Destiny 2: Lightfall

[Scruff]

Yeah, that's a pretty reasonable position to take. I wasn't being aggressive, I'm just so fucked off with them that where you see lack of direction and hesitation in them, I see pettiness and arrogance. To me, they don't care what the players believe should be in the game, they know best and we'd best like it.

 

I mean, they can say 'oh, we know things aren't balanced with Eververse' but that's a blatant lie and lip service, the same as the XP debacle. If it wasn't for enterprising redditors we'd all still be none the wiser and Bungie would be trying it on even more. They're a shithouse bunch of cunts and we'll pay for having the impunity to question them in some way or another.

 

*edit - to Mike

[Oz]

I think having 6v6 as another option is a really good solution. As opposed to replacing the 4v4 modes. I wish there were 4 player versions of the raid content. Are weapon skins a thing now? 

[Mr Ben]

40 minutes ago, Weavus said:

 

TL/DR; Play something else for 12 months

Essentially Reddits reaction to it in a nutshell, or wait for D3, if you are so inclined (which is probably no-one right now!).

 

I know I didnt post any reactions to it all, but thats because I knew not to expect much, and I am surprised to see the list is fairly long, but their priorities on the time scale of things is way out of wack. For example, a lot of the stuff in the Fall 2018 part should be right now - Shaders, and how to mass delete them, storage space for them (kiosk?) and why they take up so much room in the first place, Item Collections and Records - its there for exotics, it just costs 10 shards, why not just copy that for other stuff? We have to wait that long for Rumble and other Crucible game modes as well? Seriously?!?

 

Almost all of the first 2 months is what we were expecting anyway, as they announced it all (Eververse stuff aside) before they buggered off for Xmas, so nothing new there. The Eververse thing is obviously due to the reaction the playerbase has had over the past 2 months or so. And rightly bloody so! The new proposed system is how it should have been from the start, oddly enough like it was in Destiny 1.

 

Obviously that factors into endgame rewards, and of course the lore will now be free from the Eververse, finally, so a score for the lore boffins. I guess. Obviously we dont know where these rewards will be placed, but a ghost in the raid (each raid?) is a start. I am worried a little about the "raid specific" perks however, mainly because of weapons being altered to only be effective in the raids, rather than as they are now. I hope they mean that they will gain an additional effect in the raid, rather than changing an existing perk or whatever.

 

My main gripe is that they should be looking at the core systems sooner rather than later, as if they decide to change, say the weapon system, that will throw a lot of other things out of wack the longer they leave it. That is of course, if they are even thinking of looking at the core weapon system. Lord knows they should, as snipers, shotguns and fusion rifles are in a bad place right now, and have been since launch!

 

To sum up, I think there are a lot of good changes here, but they are a bit muddled as to their priorities. I have to say though, that with 700+ people working at Bungie, its a bit rubbish that it will take that long to fix all this. I suspect that they have the majority of those working on D3, or whatever next project is in the works (we know they have one, it was in that BBC documentary), and wont pull them off that to fix Destiny 2. Which is a shame, as fixing this should really be their highest priority, as I dont think many people are that interested in whats next from Bungie anymore.

[Oz]

Looks like rebalancing weapons will continue to be a season by season thing from my read. But maybe they'll play around with heavy spawns before then?

[Uncle Mike]

10 minutes ago, Nate Dogg III said:

I don't think it's quite so simple as giving reddit what they're asking for – rather it's about both of them reaching the same sets of conclusions on what's needed. 

 

I hope so. Otherwise I'm quite worried about later down the road!

 

The overall reaction to this around the net is a practically perfect case study for anyone doing perception management/PR/crisis response. Once you've lost trust, it's a hard slog to get it back.

[Nate Dogg III]

9 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

 

I hope so. Otherwise I'm quite worried about later down the road!

 

The overall reaction to this around the net is a practically perfect case study for anyone doing perception management/PR/crisis response. Once you've lost trust, it's a hard slog to get it back.

