Destiny 2: Lightfall

[Gorf King]

Fun's obviously subjective. I think what's beyond dispute is that the new 4x4 format and smaller maps, along with the reduced abilities and lengthened cool downs, do as you say make the new Crucible a sweatier affair, far more centred around team shooting with primaries and, as you also said, a lot more like Halo. The trouble is, it'll never be enough like Halo for fans of Halo, and imo it'll never be as good at being Halo as Halo is.

 

It's got more of that stuff, but it has far less of the openness and flamboyance of Destiny 1's PvP at its best. You don't get the outrageous solo clutches anywhere near as much, if at all. The crazy super-fuelled rampages. The insane feats of sniping skill (which I could never pull off, but which the game always made me feel were possible, just out of reach).

 

The structural particulars of the revamped Control mode also make Iron Banner a less festive-feeling affair: it does just feel like quickplay but without Clash and Supremacy butting in. That and the tokens, which with their RNG packages feel more like a cashback store loyalty scheme than a series of progress-based rewards. In the last year of D1's Banner, you could clearly see the gear you were aiming for and at what rank you'd get it. You could pick and choose what you wanted. Here, it doesn't feel as if playing even a hundred hours will necessarily get me the armour I need. When it comes to people criticising 'grind', this is exactly the sort of thing that they should be criticising: it feels arbitrary and relatively unrewarding compared to last year's Iron Banner progression and rewards systems.

 

The feel and playstyle of the PvP itself is obviously a matter of taste, but I do know a lot of people who used to love Crucible because it was very different from other online shooters are now far less enamoured of it. Similarly, I guess people who hated D1's PvP now like it more because it's more like other offerings. I'm just not sure that being more like the competition is a good strategy for Bungie to follow in the long term, and even if it is, I'll be mourning the old 6v6 superpower-fuelled wide-open possibilities of D1's Control for some time to come, because for all its faults it was a unique form of FPS multiplayer that seems now to have lost its originality somewhat in an attempt to be more familiar and palatable to the market as a whole. It always felt like a multiplayer game for people who weren't crazy about other PvP multiplayer games - it was different, and now it's far less so. I don't think that's a great thing for the game, or for the market as a whole.

 

On MIDA - as I've always said, it isn't the problem. If there's a problem in gameplay terms, it's HCR, which Bungie have liberally scattered across lots of different gun archetypes. And a problem with the radar, which is nowhere near as snappy or persistent as D1's. The fact that MIDA posses both HCR and persistent radar is more a signal that these things are an issue and need fixing, rather than the gun itself is a unique problem. Uriel's and many other HCR guns are a similar issue, and if Bungie weren't trying to stealth-knobble the radar, MIDA (and Knucklehead) wouldn't be such a big deal - they'd be like they are in most of D1: just alternatives - and very good ones, for they are exotics after all - within a wide ranger of choices, rather than some sort of meta. But then, there are always metas and always will be. With Bungie's current focus on primary team shooting across mid-long lanes, with the occasional flanking manoeuvre in the second subteam of two (it's the same in every single game without any variation), it's no real surprise that an exotic scout rifle with persistent radar and great aim assist and flinch will rise to the top. Blame the game, not the player.

[wretcherd]

I find Supremacy and Survival much more fun, strategic, and with more dramatic comeback potential than Control.

 

With Nu Control, the difference to other domination gametypes is that it's actually all about the kills.

They're swaying the Clash Only crowd with Clash But With A Multiplier.

[Weavus]

I think I'm done with PvP in Destiny 2, I've tried to like it but I find I'm just not having fun with any of the game modes. 

