Destiny 2: Lightfall

[Wickedkitten]

One person bought the version with the season pass and we fell over like dominos because friends don't let friends destiny alone. Still wish they would get rid of that fucking token system, but it's not as bad as I thought it would be.

[Kevvy Metal]

9 minutes ago, Captain LeChuck said:

Where in Gorf King's quote does he say he played the expansion? He's talking about D2 as a whole. 

 

Fuck sake. I’ve editted it now. That’s what I meant. 

[Shimmyhill]

1 hour ago, Wickedkitten said:

One person bought the version with the season pass and we fell over like dominos because friends don't let friends destiny alone. Still wish they would get rid of that fucking token system, but it's not as bad as I thought it would be.

 

I’m annoyed I went digital on Destiny 2 but really glad I didn’t go for the expansion pass, I don’t think any of my ‘main’ Destiny playing chums bar Kit have played it and they all own the DLC - it really is Division levels of drop off.

 

I wonder what it would take to get me back now, if it suddenly became the game Destiny was to me then of course I would be tempted but I think I’m enjoying so many other games I don’t think I have time to play it.

[HarryBizzle]

2 hours ago, Gorf King said:

That's where the focus of the game is, not on rewarding content per se. Not on feeling like you've genuinely triumphed or progressed. TTK was almost the polar opposite, with quest after quest that had lots of different levels of challenge, secrets, tons of lore, and rewarded with some game-changing power levels and equipment.

 

I have to say, the lack of any real lore in the game seems absolutely crazy when they've gone to such lengths elsewhere. It's like they heard all the people complaining about the grimoire cards and said "okay, we won't do that then," and then didn't replace it with anything else. The game just feels hollow and you've got this bizarre little bit of text with each exotic which does nothing except make you wish there was more.

[Mr Ben]

4 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I have to say, the lack of any real lore in the game seems absolutely crazy when they've gone to such lengths elsewhere. It's like they heard all the people complaining about the grimoire cards and said "okay, we won't do that then," and then didn't replace it with anything else. The game just feels hollow and you've got this bizarre little bit of text with each exotic which does nothing except make you wish there was more.

Yeah, I honestly think the loss of Joe Staten hasnt helped in the lore department. I think he may have been the one behind most of the grimoire and the lore it contained, and Bungie have more or less pieced together what he left behind when he left, and cobbled it together into the grimoire. The Books of Sorrow were likely something that was going to be in the original story of the game, before Bungie/Activision scrapped what he'd done and gave us what we actually got, as we were supposed to go to the Dreadnaught in the vanilla game, to rescue Rasputin.

 

Having a bit of story on exotics and our Ghost say some rubbish lines when scanning something does not even come close to any of the lore in the original game.

[Shimmyhill]

Getting rid of Dinklebot was the beginning of the end I tell thee!

[Phelan]

38 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

Getting rid of Dinklebot was the beginning of the end I tell thee!

I actually miss Dinklebot. I find Northbot dry as a bone.

[NecroMorrius]

Almost all content of interest is now locked behind a dlc paywall. Six weeks after it came out on PC. I'm so done. Fool me once... 

 

 

[Janski]

DLC on the whole is pretty meh, it's just pure filler. 

 

Any sane person couldn't look at what's on offer and decide to fork out for it as a one off purchase and I'm thinking we've all been had (again!) with the expansion pass.

 

D2 is the only full price game I've bought digitally on release and I'm super disappointed

[Nate Dogg III]

This is not especially well timed.

 

https://careers.bungie.com/en-us/careers/game-design/938163/senior-progression-designer---live

 

RESPONSIBILITIES

Create sustainable player progression and chase through Destiny 2’s Bright Engram

Work closely with our Live leadership team to craft a long-term vision for the Eververse and its presence in the Destiny IP

Work closely with our Live product manager to analyze key performance indicators to inform design

Design and implement new features and systems with an eye on engagement, retention, and monetization

Use data and design sensibilities to define strategies for maintaining ideal engagement patterns and maximizing player satisfaction

Work with Destiny 2 leadership to help define a cohesive monetization experience across multiple expansions and seasons

Manage the creative and craft growth of Progression designers on the Eververse team and help establish a strong design culture

[Kevvy Metal]

9 hours ago, Janski said:

DLC on the whole is pretty meh, it's just pure filler. 