 

Yes absolutely. One of the early comments in the reddit megathread last night was something like, "I'll be back in a few hours when everyone's upvoted the post that tells me what to think about this" and while I'm sure it was meant at least partially in jest, it was so, so instructive. That's the problem in a nutshell.

 

I'm looking forward to Datto's video on it. He was asked to sum up his initial reaction in one word and went with "whelmed", which makes a lot of sense. It's good stuff, but good stuff that should never have been taken away from us, and in some cases is taking a little too long to be given back. I don't think anyone's upset about what's in the post itself, really, they're just sad – and in many cases angry – that it was even necessary. 

 

 

[Mr Ben]

I found it telling when both Datto and Ms 5000 Watts (who's husband works at Bungie.....awkward!) both decided to play other games on their Twitch streams and Youtube accounts more than Destiny from now on. That was before this update. Felt a bit like they had inside info, which with Ms 5000 Watts, may have been the case

[Nate Dogg III]

They're all at it. Datto said last year that 2018 was looking rough for anyone trying to do pure Destiny and he was likely to branch out. I feel for those guys – QoL changes benefit players, not streamers. They need content for that.

 

On the bright side it's got me watching Fortnite, and thinking about giving it a go. Kraftyy's predictably amazing at it.

[Harsin]

10 minutes ago, Nate Dogg III said:

On the bright side it's got me watching Fortnite, and thinking about giving it a go.

 

I suggested that ages ago.  

 

If you are interested then there's a bunch of PS4 peeps playing most nights, most playing instead of Destiny nowadays.

[Mr Ben]

Been playing all my back catalogue of games instead, and theres quite a lot.

 

I have tried Warframe, and while its incredibly deep with its mods, character customisation, and character growth, its also too deep at the start, in that it throws you into the deep end, the story takes far too long to get started - I still have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing after like 60 hours or whatever (thats only an estimate, as I havent looked at time played) - and you feel that after that long you still havent scratched the surface. Its clearly supposed to be an actual MMO, and is ridiculously complex. Might go back to it, if only to figure out wtf is going on in it.

[Nate Dogg III]

5 minutes ago, Harsin said:

 

I suggested that ages ago.  

 

If you are interested then there's a bunch of PS4 peeps playing most nights, most playing instead of Destiny nowadays.

 

Yeah I know. I think that, as with PUBG, it's something I'd prefer to watch than play. Would be too worried about letting the side down. Also the whole building thing just spins me out a bit.

[Hexx]

Quote

"We will be evaluating how Mods play into the Bright Engram economy as a result, because we’re sensitive to pay-to-win outcomes."

 

Just don't put them into BEs then.

Problem solved.

I should be a game designer

[Weavus]

2 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

It's just I get the sense from their updates that actually Bungie don't have ideas of their own here. It's like they've made all these changes to systems and setup for D2 with this narrow focus on one area ("balance Eververse") and not thought it through. 

 

Fixed that for you.

 

"we’re sensitive to pay-to-win outcomes." is the reason the loot feels so bland and weak. Can't be having powerful loot in bright engrams as it may be deemed pay-to-win, but can't have loot in the game thats more powerful than it outside of bright engrams or nobody will buy silver. If you can't make powerful loot outside of bright engrams why make a black spindle type quest as nobody will be bother to do it. Can't have random rolls in loot in bright engrams or thats pay-to-win so can't have random rolls outside of bright engrams or nobody will buy silver. It affects everything.

 

Eververse is the single reason D2 was such a turd on delivery. The only change they need to make right now is to go back to making it emotes only. Everything else will correct itself over time after that as they will no longer have to think how it affects their cash cow.

[berties paw]

Went back to the Tower after our Raid attempt last night and thought they had finally sacked Tess.

 

[Gigga]

Gamers are such an entitled bunch of fucking shitheads.

 

Microsoft absolutely fucked the XBOX One based on "feedback" from a community that all then went out and bought PS4s anyway.

