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Gorf King

Destiny 2: still no word from Eris

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2 hours ago, alex3d said:

How do I join the Rllmuk clan? Search for rllmuk renegades didn't yield any result...?! AlexPID is my PSN nick. 

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Season of Opulence launches on 4 June and, fuck me, so does the raid: Crown of Sorrow. But the raid launches at fucking midnight in the UK. First encounter recommended level is PL 715. Some changes have been made to levelling to 'ensure a level playing field': see TWAB for more details, but basically:

 

Quote

With this race, there will be a few minor changes to current investment systems to ensure an even playing field while players are increasing their Power at the launch of the Season.

  • Last Wish and Scourge of the Past will be unavailable until Crown of Sorrow has been beaten
    • This prevents players with a stash of Ethereal Keys from having a leg up in the race
  • Prime Attunements will be reset to two charges per character on day one
    • While characters build Prime Attunement charges over time, these are being set to two per character upon logging in after the new season begins.
    • All level 50 characters can earn Prime Engrams after signing in and playing during the Season of Opulence
    • Players may continue to build Prime Attunements over time after the reset occurs

As a reminder, any powerful bounties acquired prior to Season of Opulence will have a Power cap of 700.

 

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Trailer for the new "thing" atm....Spoilers, obvs, but if you aint been playing and found something interesting on Titan yet, then tough! (lolz kidding). Thumbnail is pretty spoilerific:

Spoiler

 

Quote

This week at Bungie, TR3-VR was waiting for you.

What was once [Redacted] is now live. Some of our favorite moments in the studio happen when players uncover the secrets in Destiny, whether it’s a new dungeon in the Dreaming City or something much more sinister, hiding within eyeshot of the Traveler. With the release of Zero Hour, we got to enjoy that all over again, right alongside many of you. The team who brought this experience to life has a short message for you:

 

Dev Team: Experiences like these are a salute to our inquisitive, skilled, and close-knit Destiny player community. We couldn’t make these without the right audience to discover and enjoy them. Thanks for being awesome, and don’t forget TR3-VR is waiting for you down there.

 

Those Season of Opulence changes effectively make it streamers only on day one I think, unless you have a really dedicated raid team.

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Well, I'll be starting at midnight and quitting at 00:30 after realising for the zillionth time I'm not slayerage so need a fireteam or a carry. I've also booked the Wednesday off so I can sulk all day about how no-one does blind raids any more without my work colleagues asking me what's wrong and I have to make a story up about romantic abandonment or life-threatening illness like I usually do.

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Been rinsing Zero Hour, think it’s top quality content. Repeat and repeat till your learn what to do. Thing is, if they banged in like two big boss encounters in it, it could’ve counted as a full raid. Think this season bangs regardless, Prime, Reckoning and this mission. Better than last season with its duff Forges and mediocre raid.

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Problem is, this season has been proper duff until Zero Hour. There's only so much Gambit/Prime and Reckoning you can play before getting sick of it.

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I’ve been well into the Prime and Reckoning cycle grinding for armour rolls. Liked the progress of it, better armour, better Prime experience. 

 

And also don’t forget the glorious 3 weeks of infinite grenades, arc turrets, captain America shields and avoiding the crucible

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Oh yeah the Revelry made all pve content ridiculously easy, but I also used the Revelry to get my Recluse - Shinobu's Vow style. I suspect I made a lot of players salty in Comp over the course of those 2 days (Fabled in 2 days! - pretty insane how easy it was with the buff).

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Just reached max level 50 in Forsaken and compared to the original Destiny 2 campaign and MP experience this has become top notch.

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2 hours ago, Mr Ben said:

Oh yeah the Revelry made all pve content ridiculously easy, but I also used the Revelry to get my Recluse - Shinobu's Vow style. I suspect I made a lot of players salty in Comp over the course of those 2 days (Fabled in 2 days! - pretty insane how easy it was with the buff).

 

Everyone was at it, I played a game of clash that ended up something like 11-8 after everyone just stood at either side of the map lobbing skips and pulses. Was hilarious. I got Luna's and Recluse in only a few matches after the revelry ended after hooking up with a trio of 16 year old wannabe gangsters from Philly. They were obsessed with me being 45 and still playing videogames. They were hugely annoying but ridiculously good at PvP, may have been carried a little. Playing with good players does make you better though. 

 

I came in to this season very late but have to admit, gambit prime is a much better version of a game mode that started out great but began to get very tiresome. 

