Destiny 2: Lightfall

[V3zna]

It’s been over two weeks at least since I’ve played Destiny 2 and I have no reason to play until the expansion on the 5th December. 

 

Which I have no current intention of buying as PUBG is out a week later and will clearly take over my life.

 

Destiny 1 was cool as it’s the only game I wanted to play. It was nice having no other distractions and be settled for once with only one game I truly wanted to play. 

[Weavus]

47 minutes ago, Captain LeChuck said:

#toughfuckingtitties

 

At least Bungie will have made sure you won't be troubled with any fun while playing it.

[Larsen B]

Just play it for 3 hours, 2 nights a week like they want you to. They're giving you your life back.

 

Hail Bungo!

[Gorf King]

1 hour ago, K said:

It's especially weird as the idea of getting less XP and fewer drops for doing things in quick succession is the precise opposite of how lots of game mechanics work. It's like an anti-combo. Having hidden mechanics that work against the player is  poor; it's only cosmetic stuff, so it's hardly game-breaking, but it's still pretty underhand.

 

The bigger problem, which puts this into context, is that the game's rewards past the basic levelling curve are only cosmetic stuff, apart from the exotics that the game showers you with (inc countless duplicates). All the raid gear is basically cosmetic, the Prestige and raid challenge rewards are cosmetic, the IB gear is cosmetic - like the raid stuff, there's no perks or stats there you can't get on gear that drops in the most trivial of content. There are no extra light/power levels to be had, no actual progression to be made, and certainly no game-changing drops to be lusted after. The whole game is structured around cosmetic rewards. So when on top of that Bungie hide a mechanism for retarding your acquisition of these cosmetics behind hidden cooldowns and lockouts they're keeping what little endgame rewards there are from people who grind the game while encouraging them to just buy them with cash instead. Because the endgame is only cosmetic.

 

The whole structure of the game stinks, and it's quite deliberate. Which is why I don't agree this is a result of them 'running out of time' or that it's easily fixable. Same as the baffling changes to PvP which have resulted in some of the most popular streamers more or less giving up on the game (it used to be great to watch some of the most skilled guys play; now it's like watching paint dry). Same with the complete stripping of decent lore from the game and its replacement by a few piddling in-game text descriptions and some snarky cutscenes and voiceovers. These aren't minor issues that cropped up in development. They're baked in to the product deliberately, and they won't be undone quickly, if at all. This is very much a cut-down version of Destiny 1 with the depth and interest removed, and that is by design. The first game's failings never failed to hide its ambition and promise; here in D2 they reveal a lack of both.

 

Unfortunately, like most of us here, I bought the full DLC set in advance on the basis of the promise (and the actual achievements) of D1, with a degree of faith that D2, whatever its changes, would build on the strengths of D1. It's fairly apparent by now that vanilla D2 is a game that's abandoned many of the key tenets of D1, and it and the DLC have firmly refocussed on selling trinkets to an audience who log on for a couple of hours a week and don't want to be troubled by anything vaguely rpg or mmo-like, who don't want to have to do troubling stuff like raids to get the best gear, who don't want their PvP to deviate too much from the PvP of other shooters. Great if you're that person, crap if you valued Destiny for being unlike other shooters and hoped for the game to get deeper over time, not shallower. Lootboxes and Eververse have taken the place of meaningful rewards, and grinding XP in trivial events is now scandalised by the revelation that XP acquisition is slowed down by sleight of hand because ultimately that's all there is to the game - just collecting a bunch of bright engrams for saucy emotes that you can just buy anyway if you want to skip the grind.