 

Bungie just list out every fucking thing they have been told to do and the reaction is "no fuck u".

 

Maybe if you don't want the game you should just fuck off and stop talking about it so that these companies aren't hearing "feedback" from fickle children who have already moved onto the next thing.

[DonRumsfeld]

We wanted the game to build on all the improvements they’d made throughout D1. At the end of D1 you’d for me near enough the perfect game. 

 

With D2 we were hoping for what we had already in regards to gameplay and rewards perhaps refined and a whole new world to play that in. What we got was a a big step backwards in regards to the endgame. Early to mid they knocked it out of the park, endgame they blew. 

 

That can be seen from LFG’s etc, in D1 throughout you never had problems getting a raid or even nightfall together.  4 months into D2 it’s a ghost town. 

[mikeyl]

Who are the misfits who asked for the Nightfall timer to be taken away though? Nightfalls are supposed to be rock.

[Weavus]

4 minutes ago, mikeyl said:

Who are the misfits who asked for the Nightfall timer to be taken away though? Nightfalls are supposed to be rock.

 

Just needed a much bigger more diverse set of random modifiers imo (hey, like D1!). The timer concept was great although the timegates and oracles were a bit rubbish after the first go as they were always in the same place. They should have randomised those too. 

[Gigga]

46 minutes ago, DonRumsfeld said:

We wanted the game to build on all the improvements they’d made throughout D1. At the end of D1 you’d for me near enough the perfect game. 

 

With D2 we were hoping for what we had already in regards to gameplay and rewards perhaps refined and a whole new world to play that in. What we got was a a big step backwards in regards to the endgame. Early to mid they knocked it out of the park, endgame they blew. 

 

That can be seen from LFG’s etc, in D1 throughout you never had problems getting a raid or even nightfall together.  4 months into D2 it’s a ghost town. 

 

I completely understand that, although tbh I stopped playing D1 somewhere around the time of the last expansion.

 

It's not like I don't share the frustrations - what I don't understand is why people have to ruin it for those of us who are still playing when they clearly won't be happy with any realistic outcome. Why would people spend all of their time on reddit posting about a game they don't play, asking for improvements to it, to then meet an announcement about those improvements with "I'm not coming back".

 

For the average punter its an £80 investment, I get that, but the same people have piles of games they have never played, or are happy to spend £80 on the next thing to play while moaning about this one. For Bungie, for the people working on this it's not only their work, their art, it's their future livelyhood and I just think people should have some more respect for that and be a bit more mindful about how they spend their time.

 

 

[Broker]

2 hours ago, Nate Dogg III said:

 

Yeah I know. I think that, as with PUBG, it's something I'd prefer to watch than play. Would be too worried about letting the side down. Also the whole building thing just spins me out a bit.

 

There’s solo modes in both that are great where nobody else is relying on you.

 

1 hour ago, Gaz said:

Microsoft absolutely fucked the XBOX One based on "feedback" from a community that all then went out and bought PS4s anyway.

 

Literally nobody asked for the DRM filled TV box, Microsoft created that to please their shareholders, not their customers.

[Gigga]

6 minutes ago, Broker said:

Literally nobody asked for the DRM filled TV box, Microsoft created that to please their shareholders, not their customers.

 

The initial plans for the xbox one - when it was intended to be always online and allow game sharing and stuff were shat on by short sighted idiots who went on to buy the PS4 anyway.

 

It was a fantastic move, marketing wise by Sony, but fuck all of those idiots who ruined it for the people who bought the xbox one with their whining over a product they were never going to buy anyway.

[FlowerOfInfinity]

5 minutes ago, Gaz said:

 

The initial plans for the xbox one - when it was intended to be always online and allow game sharing and stuff were shat on by short sighted idiots who went on to buy the PS4 anyway.

 

It was a fantastic move, marketing wise by Sony, but fuck all of those idiots who ruined it for the people who bought the xbox one with their whining over a product they were never going to buy anyway.

