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Destiny 2: Lightfall

Uncle Mike

By Uncle Mike
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Mr Ben

Mr Ben

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Posted

No way is this better than Rise of Iron, and from what I've seen of it all, raid included, Rise of Iron puts it to shame, and it was made by the B team while Bungie supposedly concentrated on Destiny 2. It may be personal taste, but the Wrath of the Machine raid is leaps and bounds better than both raids in Destiny 2 - I may not have played the new raid, but I've watched it being completed, and its good, but its nowhere near as good as Wrath.

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dreamylittledream

dreamylittledream

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11 minutes ago, Mr Ben said:

No way is this better than Rise of Iron, and from what I've seen of it all, raid included, Rise of Iron puts it to shame, and it was made by the B team while Bungie supposedly concentrated on Destiny 2. It may be personal taste, but the Wrath of the Machine raid is leaps and bounds better than both raids in Destiny 2 (I may not have played the new raid, but I've watched it being completed, and its good, but its nowhere near as good as Wrath).

 

Wrath of the Machine aside I thought Rise of Iron was average at best - the campaign was very disappointing when compared to TTK, The Plaguelands added little, I can't even remember what the new strikes were like (clearly that memorable).  The best bits were the artefacts, the quests and  Archon's Forge.  If you can't raid often (and time/life commitments mean I struggle) it was a so so expansion.  And it was a tenner more than CoO no?

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Mr Ben

Mr Ben

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The campaign wasnt the best, but it was made by the B team and fairly quickly as well to fill the gap until Destiny 2. Plaguelands added an entire patrol area, including changes to the Cosmodrome (snow for one), the Archon's Forge which was a horde-style arena event, and a few new public events that gave you a fuckin' badass flaming axe to fight with!

 

The strikes were siva-fied versions of Sepiks Prime (complete with revamped theme tune no less), The Shadow Thief (Taniks + Siva), The will of Crota (Omnigul returns, somehow), The Nexus (The relic from Vault of Glass included), The abomination Heist (now with a new route to the boss, and added Siva) and The Wretched Eye (that strike everyone hated when it was the nightfall!) - thats a lot of strikes that were either new or revamped versions of vanilla/TTK strikes, and they were changed enough to make them worth running.

 

And thats without the raid. Oh man. The raid, with weapons that actually helped outside of the raid (bonus damage to Fallen), as well as in it, armour that did the same (arms made heavy ammo rain from Fallen enemies), a raid exotic weapon that was a pulse rifle that Destiny 2 could only dream of having....And then theres the last boss, and his soundtrack, that was so good they decided it had to be used in Iron Banner matches for Destiny 2.

 

Tenner more than CoO? I'd say that was money well spent!

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Gorf King

Gorf King

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This is just that thing again. That thing about people who never really invested in the endgame of D1, versus those who did. If you didn't do it in D1, you don't miss it in D2, or notice the difference in quality between the two. For many people - usually the game's biggest fans - the endgame of Destiny was the whole point: the risible in-campaign story has always been tertiary to the experience. (And in D1, the actual story was in the lore, which has been almost entirely expunged from D2.)

 

None of that endgame content - including the great raid in RoI - is really the point though. The point is that in D2 the whole progression system has been gutted and handed over to the Eververse franchise for which you either make microtransactions or perform meaningless low-level grinding for cosmetic engrams. There's little to no point in replaying the endgame itself much even if you enjoy the content (Leviathan 1, boak) - which in a progression/loot-based game is a fatal flaw. There's no real customisation of characters - the abilities and perks trees are all denunded to virtually nothing. The weapons system is far more restrictive. Abilities and supers don't charge quickly enough, making you feel far less powerful. The whole endgame encounter systems - such as the revive tokens/team wipe on single death - actively discourage individual feats of skill or 'heroic moments'. The mystery and secrets have been removed from the endgame, replaced by embarrassing chipper one-liners and snarky teenage cartoon characters encouraging you to 'kick alien butt'. The endgame story makes no sense. The endgame rewards don't either. There just doesn't seem any point to it all.

 

Destiny 1 felt like a badly flawed but sometimes truly great attempt to do something genuinely exciting and new with the FPS - to marry it to the MMO and make a truly grand, persistent online adventure but with great combat mechanics. (For those who mourn the loss of the individual you vs AI moments of Halo CE, you should try out what replaced it in D1 and see why that wouldn't work - and what replaced it was the team-based encounters in raids and equally tough, intricate battles.) The weakest part of that experiment was always the 'campaign' and the story stuff, and the strongest was the raids, the secrets, the hidden missions, the lore, the depth that increased once you looked under the surface gameplay and dug into the mechanics and harder content properly. With D2 it feels like they've just given up on that altogether, beefed up the cutscenes for the campaign, and ditched all the depth of the endgame. The 'raid lair' in Curse of Osiris looks to be easily the best thing about it - and fits the Destiny universe far better than the abomination that was the Leviathan raid - but it is the shortest 'raid experience' yet, and the rewards are again basically cosmetic - the loot pool for weapons is mainly the same as in Leviathan vanilla. And it's still all token-based, with no raid perks, no power increases, and again even all the really good cosmetic stuff is reserved for Eververse.