 

I can't get a refund on the DLC, but I can give Bungie some data about player satisfaction with the new direction they've chosen for the game. I can do that by not downloading or playing it, and see just how much impact that data about player loss, which they are so fond of citing, has on their future plans. If it doesn't work, I won't be buying any more Destiny releases, but at least I'll have saved the time I would otherwise have wasted on what has turned out to be a deeply unsatisfying product. I won't make the mistake of continuing to play a fundamentally cynical and empty product simply because I've already bought it and can't return it. That would be just throwing valuable time away on top of the cash that's already been wasted. And I really do think this is an awful (and also quite dishonest) product, miles away from the intentions that originally lay behind Destiny. I also feel that not everyone in Bungie will be happy with the direction the game has taken, and I reckon there's a bit of trouble going on internally while this all plays out (the streams they used to do were infinitely more entertaining, confident and engaging than the muted, unengaged and uninspiring stuff they turn out now - it feels like the hosts are performing under duress, and there's never a whiff of a live audience or a community representative with them). So I'm hoping those within Bungie who are opposed to the series' current direction can use the kind of ammunition that might be provided by data showing players aren't bothering to engage with new releases that are simply more of the same, albeit that (like vanilla D2) they're got an attractive front-end and are being oversold as some sort of epic adventure rather than the thinly-disguised cosmetic loot box generator they in fact are.

 

Which is why I've now deleted D2 and won't be downloading, let alone playing, the Osiris release. If anyone who does play it discovers that it magically doesn't resemble at all what they've shown and gives us back a game with imagination, challenge, depth and surprise, let me know and I'll do a grateful reinstall. We can pretend this whole sorry episode never happened. But I won't be holding my breath, and I refuse to be part of the problem that I'm sure is killing what to me was the most promising new game series of the past few years. So in the meantime, all I can do is not play along with their game.

[V3zna]

I’ve noticed the same in regard to some high profile Destiny streamers. Often when I’ve checked them out on Twitch they are playing Fortnite instead.

[df0]

You know you done fucked up when Destiny apologist Gorf is tired of this game.

[Gorf King]

4 minutes ago, df0 said:

You know you done fucked up when Destiny apologist Gorf is tired of this game.

 

Cute. You don't get out much, do you?

[Padaxes]

I really enjoy it briefly when I log in and get my one evening out of it each week. And I actually enjoy the pvp, but I've never played D1.

 

But there is instantly nothing left to do, unless you have a group of 6 to play with, which we never get. Annoyingly we often get 4 then if you want to do nightfall one guy loses is out. It seems a really odd bunch of design decisions. 

 

I'm enjoying the depth of warframe, but wish it had the solid gunplay and AI of Destiny.  If you could combine the two games you'd have a real winner. As it is neither are really working for me in the way they should be.

[df0]

2 minutes ago, Gorf King said:

 

Cute. You don't get out much, do you?

I do now. All that indoor-time I reserved for Destiny 2 is now spend outdoors.

 

I meant no harm Gorf, just some Friday after work banter.

[Gorf King]

By 'out' I meant 'reading this thread'.

 

Obviously there is no such thing as an 'outdoors'. It's just an empty shell designed to sell you DLC such as cars and houses. Best avoided.

[Broker]

This is the first week since I bought it I hadn’t done my milestones an Tuesday or Wednesday. I’d forgotten it was Iron Banner, but my hunter didn’t get any of the armour last time so I spent the evening doing call to send on all three characters and as many of the daily challenges as I could be bothered with (hunter supers are shite in PvP). 

 

Just handed in 95 tokens. No Iron Banner armour whatsoever. 

[Broker]

 

[Mr Ben]

That's an old review (its 2 months old), and Skill Up barely plays Destiny 2 anymore. It simply said everything a few of us here were saying back only a few weeks after launch, so I wont repeat them. Laymen Gaming is more or less his main channel now, and he presents it with his brother. They've covered a few Destiny things there (the XP thing being the latest topic).

 

I'm not going to bother watching next weeks stream, as they are a massive waste of time. I'll read Reddits views on it, and decide what to do, which will likely be to uninstall, as that's the only thing I can do to tell Bungie they done fucked up.

[df0]

Also, give Warframe a chance.

[Nate Dogg III]

Acknowledged the XP thing and deactivated it with immediate effect: https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/46494

 

I mean, okay, that’s quick, fair enough. But how do you run a live service for almost three months without noticing that something is seriously wrong?