 

It's sort of both funny and sad how angry you are about this.

 

I would have bought the One in a heartbeat if it was what it eventually became. Forcing me to pay for a Kinect I would never had used and removing my ability to trade in games were dealbreakers for me, and their whole attitude was just mind-boggling ("We have a console for those people - it's called the Xbox 360" fucking Jesus).

 

As it is I bought a PS4 and really enjoyed it. Bought a One too when they'd come down in price, but my brother's got that now, I just don't need one for anything. Maybe when Crackdown 3 comes out I'll look at getting a One S (partially for the UHD drive too).

 

On topic: I think I'll be waiting a few months to jump back into Destiny, I kind of burned myself out on it over the Christmas break.

[Gigga]

Yeah - I disagree completely.

 

I was never going to buy a PS4 as my main machine because the controller is absolutely shit for FPS games and that's what I play most, but I didn't kick up a massive fuss and demand Sony change it. I've got a PS4 now and it sits there unused apart from The Last Guardian, making it pretty much the most expensive game I've ever bought.

 

I wanted the kinect, and I wanted to be able to get rid of game discs entirely and have digital only titles that I could share with my friends. Stopping that, I think, held gaming back immensely.

 

 

[FlowerOfInfinity]

Yeah ironically I buy almost everything digitally these days, but I rented a lot from Boomerang at the time and it was a big deal to me then.

 

Why do you think the DS4 is shit, by the way? I mostly play FPSs and it's fine for me, apart from the low battery life. I put some thumbstick covers on too for extra grippiness. I never liked the DS3 pads, they just felt incredibly flimsy to me but the DS4s are great, possibly my favourite ever, or just behind the 360 pads.

[Kevvy Metal]

I massively prefer the Dual Shock 4 to the XB1 pad. 

Better, smaller shape, better less clicky buttons and triggers, shorter sticks that feel grippier. 

Bettery life is rubs though. 

[FlowerOfInfinity]

Yeah the XB1 pad felt like a prototype rather than the final polished article, particularly the bumpers. It just felt slightly uncomfortable whenever I used it and I found it distracting.

[Gigga]

1 hour ago, Giraffetastic said:

Yeah ironically I buy almost everything digitally these days, but I rented a lot from Boomerang at the time and it was a big deal to me then.

 

Why do you think the DS4 is shit, by the way? I mostly play FPSs and it's fine for me, apart from the low battery life. I put some thumbstick covers on too for extra grippiness. I never liked the DS3 pads, they just felt incredibly flimsy to me but the DS4s are great, possibly my favourite ever, or just behind the 360 pads.

 

Neither the sticks, nor the triggers feel right for FPS. The sticks have too much play in them and the triggers are really spongy. The DS3 was pretty much the same and I never felt comfortable playing shooters on it - despite playing through all of the resistance and killzone games.

 

The Xbox One pad feels like a compromise too - the sticks are weirdly small and the triggers don't feel as springy as the 360 pad.

I'd have stuck with the 360 pad on xbox one if I could, tbh.

[FlowerOfInfinity]

Oh god yeah Killzone just felt so immensely off. I think it was partly the curve on the triggers it was just so wrong.

[tnman]

Switch pro controller > XB1 > PS4

 

obvs

[Shimmyhill]

1 hour ago, Giraffetastic said:

Oh god yeah Killzone just felt so immensely off. I think it was partly the curve on the triggers it was just so wrong.

 

That and it’s a shit game/series.

 

Poor old @Gaz backing both Microsoft and Bungie at the moment, tell us your lottery numbers so we know what to avoid!

 

If Bungie went to the wall due to Eververse then not a tear would be shed and I say that as a mega fan of theirs right up until Destiny 2, treat your customers with such disdain and see how many people care when it goes wrong. It’s a sad thing to say but the lies, gambling and outright fraud in the game mechanics have ruined them as a developer for me and don’t see how they can come back from it esp as it turns out that was all on Bungie and not evil Activision.