 

D2 has a great deal more structural and incentive problems to deal with before you can even compare the value of the actual gameplay to D1's and come to a fair comparison. But I've not met anyone yet who actually played the endgame of D1 with any vigour who prefers in any way, shape or form D2's. Sure, if all you want to do is log on and do some patrols, strikes and public events, you may well prefer D2. After all, if all you're interested in is the feel of the gunplay you might as well do that. But then, Bungie might as well go back to making a straight shooter if it's only going to be about the feel of the gunplay. As an RPG/persistent online co-op looter, Destiny 2 is an absolute fucking disaster.

 

And the oddest thing of all is they've actually managed to slightly fuck up the gunplay too. If you don't think they have, just go back and do a few strikes from D1 for an hour or two. And honestly tell me the combat in those non-endgame situations isn't tighter, more fluid and more satisfying compared to D2's.

 

Personally speaking, if Bungie return to making a trad shooter I'll miss the epic feeling that I used to get from those amazing raid moments with six-person fireteams in D1, and the super clutch stuff we sometimes used to pull off in those and in missions like the Black Spindle one - and gear like the Black Spindle itself - and all the rest of the top-quality endgame experiences that made ploughing through the mediocre campaigns worthwhile. I'll miss the customisation and the RPG elements, and playing around with all the different setups for my characters, and trying to put a synergy together in a fireteam. But I wouldn't miss Destiny 2 at all, because it has none of those things.

 

If you just want to play story missions or strikes on heroic, Bungie might as well just make for you an online co-op shooter with a strong campaign and add some modifiers to make these encounters replayable with a little bit of variety. But that's really not what Destiny was. That was just the early-mid game. In Destiny 2, it feels like there's nothing beyond that early-mid game of any real value. If they can't radically change direction and make this a satisfying, deep online RPG, with proper lore and customisation and reward structures and all the rest of it - as well as a shooter - they may as well not bother. And I get the feeling they've come to the same conclusion themselves. A once-through half-arsed story told through some cutscenes, and a few repayable strikes with the mobs' health turned up a bit just doesn't cut it. Which is all, I suspect, some people got out of Destiny 1. But it really wasn't about that at all for most of the people who actually loved playing it. It was about the grandeur and challenge of the stuff that kept us up at night figuring out the best way to get through the epic journeys of the raids and in the hope of finding something game-changing at the end of those journeys. Not just grinding some public events for another bright engram so we can do the selfie emote. Which seems to be all the focus of Destiny 2 really is, with the occasional raid lair sop thrown to people who bought into the '10-year journey' bullshit.

 

Fuck Destiny 2.

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dreamylittledream

dreamylittledream

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56 minutes ago, Mr Ben said:

The campaign wasnt the best, but it was made by the B team and fairly quickly as well to fill the gap until Destiny 2. Plaguelands added an entire patrol area, including changes to the Cosmodrome (snow for one), the Archon's Forge which was a horde-style arena event, and a few new public events that gave you a fuckin' badass flaming axe to fight with!

 

The strikes were siva-fied versions of Sepiks Prime (complete with revamped theme tune no less), The Shadow Thief (Taniks + Siva), The will of Crota (Omnigul returns, somehow), The Nexus (The relic from Vault of Glass included), The abomination Heist (now with a new route to the boss, and added Siva) and The Wretched Eye (that strike everyone hated when it was the nightfall!) - thats a lot of strikes that were either new or revamped versions of vanilla/TTK strikes, and they were changed enough to make them worth running.

 

And thats without the raid. Oh man. The raid, with weapons that actually helped outside of the raid (bonus damage to Fallen), as well as in it, armour that did the same (arms made heavy ammo rain from Fallen enemies), a raid exotic weapon that was a pulse rifle that Destiny 2 could only dream of having....And then theres the last boss, and his soundtrack, that was so good they decided it had to be used in Iron Banner matches for Destiny 2.

 

Tenner more than CoO? I'd say that was money well spent!

 

I'm not sure we entirely disagree here - I did enjoy Rise of Iron (played it for a good couple of months before I drifted away) but compared to TTK it was a bit lazy (mainly remixed strikes, a return to a campaign by numbers) and some nice little changes (I did love Archon's Forge - D2 badly misses not having any horde style mode) and yeah those axe's were great.  However the raid aside I can't say it added a huge amount to keep the experience ticking over.

 

I just don't think CoO is poor - it should have added more yes, but what it does add is good - if you like D2 - I guess maybe the issue is ultimately a lot of people don't really massively care for the late game of D2 - which I understand - but there's a massive amount of game here to enjoy before you get the end of the end game.  What we have now is never going to keep people hooked for years or even months on end - or really between content drops but there's going to be ten of hours of play in this for me and for the price of the expansion pass I don't really feel thats poor value.