 

Any sane person couldn't look at what's on offer and decide to fork out for it as a one off purchase and I'm thinking we've all been had (again!) with the expansion pass.

 

D2 is the only full price game I've bought digitally on release and I'm super disappointed

 

What?! Did you even play the same campaign as me? It was superb and probably took longer to play through than all of OSDT. 

Because you’re generally shooting at the same enemies? Literally all of Destiny is like that. This gave it great context with a tight campaign situated in gorgeous environments. That alone is worth more than the entrance fee. 

 

The one one thing that made me go “eh?” are the new Engrams in the Eververse. I’ve been in Mario land the last while and this has passed me by. They’re pushing players more into micro transactions? That’s some bullshit right there. 

[V3zna]

VG247 Review

 

I thought this was a pretty good read.

[Oz]

1 hour ago, Nate Dogg III said:

This is not especially well timed.

 

https://careers.bungie.com/en-us/careers/game-design/938163/senior-progression-designer---live

 

 

 

So they sacked the progression designer?

[RubberJohnny]

1 hour ago, Nate Dogg III said:

This is not especially well timed.

 

https://careers.bungie.com/en-us/careers/game-design/938163/senior-progression-designer---live

 

Someone was saying the increasingly wacky characters and writing were an attempt to lower the average age, combined with this it's a game to get kids hooked on gambling.

 

Grim.

[Harsin]

Jason Schrier has been hinting in stories that Bungie isn't a particularly happy ship to serve on at the moment and that's kind of backed up by some recent stuff on Glassdoor. The recent Crucible podcast also apparently hinted at conflict between teams over decisions such as the two primaries and a power system. His book on game development showed that the development of Destiny 1 was marred by lots of big ego clashes and conflicting visions I get the feeling that's still the case. I wonder if the much vaunted 700 person team is more of a hindrance than a help, I can imagine it's a nightmare getting decisions made if it has to go through umpteen units with leaders with their own agendas. In fact everytime a publisher/developer crows about the sheer number of people working on a game it rarely results in a better quality product - Exhibit A - Assassin's Creed 3.

[Nate Dogg III]

The vibe was definitely different when I went out there in July but I just figured it was because they were closing up the game and it was a difficult time. I do wonder now, though.

 

There was a line in one of the blog posts a month or two back when they mentioned they'd started thinking about 'the future beyond Destiny' or something along those lines. I don't think they're ever going to hit their original vision for it, and D2 feels more and more like a game they made for Activision, rather than themselves. Wouldn't surprise me if they let D2 follow the same path as D1 – a TTK-style thing next September, a free update after that – and then that'll be it. We won't get Destiny 3, because it's just got too much baggage, and we'll get something else instead.

 

It seems wrong to me that you've got 700 people in that studio and only one game on the go. It's not healthy for staff, if nothing else. 

[K]

The way that D2 sticks exactly to the template of D1 would seem to support that - I would have thought more of the loose ends from D1 would have been picked up in D2, i.e. space vehicles, more ground vehicles, the Darkness, etc, but there's nothing really new. I'd have said that it smacked more of consolidation than a contractual obligation, Bungie wanting to build a stable base rather than overreach again, but they already had that with the Taken King.

[RubberJohnny]

Yes, I really don't see how this "D2 + expansion, then D3 + expansion" plan is workable. Maybe it'd work if they'd actually get the time off to sort out their engine/management and make a fresh start, but it seems they aren't really allowed to, they've got to stick to that $500 million contract that promised wildly overambitious yearly expansions plus multiple smaller content drops within each year.

 

So much of D2 is dated leftovers - remember when everyone thought it was going to be open-world zones with settlements? And then no it's, literally the EDZ that was supposed to be in Vanilla, and IO is apparently a reused Mars zone from TTK. In fact all the zones still feature this "corridor/arena/corridor" structure that feels like it was designed to fit in the PS3's 512MB of RAM, despite us being four years into the current generation. I expect the expansion will be the finished TTK Europa Enceladus zone mentioned in the old Kotaku article.

[Gigga]

Getting in bed with Activision was always going to be detrimental to Bungie realising their ambitions.

 

It's not like we should be surprised that they disappoint people though, do you remember how bad the campaign was in Halo 2? That stupid little shop of horrors plant thing? Even HALO:CE just made you go back out the way you came in so they only had to build half a game.