[Hexx]

Incredibly disingenuous message there - if you’re that concerned about equalising XP players earn for different activities actual scale the numbers - not make the UI lie to people

[Harsin]

They had a system that was actively lying to players in what it communicated with them (I don’t believe for a nanosecond it was an error) whilst at the same time selling items (that could be obtained by real money) that promised to boost XP. Whilst I’m not sure they’ve done anything wrong legally it’s shady as all fuck.

[Shimmyhill]

I flip flopped between getting this or not after finding the beta to be a pile of shite but like an idiot I bought the digital version so can’t sell on the disc, I did however not get the DLC so I have that positive to console myself with.

 

I still think Bungo are getting let off far too easily in micro transaction back lash land and the cynical reversal of the XP hold back should get as much exposure as EA are under from all the shite they have - not on the same scale of pay to win but it’s down right disgraceful behaviour and further evidence that vide games of this nature need regulation.

 

I haven’t bought Battlefront 2 because of the clear pay to win gambiling based system designed to bleed you dry but as a Starwars and Battlefield fan it’s hard to not want to play the game as it’s meant to be good but one has to stay strong and vote with my wallet to show publishers this is not acceptable - frankly at this point I am far more likely to blow 40 quid on Fortnite in game currency than ever buying a Destiny DLC or game ever again - Bungo need to start owning the disaster that Destiny 2 is becoming.

[Mr Ben]

7 minutes ago, Harsin said:

They had a system that was actively lying to players in what it communicated with them (I don’t believe for a nanosecond it was an error) whilst at the same time selling items (that could be obtained by real money) that promised to boost XP. Whilst I’m not sure they’ve done anything wrong legally it’s shady as all fuck.

Its just damage control, as they dont need anymore bad press because their game is tanking enough as it is.

 

Wouldnt be surprised to see this highlighted on some youtube channels and game news sites tomorrow, though. Reddit will have a field day with it.

[Gorf King]

2 hours ago, df0 said:

Also, give Warframe a chance.

 

Did that in the summer. Not for me, to the extent that I don't understand why people suggest it as an alternative. Whatever their faults, Destiny 1 or 2 have a great-feeling combat loop at their core, and for me Warframe simply doesn't. Also, it's the grindiest game possible to the extent that you simply can't get everything you want (that actually affects your gameplay) without shelling out cash for it. Not a model I want Destiny to follow, and not one that's attractive to me. I get why people might like it, but it's not really a Destiny alternative for people disenchanted with Destiny. 

 

I just want an experience like Vault of Glass or King's Fall again, where your effort and skill are rewarded with amazing rewards and that feeling of total satisfaction that only the best online games can provide. Sadly, I ain't going to get that anywhere else soon. And certainly not from Warframe. 

[Mr Ben]

6 hours ago, Nate Dogg III said:

Acknowledged the XP thing and deactivated it with immediate effect: https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/46494

 

I mean, okay, that’s quick, fair enough. But how do you run a live service for almost three months without noticing that something is seriously wrong?

TLDR - Bungie either lied (likely, I dont care if you think I'm being cynical here), its bugged, or they've removed the cooldown but halved XP gains.

 

Also this weeks stream has been uploaded to youtube and its got far more downvotes than upvotes. Which is a shame, as it was quite funny.

[ph0rce]

9 hours ago, df0 said:

Also, give Warframe a chance.

 

This,  a million times this. 

 

I gave up on Destiny a week or so before the challenge mode dropped & for reasons I honestly can’t remember now, I downloaded Warframe.

 

Turns out that was the best gaming decision I’ve made this year, the game is amazing & ticks nearly all my Destiny 1-related boxes that I’d been missing:

 

Drop in / drop out support for up to four players ( six for some of the end game stuff ). 

A real Mod System, for weapons & classes ( or frames as the game calls them ), with near infinite possibilities. 

A large number of classes / frames, all with unique abilities. 

Companions to assist you in battle, I currently have an enourmous bat-dog helping me out. 

Space / underwater missions with a jet pack ( these may or may not be a bit shit, but hey, jet packs ). 

Various different mission types, timed alert missions with rare rewards, multiple daily ‘Nightfall-esque’ Nightmare missions, with modifiers. 

