Hollow Knight - Soulsvania platformer

[David Heath]

I finished this last night.

 

It took 42 hours and I ended with 79% so I still have a fair amount left to do, which I'm looking forward to.

 

It's a weird one, though. I mean, the game is incredible. It's one of the most atmospheric and beautiful things I've ever played. Imagine if David Lynch directed a Studio Ghibli film, or, I dunno, H. P. Lovecraft wrote an episode of In The Night Garden. It's fucked. The sound design is glorious. The monstrous scuttling and breathing effects in some of the lower regions of the map are straight up deranged. I also love how simple the controls seem, but how much the game designers do with it based around the movements of different enemies and the bosses. There are so many variations, and almost every single creature has it's own best way to attack and avoid, which is impressive work.

 

But I've had a super odd relationship with the progression.

 

Like, I thought I knew how these games are supposed to work. I 100%ed Axiom Verge in December, and I've beaten all the Metroid games, but something about this had me puzzled as fuck, which is cool, but in ways I wasn't expecting, which is ... cool? There was a point about four hours in where I was totally jammed. I had no clue where to go. It happened again about ten hours in. I don't think it's ever immediately obvious where to go next. Even the clues you get from the dude in the village aren't that clear, and whereas in a game like Axiom Verge and Super Metroid you can almost just rely on the map to work out what you're supposed to be doing, I feel like the nature of progression in Hollow Knight doesn't allow for this prior knowledge. It feels like you need to do more backtracking in previous areas than most normal games of this kind. Which is great, and that's awesome, but it did throw me quite a bit, because I felt like I'd been programmed to think I knew where I was meant to be, but I'd frequently be caught off guard and find myself finding myself being wrong a lot. It was interesting. It jumbled with my expectations in all kinds of ways.

 

Even now, after beating the final boss, it's kinda difficult to work out what to do next. I have some clear goals where I know what needs to be done, but then there are some objectives I'm not sure how to follow up on. I also don't feel like the map is particularly well signposted, and there's one objective in particular where I have no clue where I'm supposed to be headed. It's weird. It's like I know what's up but I don't know what's up.

 

In conclusion, Hollow Knight is kinda like walking up to the bar and slapping your girlfriend's ass and kissing the back of her neck but then you realise it was her twin sister and her mum was watching all along.

 

10/10

[Moz]

This started wonderfully but is really starting to drag now. I feel like I should have finished it ten hours ago. Two massive sessions have yielded nothing but closed doors and impossible bosses. How do you make the game end once the dreamers are on the map? Absolutely nothing is signposted anywhere, I've had to use a guide (which I HATE doing) after hitting multiple brick walls of running around in circles with zero direction from the game for several hours.

[Jamie John]

5 hours ago, Moz said:

This started wonderfully but is really starting to drag now. I feel like I should have finished it ten hours ago. Two massive sessions have yielded nothing but closed doors and impossible bosses. How do you make the game end once the dreamers are on the map? Absolutely nothing is signposted anywhere, I've had to use a guide (which I HATE doing) after hitting multiple brick walls of running around in circles with zero direction from the game for several hours

 

Have you dealt with all the Dreamers? If so,

Spoiler

you can finish the game at this point by returning to the Black Egg temple in the Crossroads and fighting the final boss to prematurely end the game. There's quite a lot more content you'll miss out on, however. Who are the impossible bosses you mention?

 

[Moz]

No, they're all hanging in the air connected to nothing on the map, and every open exit on the whole map just leads to a locked door. Pretty sure I have all the abilities. I did the first dreamer in the archive because it's the only one that seems to have a route to get to it, through the jellyfish bit. The bloke in dirtmouth just tells me to sit on a bench. I've bought all the stock at every shop.

[Jamie John]

44 minutes ago, Moz said:

No, they're all hanging in the air connected to nothing on the map, and every open exit on the whole map just leads to a locked door. Pretty sure I have all the abilities. I did the first dreamer in the archive because it's the only one that seems to have a route to get to it, through the jellyfish bit. The bloke in dirtmouth just tells me to sit on a bench. I've bought all the stock at every shop.

 

Have you found the Deepnest yet?

[Mrs Horribleman]

To be fair, I found finding the dreamers a little tricky, but it really was me not exploring thoroughly. It is probably easy to miss where they are though. 

 

Spoilers if you want a little more guidance:

 

Spoiler

There's once in the top of a tower in the City of Tears. Have you explored the tower properly?

 

You need to find Deepnest. There's a room in a maze area with a Dreamer.

