at launch as the digital versions are inexplicably grotesquely overpriced vs discs but are 50% off 6 months down the line. I can wait. 

So this is a great possibility for me. 

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16 hours ago, Clipper said:

that approach evolved though didn't it. When Netflix started it was purely old stuff - back in 2007/8? And they have been doing their own new stuff since when 3 yrs ish ago?

 

I reckon given time to mature the same will happen here.

 

 

I'm assuming some of that time involved Netflix setting up content creation for the first time. Microsoft already make games.

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1 hour ago, And said:

I've more or less stopped buying games at launch as the digital versions are inexplicably grotesquely overpriced vs discs but are 50% off 6 months down the line. I can wait. 

So this is a great possibility for me. 

 

I'll agree there. In the UK at least, game prices tend to start falling fast within a few weeks of release. Too many games are just fucked on release day too now, I'll wait for a patch or two.

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Expecting this to evolve into a Netflix original content bonanza seems highly optimistic, the primary reasons Netflix want to do it is to stop paying somebody else for their content and provide a reason to subscribe to their service over the competition. Netflix are spending unsustainable amounts on original content in the hope of building up a library of stuff they own outright that people will keep paying a monthly fee to access, they need to reach Hundreds of Millions of paying subscribers to keep up their spending rate as the current amount they spend on original content development is completely unjustifiable with the current subscriber base numbers.

 

It's exactly the same with Amazon, et al. Everybody is in an arms race, started by Netflix, and somebodies are going to be left without a chair when the music stops on this particular latest industry craze.

 

I'd view these game subscription services like EA Access and this as more an additional revenue stream to help monetise back catalogue or generate additional retail sales, rather than something which is designed to replace retail sales, like a Netflix original series does, unless you can get to stupidly high subscriber numbers to pay to do that. They are monetising their investment in BC with this service, so it's doing the same as EA Access in that respect, squeezing some more juice out of their old stuff.

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I think we will eventually see content released to this service as new. Sure not like Netflix or Amazon Originals, but games in the same vein as Rocket League, Disc Jam and the like, where they'll want more people playing so they can sell them hats, rather than that initial sales money on release. 

 

You can see sports games releasing to a service like this, where again they get the numbers on board and then sell them Fantasy Packs or whatever. I actually think we'll see the end of sports releases as new games in a few years. FIFA, Madden, NBA, NHL, etc all releasing as services, where the engine is upgraded and rosters updated on a semi regular basis. With income coming in through sales of Ultimate Team style card packs or the ability to buy 'retro' kits for your favourite team to use online. 

 

For Indie devs too, it could be a good outlet for them to get a game showcased, as the user isn't taking a risk in trying the game, as they get it as part of their subscription and if word of mouth spreads then more and more will be likely to give it a go, knowing they aren't 'paying' to get it as such. 

Now that is me assuming the the devs and publishers earn money based on how much a game is played or downloaded, or some such. But it does open up the possibilities for new ways to deliver new games. 

 

If it does expand, then it may allow bigger online games, to release to the service as betas, early access, whatever with bugs, etc and the user isn't feeling as burned, because they haven't forked out £50-£100 for that game only to find it a bug ridden mess. It may still be that same bug ridden mess, but it can become a bit more excusable and when it does get fixed, it is there for an audience straight away, without the need to try and re-sell it. 

I think I am talking shit... I'll shut up now. 

 

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Exclusive indie games could certainly happen as the budgets for those are comparatively low and the exposure can make it worth giving up retail sales, though I don't think EA would ever go full EA Access for FIFA and their other annual series, they get to both sell a shitload of fullprice retail copies and get people to pony up for FUT microtransactions at present so they already get to have their cake and eat it too.

 

Rocket League was certainly helped by being given away on PS+ before it went elsewhere, gotten so big they even had to do a physical retail release which people still buy now.

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I suppose the problem with that lineup is that if you've been on Xbox live Gold for the past couple of years, you will have a lot of those games already. It seems a bit like the Very Worst of Games with Gold. I can't see it really appealing to most people on this forum - but if you've just bought an Xbox, I can see how it'd be good value.

 

To be honest, I would have thought the lineup would come across better if they hadn't really transparently padded it out with some absolute stinkers. Five games at launch sounds better than 23 games, if those five games are Halo 5, Sunset Overdrive, the Gears of War remaster, Mad Max and Lego Batman. It looks much worse of they're all buried in toss like Perfect Dark Zero, Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising, Dark Void and fucking Halo: Spartan Assault. By all means stick them on the service, but including them in the initial announcement looks like they're just trying to pad out the list.

 

With regard to exclusive stuff, you get quite a few indie games debuting on PS+, so I don't see why Microsoft couldn't do the same on this service.