Faction support, with consequences / rewards. 

A number of proper story quests to do. 

Not that I’m there yet, but it also has end game content in the form of raids & other things. 

 

Also, the information screens tell me that there’s a whole multiplayer game mode somewhere as well. 

 

Plus they’ve just added an enourmous update involving their first open environment, Plains of Eidolon. 

 

 

All for zero pounds & zero pence, which is just staggering. 

 

 

It’s a bit laggy at times, the graphics aren’t as polished as Destiny but that’s bit-picking & the UI is a complete nightmare with limited explanation of features but if you can get past that ( and it isn’t that bad  ), there’s a hell of a game waiting for you. 

[macosx]

Just dropped back in here to see if I had need of any delayed remorse deleting mine a few weeks ago (yes I bought the expansions too), but as even Gorf has jumped ship from the leaking HMS Bungo, I shall remain guilt free. I had a fantastic few months on this though.

in short then; less fun, less weapons and now it seems sneakily less XP.  That hidden stuff is shameful when you are selling the items.

[Broker]

I turned in all the tokens I’d been saving, done until the 5th, unless by some miracle Xur is selling one of the three exotic pieces I’m missing next week. Will definitely check out CoO but I’m not expecting a lot of content really. I’ll  probably get my three guys to the new cap, check out Heroic strikes and stuff but I can’t see that lasting as long as the base game has then it’s out again until March or whenever the new expansion is out. Most of my friends I used to play with have moved on, my rllmuk friends don’t seem to be playing and even my kids have gotten bored and moved on to Fortnite. Such a wasted opportunity  

[Weavus]

11 hours ago, Nate Dogg III said:

I mean, okay, that’s quick, fair enough. But how do you run a live service for almost three months without noticing that something is seriously wrong?

 

It wasn't a bug, it was intentional and they got caught doing anti-consumer/fraudulent things to push their micro-transactions so they deactivated it before it turned into another EA/Battlefront. Notice how they don't apologise for the the system only that they are not happy with it now its been exposed for what it is/getting bad press coverage. Where was the testing/QA, where were the moral standards?

 

D2 pretty much proves they don't actually have any Destiny players working at Bungie anymore. I hope selling all those 'double xp' pop-tarts and bright engrams was worth fucking over their playerbase.

[RubberJohnny]

Yep, there are posts about the XP cooldown in this thread from weeks ago, but in the last day it started to get traction on gaming news sites as another Battlefront 2 style system, so immediately it gets a rushed change (that coincidentally reduces all the earn rates, just like Battlefront 2's response). In Gabe Newell's words:

 

Quote

One of the things we learned pretty early on is 'Don't ever, ever try to lie to the internet - because they will catch you. They will de-construct your spin. They will remember everything you ever say for eternity.'

 

[Gorf King]

Looks like they're wheeling out the big guns for next week in response to the fans' increasing rumblings of dissatisfaction and DeeJ's sweet moves failing to placate them.

 

 

Will it be enough to trigger a series of reinstalls? Maybe not, but it'll be worth watching.

[Harsin]

Most times Luke Smith addresses the community he puts an entire shoe shop in his mouth, so it should be entertaining at least.

[Nate Dogg III]

He’s also the best at explaining destiny in a bigger picture kind of way. He understands the game from both sides, both a designer and a player, and none of their other spokespeople can really do that. I think it’s the right thing to do and long overdue really. 

 

He won’t put his foot in his mouth because it’ll be so pre-planned, and I’m not sure he’ll tell people what they want to hear, necessarily. But I’d much rather hear pre-scripted luke explaining what’s going on with the game than pre-scripted anyone else. 

[df0]

We have been reading the feedback and appreciate all of it. We have been learning a lot over the past few months and are doing ort very best to make Destiny 2 live up to your expectations. And I am proud and excited to announce that we are introducing Gjallarhorn to Destiny 2! You all remember Gjallarhorn from Destiny 1 righ? It’s back! Remember Gjallarhorn? Remember? You can obtain it by sheer luck when you open loot boxes. Thanks for tuning in, and we’ll see you next time.