 

Zero Hour is what Bungie do best. Started out as feeling impossible but running it a few times and it all starts to fall in to place and who knew Arbalest would actually be useful. 

 

Might try the void configuration puzzle tonight if anyone is up for it?

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I'm keen to give it a good long run, but I haven't even done heroic yet, so obviously that has to come first. We don't have enough people still playing the game in our regular crew to have given heroic a go. Maybe next week, so I guess the catalyst will drop a week later than it could have.

 

It's a great mission and a great weapon though. At this stage I have to assume that anyone who wanted to go into the mission blind to even its reward will have already done so. There's just no way you would be able to run this shit a week after release without having seen what it is you're going to win (especially since every other fucker is using it). So I'm not considering talk of the weapon itself spoilers. That being the case, Cool Guy has, as usual, written a great review of the gun which is especially pertinent for console users. 

 

 

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Yep, Aztecross said it with Chromatic Fire in pvp was great, but not so in pve due to the explosion killing any adds nearby before the nanites could do their job. I've not used it in pvp at all, but it feels so good to use in pve due to its snappy aim, good range and decent damage that its ovbiously going to be one of the more used weapons in Crucible going forward.

 

No idea if the bounty/puzzle thing will be significantly different next reset over this weeks, but it was pretty straightforward to do, and I cant see Bungie changing it much, if at all each week. I'm up for doing it whenever, as I find the mission far more enjoyable than the Whisper one, likely due to not being a massive fan of Taken enemies, and their constant warping everywhere.

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13 hours ago, Gorf King said:

I'm keen to give it a good long run, but I haven't even done heroic yet, so obviously that has to come first. 

 

Oh god the "jump on the tiny drain ledges" bit can f-off and die. I'm convinced there's a hidden cheese to skip it waiting to be discovered, like the green room in the Whisper mission. 

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4 hours ago, redbloodcel said:

 

Oh god the "jump on the tiny drain ledges" bit can f-off and die. I'm convinced there's a hidden cheese to skip it waiting to be discovered, like the green room in the Whisper mission. 

Piece of piss with a warlock:D

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Oh man. The thing I dislike most about Bungie is this stuff - giving you something glorious, and then taking it away again. 

 

There's some unpleasant stuff in there, but by far the worst of it is them doing the whole Black Hammer > Black Spindle thing, again. I mean, they did it before and no-one liked it. And now they pull the same trick, as if they didn't know what White Nail did all those years ago in its first iteration.

 

There's just nothing wrong at all with White Nail pre-nerf, and pulling ammo from reserves makes the exotic completely unexotic. More to the point, why reintroduce the fucking weapon in D2, and White Nail at all, if they're just going to take it away again? I mean, they knew all this already. They've done it before. All of it.

 

Despite the lovely things Bungie often do (Whisper quest), they equally often turn around to you after their data is in and make you feel like your experience is that of a lab rat (Whisper nerf). And that leaves you thinking, despite the glory of what is fleetingly felt when you do the triumphant stuff, that ultimately there's no real point to any of this. Bungie have a habit of building you up so you feel great and then knocking you right back down again. And this time there can be no excuse about them not realising you'd be overpowered in the first place, because we've seen almost the exact same cycle in the exact same weapon before, in D1. They knew what they were doing and what the weapon did, downsides and all. Yet they did it anyway, to pull the punters back in, and then knocked it back down to jack shit again.

 

It's such a shame, because the imagination behind the quests to get this stuff, and then the rewards themselves, are unsurpassed in online gaming. They feel special; they stand out in a sea of mediocrity. And then they undermine that feeling with this.

 

I now confidently look forward to Outbreak Perfected being comprehensively unperfected real soon, just in time to make way for the next 'overpowered' weapon to take its place. And you know what? It makes me less likely to bother with getting it (well, I got it already, but I mean the full catalyst) in the first place.

 

Cynical. Cynical and stupid. You really can do better than this, Bungie. And you really have to.

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This will definitely weigh heavy on my decision whether to purchase the next annual pass or not.

 

Nerfing armour exotics as well - probably because Titans are not in a good spot in pve, so we'll nerf the other two classes best exotics to compensate.

 

No buffs, and no reason to think they'll do any, judging by what they say in that TWAB. How long before we're back to the days of using sidearms in pvp....

 

Season of Opulence? At this rate it'll be more like Season of Abstinence.