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This is the free selection for testers though, not what it's going to launch with at all. It was just an opt in for me to try, no payment whatsoever.

 

But yeah, I owned all but three anyway :D

 

Dark Void, Hexic 2 and Sam and Max are the culprits, and I just nabbed those to test from the new subs tab.

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How much do we think a service would have to be priced at which included brand new games?  Could share revenue by the % of your time that you spend on each game.

 

I'm not expecting something like this to happen soon, just wondering what the cost might be versus what people would pay.  Maybe £20-40 per month?.  I think more people would pay £20 than £20 but it might not be enough to make up for lost sales of games.  £40, i.e. one full value title might make economic sense. 

 

Ironically, I could see such a system appealing to the really big games like GTA, Fifa, Destiny, Call of Duty etc.  Right now you buy GTA, spend 100 hours on it and the developers get the same money that you spend on another game and spend 10 hours on.  A system which splits revenue according to time spent on the game must look attractive to publishers of those types of games (although it could well backfire into making Developers just needlessly pad out games). 

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3 minutes ago, bradigor said:

Where do you get a notification on whether you've been picked or not? Assume you'll just get an update. 

 

Go to the Insider hub app, that's where I found it. 

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21 hours ago, Charles said:

How much do we think a service would have to be priced at which included brand new games?  Could share revenue by the % of your time that you spend on each game.

 

I'm not expecting something like this to happen soon, just wondering what the cost might be versus what people would pay.  Maybe £20-40 per month?.  I think more people would pay £20 than £20 but it might not be enough to make up for lost sales of games.  £40, i.e. one full value title might make economic sense. 

 

Ironically, I could see such a system appealing to the really big games like GTA, Fifa, Destiny, Call of Duty etc.  Right now you buy GTA, spend 100 hours on it and the developers get the same money that you spend on another game and spend 10 hours on.  A system which splits revenue according to time spent on the game must look attractive to publishers of those types of games (although it could well backfire into making Developers just needlessly pad out games). 

 

Well if you look at the financials of Netflix, you begin to see how problematic it is to fund expensive games on these sorts of services without a very large subscriber base paying a fair sum of money each month. For 2016, Netflix had over 90 Million subscribers globally, did $8.8 Billion in revenue (which isn't profit, that was reported at $186 Million) and invested $6 Billion in content (both original and licensed). You don't have to be a maths expert to see something doesn't add up.

 

If you're having to pay $Tens of Millions to fund each new game to come to the service and want at least 1 to launch per month, you'd be looking at $400+ Million per year to do that if they cost an average of $35 Million to fund. The more subscribers you could get on these services, the less each person would have to pay, but also the more you'd have to fund each game as there would be nobody left to buy them at retail if the majority of potential customers have paid $10-50 a month to some subscription service and can get it included in the price instead of buying it.

 

All the biggest retail console games have already gone down the Software-as-a-Service route by stealth, they all make substantial amounts from microtransactions/DLC so wouldn't need to resort to doing these subscriber services, it'd be all the also-rans and indies which can't do it alone that might find this route more profitable.

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Everybody who's interested in these services and dreaming of Netflix originals comparisons should definitely listen to what Phil Spencer has to say about it and set your expectations accordingly. Episodic adventure games being one thing he thinks might benefit from launching on it if it reaches the necessary scale to support that sort of thing.

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There's a big change coming to this, starting with Sea of Thieves, all of Microsoft's titles will be on Game Pass, from day one. :o

 

Quote

Microsoft is planning to bring its own exclusive Xbox games, published through Microsoft Studios, to the company’s Xbox Game Pass subscription. Future games, including Sea of Thieves, will be available via subscription on the same day they’re available to purchase at retail stores or through the Microsoft Store. “The number one request from our customers... was to get new blockbuster games into Game Pass,” explains Microsoft’s games chief, Phil Spencer, in an interview with The Verge.

Sea of Thieves will be the first title available on launch day, March 20th, through the Xbox Games Pass, and that will “follow through with State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3, and the rest of our portfolio,” says Spencer. “Not just those games, but our future Halos, our future Gears of War, future Forzas, and other games. Our plan is to launch those to our Game Pass subscribers at the same time they go to retail.”

 

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That's huge!

If I could be bothered, I'd go back and pick out my post about the Netflix model for gaming one day getting day one big releases to get players onboard. It works well too, as I was interested in Sea of Thieves, but not any where enough to buy it on release. So more than happy to keep that subscription going. 

This would mean then...Forza Horizon 4 will be on Game Pass Day One! Fuck!

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Also, they seem to be the first of the big players to make the move to really piss off bricks and mortar retail. Be interesting to see what effect it has. 

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Surely it's going to decimate retail. Good move by MS though.

 

I can't wait to see how the anti-MS crew spin this to be somehow negative and bad for the consumer...

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