[Gorf King]

Yeah, it's odd. I always rated Control as by far my favourite game type, way above the others. But now, like you, it's fallen to the bottom, of the quickplay types anyway - though I still don't get why these are 'quickplay' and the others are 'competitive'. I actually prefer Clash - and surprisingly, even Supremacy, which I never really liked that much. I think it might be because they (esp the latter) are so obviously about teaming up, roaming, and mowing down the enemy. So they seem better suited to a game that is essentially about that in all modes. I find the Control aspect more of a distraction than anything, but they all feel like only slightly different flavours of the same basic teamshooting approach. It doesn't feel very varied really. (That's another reason I liked D1's mixture of 6v6, 3v3, 2v2 and 1v1/many. Speaking of which, it's really weird having an online PvP shooter that doesn't have a variant of Rumble. One for the DLC, no doubt.)

[LiMuBai]

4 player rumble might be a bit lonely, but 8 player rumble? 

[Qazimod]

The games of control I played were just silly. People moving around as whole teams to the next unoccupied control point. Red captures A, Blue captures B, Red captures C, Blue captures A, Red captures B, Blue captures C, repeat. I'll stick with it for the rep I guess.  

 

EDIT: ha, missed @DC LEMON and @Shimmyhill making the same observation. And yes I did try to break from the herd mentality (I was in a fireteam with my brother so we were talking and planning all the time) but that doesn't stop everyone else...

[macosx]

You should disrupt as a lonewolf. Throws them off and gives the others time to cap the other flag.

[Mr Ben]

36 minutes ago, macosx said:

You should be able to disrupt as a lonewolf.

FTFY.

 

There's a lot about the new Crucible I dont like, but its all been said already.

 

I'd like to see the stats for games from bungies end though. Like how many are playing each game mode, how many solo queue (and how long they stay in the queue), what class (I'd be surprised if Striker wasnt the top subclass' being used by Titans in all game content right now), guns used etc.

[Broker]

You can easily disrupt that flow alone, just make some effort to think about what you’re doing. Much like the gun meta, the only thing forcing people to all act the same is their decision to copy each other. Hand cannons, 2v1s, not using persistent radar and weird guns are all viable, they just require you to try something new and stick with it, not go back to the meta the first time your own ideas don’t pan out.

[Jerec]

4 minutes ago, Broker said:

You can easily disrupt that flow alone, just make some effort to think about what you’re doing. Much like the gun meta, the only thing forcing people to all act the same is their decision to copy each other. Hand cannons, 2v1s, not using persistent radar and weird guns are all viable, they just require you to try something new and stick with it, not go back to the meta the first time your own ideas don’t pan out.

 

Maybe this works in a 4 player fireteam, but randoms playing together I dont believe that works, you go Solo trying to disrupt the opposite group and you will get cut to ribbons, then they capture the flag then move onto the remaining players with a +1 advantage and kill them.

[Oz]

check out this wanker. 

 

[Mr Ben]

I think it boils down to this for me - I felt powerful in D1's pvp and pve. I dont in D2.

 

Its like Shaxx, Saladin and whoever that is in Trials have found some way to blanket the Crucible with some Darkness effect, weakening us whenever we go in there. I mean, that's an in-game lore explanation, but all it effectively does is make pvp dull as dishwater to play for anyone who doesnt like CoD/Battlefield/whatever other team shooter is out there.

 

Supers, grenades and the melee ability* arent that big of a game changer anymore thanks to the increased CD's, unless you're a Striker Titan with 2 pulse grenades......

 

*I had some odd behavious with my melee ability (Devour) on my Warlock last night, as it seemed to be bugged, at least in Iron Banner anyway, as I melee'd multiple people then died, only to check and my melee was still available, when I know I used it right before I died. It should have been on CD, and whenever I used it, it also never gave me my health back. Yes, I was using the bottom tree in Voidwalker, before anyone brings that up.Very weird, and not had any issues with the other melee abilities on any character.

[Hexx]

6 minutes ago, Mr Ben said:

I think it boils down to this for me - I felt powerful in D1's pvp and pve. I dont in D2.

 

Its like Shaxx, Saladin and whoever that is in Trials have found some way to blanket the Crucible with some Darkness effect, weakening us whenever we go in there. I mean, that's an in-game lore explanation, but all it effectively does is make pvp dull as dishwater to play for anyone who doesnt like CoD/Battlefield/whatever other team shooter is out there.