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I mean they've always taken quite obvious steps to move the meta – we're nerfing hand cannons and buffing pulses, that kind of thing – but this is just something else. Power creep naturally leads to designing yourself into a bit of a corner, and sure, nerfs are the most straightforward way out of it. But this sort of sweeping, fuck-everything nerf just makes everyone feel bad: not just the players who find their favourite tools have suddenly become dramatically less relevant, but also the design teams who only a year ago were on a promise to make players feel powerful, but are now being told they went too far. Whisper now not only doesn't feel like an exotic, it barely justifies being in the heavy slot. Should have had a whacking great damage buff to sweeten the pill and make sure the risk/reward element of the weapon is still a thing.

 

It's an incredibly worrying sign. If we've learned one thing over the last five years it's that Destiny is at its best when its makers understand that it's okay for at least a few things to feel busted, and at its worst when they aim for perfect balance. I realise that's counterintuitive for a design team but, again, if they haven't learned by now that it's how players feel that matters, then I'm not sure there's much hope for them. 

 

I can't imagine many people are playing the game at the moment. Those of us who are lapsed need a reason to come back. They whiffed on that with the high LL gate of the Outbreak quest, though I understand why they did it. This, though, is on another level entirely. 

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It's a really dim move (sorry, DIM). You're right, no-one much is playing at the moment, despite Zero Hour injecting some interest back into what for many of us has been a lifeless Season of the Drifter. Partly cos power levels, partly cos good as it is, it's not a lot of content to come back for. But we were struggling to get six people willing to have at it seriously come June 4 in order to get serious with another blind raid - well, by struggling, I mean failing. And now this means we'll have even fewer who're willing to put the time in. Cos you don't get to use all that glorious shit you earned over the past year.

 

It's an odd thing for Bungie to do, when they must know they're entering a period of great uncertainty and they need to pull a few rabbits out of hats to bring players back in. Something to persuade them to shell out for the next annual pass, or DLC, or whatever it is that drops post-Activision. What's less likely to do that than taking everyone's favourite exotic PvE weapons and armour pieces, the ones people attack all the hardest content to get, or pray to the gods of RNG for? The ones where every time you use them you say out loud to your teammates 'god, I fucking love this gun/super', the ones that make the game so much fun to actually play?

 

We love them because they make us feel good. They actually make you do proper laugh out louds when you use them. They're among the best things about the game, and a big part of the reason we play it. In most of year one they were either non-existent or grey and underpowered in the name of 'balance'. People hated that, and stopped playing. And Bungie saw that and, lo, we got Go Faster, new and amazing exotics, and then Forsaken as a playground to go and have all this new fun in. Quests like Whisper, and now Zero Hour. They told us they'd rather make something game-breakingly good than boring and balanced and mediocre. People fucking loved this shit and they loved the insanely great weapons they got from the quests and drops. Bungie know this. They know we want more of this. And so... they nerf them into the ground.

 

I just don't get it. But I do get that they've just made it even harder to get people interested enough in the game to want to come back and do something like a blind raid. Why put the hours in when at the end of it you've just got the sort of shit we were using after beating Leviathan, then looking back and thinking, 'yeah, well, what was the point of that?'. In a looter that makes you work hard for some of the exotic stuff, you really need to covet that loot. In a shooter, you really need to covet that weapon for it to deserve its exotic slot. And they know this. They know because they've done this unexoticising thing before and have seen where it leads. To people not enjoying the game as much, and then not playing it.

 

Baffling.

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Only recently found out that the Skull of Infinite Supers was a thing and been having the time of my life bombing literally everything in the last few weeks. So will be sad when it goes.

 

But it’s obv that everyone’s loadout for the endgame content is the same, must equip Whisper, must use tether boots, must have a specific type of shotgun, must have Warlock...it’s boring. Been also guilty at thinking why tf is the next guy shooting a trace rifle at the boss, just because they are not clued in on the meta. There’s a fine line between “feeling all powerful” and making all the content trivial and an administrative route. Understand it’s part RPG and that’s the point, but it’s also a shooter. Can imagine the gatekeeping due to exotic requirements makes it more inaccessible to casuals and new people.

 

So seeing all these crutch items being calmed down a bit may be a good thing. Use some different guns lads.

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Sure, bring more variety to loadouts. But do it by making some better alternative weapons (which they have been doing recently). Do it by bringing some variety to the most effective tools by making the encounters and enemies and bosses themselves more varied. 'Use some different guns lads' is great if the other guns are as fun to use and as effective. It's not great if the other guns are fucking boring and not fun, or (which is the main reason people use Whisper) the ammo economy is shit and heavy perks don't work properly. Fix the game to make it better, not worse.