 

Nothing they have put out has ever felt properly finished, it's all rushed endings and compromises, and they have tied themselves up with a publisher who were known for being controlling.

 

It really does feel like D2 is mostly D1 leftovers and re-skinned areas, which wouldn't seem like such a problem if they hadn't jettisoned all of the original game's content and weapons to bring in this stupid new system.

 

 

 

[JPL]

@Nate Dogg III I do wonder how much of this is Activision’s doing. Bungie are one of the best devs out there and I can’t remember them having problems like this when they were stuck into Halo.

[Shimmyhill]

It feels like Bungie had a grand vision and were aiming for the (wizard from the) moon and while they maybe didn’t quite get there in the first game Activision have said they need to aim far lower and make some money, seems they got closer to Clacton and ran out of diesel.

[Harsin]

You can see how much Activision may be responsible as the contract between them and Bungie is out there for all to see. To b honest as tempting as it is to think it’s all big bad Activision keeping down the plucky devs, I don’t think that’s necessarily the case here.

 

The fact they’ve actively removed content from people who bought the game 3 months ago is getting reported on various game sites now.

 

Here’s a quote from Luke Smith in September 2015.

 

Quote

The frustration is not surprising to us ... I think we didn't do a great job of explaining [locking content behind DLC] ahead of time, and in fact needed to do a better job ... we also haven't done a great job explaining what is content players own.

[instasis]

Ultimately, their ten year vision was set out before F2P, loot boxes and monetization all kicked in so now they're having to shoe horn in stuff to satisfy suits. On top of that, Bungie have consistently struggled to deliver their overall vision for a game (christ, some of the stuff I read about for the original Halo was mindblowing open world consistency type stuff) and end up compromising for their final release. When they've done purposefully smaller in scope releases post Halo:CE (arguably ODST and TTK) they've nailed it.

 

But, y'know, now my number is whirring around again and engrams are dropping at bigger numbers I'm all over this again.

[Hexx]

34 minutes ago, Harsin said:

You can see how much Activision may be responsible as the contract between them and Bungie is out there for all to see. To b honest as tempting as it is to think it’s all big bad Activision keeping down the plucky devs, I don’t think that’s necessarily the case here.

 

The fact they’ve actively removed content from people who bought the game 3 months ago is getting reported on various game sites now.

 

Here’s a quote from Luke Smith in September 2015.

 

 

3 months? About 5-6 weeks on PC

 

And that assumes people bought at launch

[mushashi]

4 hours ago, Nate Dogg III said:

It seems wrong to me that you've got 700 people in that studio and only one game on the go. It's not healthy for staff, if nothing else. 

 

Isn't this purely self-inflicted though? When they were owned by Microsoft, they didn't have the manpower to do anything but Halo and canned other projects to keep that production line going.

 

Then they bought back their freedom and decided on their vaunted 10 year plan to make their next blockbuster, growing their company in the process to support this vision, which has gotten to the point of needing Activision owned developers to make content and do ports for it too as they still don't have enough staff to do it on their own. They didn't have to make Destiny, they chose to make it, and for a decade at least no less. People like blaming the publisher for most of these decisions, but in this particular case, it would seem to fall mostly on the developer.

[Kryptonian]

The locking stuff behind DLC really annoys me. I have the expansion but the idea of this paywall and the fact someone somewhere in the company has gone along with it really irritates.

 

There’s a whole other argument about DLC this soon after release too.

[auntyclimax]

The new raid goes live on Friday. I'm really looking forward to jumping in (albeit next week).

 

Do we know the recommended power?

[Mr Ben]

I didnt post this yesterday, as the thread is pretty negative already, but the Legend of Acrius Exotic shotgun is now locked behind the dlc as well, due to the quest to get it having to run a 300 power level strike that was originally prestige level. That's now been increased to 330, so those without the dlc cant get it without paying. No word if this is a bug or not from Bungie as yet.

 

 

[Harsin]

Let’s see if the new transparent Bungie with a commitment to actively engaging with its audience addresses any of this in tonight’s weekly update or if it’s just marketing fluff.

[Nate Dogg III]

Man, this is a lonely old time. The heroic adventures are pretty tough and I figured I’d call in some help, opened my friends list and... nothing. Absolutely nothing. 

 

What a sad fall from grace.