 

[Dinobot]

I started this and for some reason it left me a little cold. Worth preserving with? The early experience was kind of dull, and without any real story I didn't have a big desire to keep playing.

[womble9]

On 09/01/2019 at 09:52, gossi the dog said:

Xbox version is currently on sale. It's worth a shot at £7.50 right?

 

Absobloodybastardlutely. It's crazy good.

 

I think I'm coming close to finishing it on Switch and I could honestly be tempted to buy it again and I'm a tight northen sod!  

[Mrs Horribleman]

9 minutes ago, Dinobot said:

I started this and for some reason it left me a little cold. Worth preserving with? The early experience was kind of dull, and without any real story I didn't have a big desire to keep playing.

It's incredible. Play until you get the first upgrade at least.

[grindmouse]

About 10 hours in and opened up a ton of the map. At the City of Tears - do I have to defeat Soul Master next? The only other boss I found is a Brooding Mawlek and I can’t beat that either. Had my nail upgraded and got an extra health mask. Any tips on where next?

[mdn2]

Do Soul Master. He's your next target. 

[grindmouse]

24 minutes ago, mdn2 said:

Do Soul Master. He's your next target. 

 

Cheers. I have about 1000 geo, and there are a lot of vendors open, it’s a bit of a pain traversing to them to see if they have anything that might help me. Though I’m low on notches. There’s that weird bug in Fungal Wastes selling three items promising to make the game loads easier - worth buying any of them?

[mdn2]

They're unique 'one use' charms. When you die, they break. I never really bothered with them. 

[wretcherd]

On 11/01/2019 at 01:26, Moz said:

impossible bosses

This is usually where to go next.

[iknowgungfu]

On 08/01/2019 at 15:10, Popo said:

Any advice for grinding geo quickly? I opted to...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

...upgrade my fragile charms to their unbreakable versions, but the amount of geo required to get back fragile greed from the big bug lady was pretty obscene...

 

...so I haven’t gone back to do the final Grimm Troupe fight as I understand the whole load of them disappear once beaten and I’d lose the charm.  

I ended up selling lots of the things you pick up and then doing the trials a few times easiest I've gives you about 1000. Think the most expensive one is the strength I've at 15000. 

 

I'm not sure I can be arsed doing the final troupe boss though....

 

I collected all the the grubs last night - only just found out the thing that reveals then on the map (been playing for over 65 hours). Only had three to find in the end. 

 

I am thinking of wrapping this game up soon. I just want to finish the dream nail thing as I think I have one more landmark dream essence to reach. 

[therearerules]

10 hours ago, grindmouse said:

 

Cheers. I have about 1000 geo, and there are a lot of vendors open, it’s a bit of a pain traversing to them to see if they have anything that might help me. Though I’m low on notches. There’s that weird bug in Fungal Wastes selling three items promising to make the game loads easier - worth buying any of them?

Is that enough for the lantern? If so get that. It also means you can leave the Soul Master for now 

[grindmouse]

37 minutes ago, therearerules said:

Is that enough for the lantern? If so get that. It also means you can leave the Soul Master for now 

 

I went with a simple key and headed down into the waterways. Nearly had the Dung Defender beat on first try so heading that direction, will get the lantern next.

[Moz]

23 hours ago, Mrs Horribleman said:

To be fair, I found finding the dreamers a little tricky, but it really was me not exploring thoroughly. It is probably easy to miss where they are though. 

 

Spoilers if you want a little more guidance:

 

  Hide contents

There's once in the top of a tower in the City of Tears. Have you explored the tower properly?

 

You need to find Deepnest. There's a room in a maze area with a Dreamer.

 

 

I just used a guide. I had already been all over deepnest. I had to hit a random part of a wall that didn't look any different to anywhere else (e.g. black) to continue. Sigh.

 

Yes I've explored the entire tower, about 25 hours ago! The only uncovered exit leads to a corridor with a locked door. So I guess I'll use a guide again.

 

I've been all over the whole map - done tonnes of bosses, most of them were pretty cheap and obnoxious. I'm regularly walking around with about 10k because I have nothing to spend it on. I don't even bother collecting my ghost sometimes. I have most of the charms and all of the abilities etc.

 

I guess my problem with the game is that everything is 10% more annoying, slow or kludgy than it needs to be in service of "muh soulslike" but it mostly works in detriment to having fun and improvising. I think removing the Bubsy the bobcat style "touching an enemy damages you" (which causes a million frustrating little shortcomings in combat) and replacing it with specific enemy attacks which do more damage would be a huge improvement.