 

I don't agree that the exotics make the content 'trivial' either, and I'm surprised you're suggesting they do. I know that when we did our Riven runs, we found that fight immensely challenging every time. The blind run was really challenging, partly because of working out what to do (especially the Vault encounter), and partly the co-ordination and speed needed, especially the Riven fight. I know a lot of people seemed to just look it all up on YouTube and then use the cluster rocket launcher cheese, and that probably does make it trivial. But ironically, our group, using Whisper and playing the mechanics, didn't feel OP at all in that fight and wouldn't if we did it again tomorrow. I think it's still tough. Using some shitty purple cluster launcher probably makes it feel trivial, though, and is probably its own 'we must use this strat' mandatory requirement for some. Nothing to do with the exotics at all. 

 

In fact, the same's true of the last raid - we all used Sleeper and/or Whisper for the last boss and didn't find that a pushover either. So no, I don't agree that these exotics make encounters trivial. I do think cheesing the thing or exploiting does, or just looking up and copying the 'optimal strat' on YouTube. Which there'll be just as much of, or possibly even more, when the pinnacle weapons are nerfed. You'll just be using less fun, less effective weapons, which makes people even less likely to want to embark on something like a blind raid run. It's that loss which will trivialise content, because with less effective weapons they're more likely to look for a cheese method.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason for this nerf might be that the forthcoming raid isn't imaginative or challenging enough to stand up to the pinnacle weapons. And if that's the case, the problem isn't with the weapons, it's with your encounter design. Because when they make imaginative and challenging content - like Riven - those pinnacle weapons work just fine with them. More of that please, and less of this.

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1 hour ago, mikeyl said:

Only recently found out that the Skull of Infinite Supers was a thing and been having the time of my life bombing literally everything in the last few weeks. So will be sad when it goes.

 

But it’s obv that everyone’s loadout for the endgame content is the same, must equip Whisper, must use tether boots, must have a specific type of shotgun, must have Warlock...it’s boring. Been also guilty at thinking why tf is the next guy shooting a trace rifle at the boss, just because they are not clued in on the meta. There’s a fine line between “feeling all powerful” and making all the content trivial and an administrative route. Understand it’s part RPG and that’s the point, but it’s also a shooter. Can imagine the gatekeeping due to exotic requirements makes it more inaccessible to casuals and new people.

 

So seeing all these crutch items being calmed down a bit may be a good thing. Use some different guns lads.

 

This isn't because those things are too good though, it's because so many other exotic armour pieces are trash, it's been applied so haphazardly and, speaking personally, feels like certain players are being punished whilst others aren't. Tethers by themselves aren't high-DPS supers & aren't providing a debuff that's as good as a class ability, without the quick recycle you get with Orpheus Rig Nightstalker is basically a dead class when it comes to Endgame content, and how is that supposed to help make the game experience better? I don't want to have to be a f*cking Arcstrider to be a useful member of a raid team, but this along with Shards being way too unreliable means that there's little choice. 

 

I guess I'll just have to get good at getting that 3x Combination Blow stack up and utterly break my Super DPS output instead, because that's not going to break your content is it, Bungie? 

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I'm sorry, could someone explain this to me in layman's terms? I'm aware that "nerfing" means that something has been made weaker, in this case D2's best weapons (exotics, legendary gear). But a) why does Bungie need to do this and b) why is that such a big deal? Thanks.

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When/if you get to the endgame content (Raids, classically, but also the bigger harder more secret missions - Whisper of the Worm, the new Outbreak Perfected, Shattered Throne) or really start getting sweaty about PvP or Gambit, Bungie have an issue.

 

The best gear, that confers actual benefits to gameplay, can be hard to get. It should be hard to get, because it's powerful. Powerful stuff feels good. So you want the powerful stuff, and you play the hard content to get it. The hard content is fun to play, but needs commitment. The reward is the powerful stuff.

 

When you've worked hard to get the powerful stuff, you want to use it. It makes the hard content easier, so you'll play it more. But that gives Bungie two problems. One: people don't like it in PvP / Gambit when the guys with the best guns shoot them. Two: for people not gifted with a strong Destiny friends list, the third party matchmaking sites start insisting that people need the powerful stuff to be allowed to play the hard content.

 

Bungie's approach to this is often to start making the powerful stuff less powerful. Which pisses everyone off.

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