 

So yeah I like Destiny 2 - I also liked Destiny and the way I played both the games I don't really find the sequel an abomination but happy to accept people;s mileage varies on these things 

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Phelan

Phelan

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Posted
3 hours ago, K said:

I feel like I'm the only person on here who liked the DLC. I thought it was great - a heroic strike playlist, a new location, heroic adventures, and a decent campaign. There's room for improvement - the Infinite Forest feels like it was intended to be a kind of chalice dungeon, and it would be amazing if you could enter a kind of heroic / legendary version with friends for rare gear - but I like what's there. The new strike is ACE.

Nope, I'm with you. Some mates and I did the Nightfall last night with 6.26 on the clock and finally got Rat King which was ace. Tense, great teamwork and fun shooting.

 

I'm really enjoying the content especially for the fact it cost the equivalent of going to the cinema and getting some snacks.

Plus I grabbed an amazing submachine gun called the Arcanada or something and it is basically an MP7 and so much fun to use. They nail the guns so well.

 

Did Calus with the team on Sunday morning for four hours and didn't complete it and got a tad annoyed at how bad luck can wipe you rather than a lack of skill.

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Kryptonian

Kryptonian

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Posted

I got a 14 kill streak in crucible yesterday with the laser! Definitely not overpowered.

 

Joking aside, I wonder what the bug is? I was thinking it might be to do with it acting like an auto rifle for infusing when it’s actually a trace rifle. I’ll be interested to find out. If they tell us.

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Wickedkitten

Wickedkitten

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Kryptonian said:

I got a 14 kill streak in crucible yesterday with the laser! Definitely not overpowered.

 

Joking aside, I wonder what the bug is? I was thinking it might be to do with it acting like an auto rifle for infusing when it’s actually a trace rifle. I’ll be interested to find out. If they tell us.

 

Nah, you infuse Coldheart with auto rifles as well. I think it's the DPS on it that is a bug.

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HarryBizzle

HarryBizzle

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Posted

Just finished watching that Skill Up review. I thought it was very good and explained well so someone like me who never played Destiny 1 can understand the complaints.

 

I find a lot of it baffling. Destiny 2 seems to remove so much and doesn't replace it with anything.

 

 

I might of missed something so apologies if this is wrong - but was he saying that for Masterworks you have to do 20-60 public events? People have been grinding the hell out of them for months and now Bungie think the thing that's supposed to fix the loot progression is to force you to do even more of the things? Is there anyone who isn't completely sick of them yet?

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Hexx

Hexx

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Posted
6 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I might of missed something so apologies if this is wrong - but was he saying that for Masterworks you have to do 20-60 public events? People have been grinding the hell out of them for months and now Bungie think the thing that's supposed to fix the loot progression is to force you to do even more of the things? Is there anyone who isn't completely sick of them yet?

 

That's for new "Forged" guns you make (up to 3 a week I think). They're basically reskins of existing guns based on reviews

 

You're talking about "masterworks" which is when you obtain a weapon there's a "chance" it'll drop as the upgraded Masterwork version (some activities, like the raid, have higher chances) which is a very small stat boost. Masterworks aren't in the game yet - that's this week IIRC

 

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K

K

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Posted

The laser parties are fun, but it gets a bit dull just being lasered every few seconds. It feels a bit like a stag weekend - fun at first, but by sunday evening, I just want it all to stop. Also, I lost every single game I played. Fuck lasers. 

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Kryptonian

Kryptonian

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Posted

I bought destiny 2 and the expansion for the Xbox and play it on my home/primary console. My son has played the campaign no problem but can’t access Curse of Osiris at all, any idea what might be wrong?

 

If Bungie have changed something so that all users have to buy it on a console I’ll be cross! Although that’s against Microsoft’s policy I think?

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HarryBizzle

HarryBizzle

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Hexx said:

 

That's for new "Forged" guns you make (up to 3 a week I think). They're basically reskins of existing guns based on reviews

 

You're talking about "masterworks" which is when you obtain a weapon there's a "chance" it'll drop as the upgraded Masterwork version (some activities, like the raid, have higher chances) which is a very small stat boost. Masterworks aren't in the game yet - that's this week IIRC

 

 

Ah, okay. Still completely and utterly mental, then.

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Gigga

Gigga

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Kryptonian said:

I bought destiny 2 and the expansion for the Xbox and play it on my home/primary console. My son has played the campaign no problem but can’t access Curse of Osiris at all, any idea what might be wrong?

 

If Bungie have changed something so that all users have to buy it on a console I’ll be cross! Although that’s against Microsoft’s policy I think?

 

I've answered this in ATF but I thought I'd put it here too.

 

There are individual downloads for the expansions that you have to download to the xbox. They didn't appear in "Ready to download" - I had to go to the store and download them. Once I did that all accounts could access the curse of osiris, but before I downloaded them I could access it without them on the account that bought it.

 

 

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Kryptonian

Kryptonian

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Posted
2 hours ago, Gaz said:

 

I've answered this in ATF but I thought I'd put it here too.

 

There are individual downloads for the expansions that you have to download to the xbox. They didn't appear in "Ready to download" - I had to go to the store and download them. Once I did that all accounts could access the curse of osiris, but before I downloaded them I could access it without them on the account that bought it.

 

 

 

Outstanding, thank you

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  • Uncle Mike changed the title to Destiny 2: Lightfall

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