 

FYI @therearerules the lantern is 1800.

[ann coulter]

For a variety of reasons I give up on the game each time I start a new playthrough, but what each new playthrough serves to emphasise is just how open the game is from very early on and how wildly different your path through the game can be each time. On this latest attempt, 

Spoiler

I've somehow made my way through Mantis Village, onwards through Deepnest where I picked up the tram ticket, then on through Ancient Basin and The Hive to Kingdom's Edge, where I finally found a Stag Station in King's Station to take me back to Dirtmouth with pockets and pockets of Geo, all this before I've found City of Tears or Crystal Peak, or that dream place I was whisked away to on my first ever playthrough.

 

[grindmouse]

Dung Defender is probably one of the easier boss fights but it just... keeps... on... going. Hugely satisfying downing that bastard.

 

Bought the lamp, and still have Soul Master to do, but off exploring the Crystal Peak area first.

[joe bazooka]

Been playing this for about 12 hours. Absolutely hated it at first but just recently I began to truly detest it.

 

Only kept going because I heard good things. I'm stuck as fuck. I'd google but google what? Where am I stuck? Seeing as I've no clue what I'm supposed to be doing I don't know. I've unlocked about 5 areas and... Now what. The fast travel things are about half an hour apart! Fuck this game.

 

I think the controls are horrible too. 

 

Yeah, I hate this game.

[grindmouse]

8 minutes ago, joe bazooka said:

I've unlocked about 5 areas and... Now what. The fast travel things are about half an hour apart! Fuck this game.

 

I think the controls are horrible too. 

 

Yeah, I hate this game.

 

You have the dash, nail extension, steady body charms? Navigating between fast travel points only takes a few minutes and shouldn’t pose a challenge.

 

12 hours in, 7-8 areas unlocked. Loving it, one of the best metroid-style games I’ve played.

 

Technically isn’t a metroidvania as no RPG levelling amirite?

[joe bazooka]

Think I've got those things. Got dash and steady. Just don't know where to go next. It's like, there's a thing that says yiu can fit something in it. Then I found a thing that says it can be slotted into something. Bingo, I'll do that. Nope. Or I got the downward dash. There's a bit of unsteady ground in that mine! Bingo! Nope. Took me eight weeks to work out how to bounce on those berries. Somebody then told me you can bounce on spikes but like fuck am I gonna die a thousand times bouncing on spikes without knowing if it actually goes anywhere.

[iknowgungfu]

Sometimes the guy best the bench in dirt mouth gives clues where to go next. 

[Popo]

You should be able to use the map to identify areas of potential progress - if you haven’t been using pins to remind yourself of what kind of gate is in the way this might take a bit of time but at least you’ll be getting geo, and fighting enemies is fun even at the worst of times. 

[grindmouse]

Defeated Soul Master and then the game was a cunt about it.

[schmojo]

I'm back in on this, having not been charmed with it the first time. Probably about 8 hours in.

 

It's nice, and atmospheric, but not worthy of the praise lavished on it. The offensive combat is simplistic to the point of being boring, and trudging through the same 5 mins of platforming just to get another arse-kicking from the boss makes inventive sections tedious quickly.

 

I like that I'm getting lost at times. It's made me realise how much I'm used to the format of other Metroidvanias as far as exploration goes. But It's not going to crack my top 5.

[iknowgungfu]

Thought I would be wrapping this up soon but have found more stuff I hadn't done !

 

Fully awoken the dream nail now and am finding the following fantastically thrilling and infuriating at the same time (which is probably how I would describe the whole game). 

Spoiler

White Palace

Spoiler

 

 

There have been so many times this game has almost made me uninstall in disgust but I always get sucked right back in for one more go. 

[Mrs Horribleman]

10 hours ago, schmojo said:

I'm back in on this, having not been charmed with it the first time. Probably about 8 hours in.

 

It's nice, and atmospheric, but not worthy of the praise lavished on it. The offensive combat is simplistic to the point of being boring, and trudging through the same 5 mins of platforming just to get another arse-kicking from the boss makes inventive sections tedious quickly.

 

I like that I'm getting lost at times. It's made me realise how much I'm used to the format of other Metroidvanias as far as exploration goes. But It's not going to crack my top 5.

Where are you up to, roughly?

[Sane]

I just beat Soul Master! Second try, on the bus even! It was a pretty long fight, several times I thought I beat him but he kept coming back.