 

Supers, grenades and the melee ability* arent that big of a game changer anymore thanks to the increased CD's, unless you're a Striker Titan with 2 pulse grenades......

 

*I had some odd behavious with my melee ability (Devour) on my Warlock last night, as it seemed to be bugged, at least in Iron Banner anyway, as I melee'd multiple people then died, only to check and my melee was still available, when I know I used it right before I died. It should have been on CD, and whenever I used it, it also never gave me my health back. Yes, I was using the bottom tree in Voidwalker, before anyone brings that up.Very weird, and not had any issues with the other melee abilities on any character.

 

Are you sure you used the "powered" melee to land the killing blow? Normal Melee won't trigger the effect?

 

I'm liking Void+Devour+Exotic Hat that gives regen on Void kills+2 void Weapons.

VOID!

 

[Gorf King]

12 minutes ago, Oz said:

check out this wanker. 

 

Check out this wanker.

 

 

Pretty tricky customer, huh? Perhaps unbelievably, they went on to win the game, led at the top of the board by Monsieur Little Light, who was surprisingly difficult to kill (I think they might have been among the few times we managed to actually get him, whereas he seemed to play hit-and-vanish quite successfully throughout).

 

Lag's generally much better than it was in years 2 and 3 of D1 mind, no doubt helped by the move to 4s and what seems like less skill-based matchmaking; but I'm putting this here to attest that it's definitely not just an issue if you live in Norfolk.

 

Although I do suspect the guy might have been Shimmy playing under a pseudonym.

[PaB]

3 hours ago, Broker said:

I can’t believe people are criticising it being a less effective Skinner Box

 

 

You really aren’t. I’ve used the stapler a bit because it’s a good scout and easy to get at 300ish, but I genuinely think it’s worse than Nameless. People are using it because it’s easy to get, yellow and because they’re sheep. All you need to do is try other stuff and practice.

I generally use it because I have a crazy effiency with it . At range it is very good. . Never use it in PvE. Combined with uriels and a sword , you have to have a really off day not to regularly finish as top player .

[Mr Ben]

9 minutes ago, Hexx said:

 

Are you sure you used the "powered" melee to land the killing blow? Normal Melee won't trigger the effect?

 

I'm liking Void+Devour+Exotic Hat that gives regen on Void kills+2 void Weapons.

VOID!

 

Well it was off cd when I respawned, and it was always after a melee duel in which I lost because my health never came back. And you dont need to kill someone/something to get the health recovery, but it should go on cd whenever you use it. This happened a lot of times after the first time I noticed it, as I then made sure to keep track of when the ability was off CD.

 

And yep, I have that helm, and use it all the time in pve. Transversive Steps are the best for PvP though, for the slide distance and running speed.

 

Wow, didnt know you'd managed to record that match Gorf. That guy was a major distraction the whole time, as you never knew where he was, so got team shot by the rest of his team.

[Shimmyhill]

16 minutes ago, Gorf King said:

 

Check out this wanker.

 

 

Pretty tricky customer, huh? Perhaps unbelievably, they went on to win the game, led at the top of the board by Monsieur Little Light, who was surprisingly difficult to kill (I think they might have been among the few times we managed to actually get him, whereas he seemed to play hit-and-vanish quite successfully throughout).

 

Lag's generally much better than it was in years 2 and 3 of D1 mind, no doubt helped by the move to 4s and what seems like less skill-based matchmaking; but I'm putting this here to attest that it's definitely not just an issue if you live in Norfolk.

 

Although I do suspect the guy might have been Shimmy playing under a pseudonym.

 

Hang on, there isn’t any lag in Destiny 2

 

I honestly had a day of people like that yesterday and blew it out of all proportion, it made me angry... you may have noticed  

 

It is another thing that makes 4x4 worse as now 25% of the team are hard/impossible to kill but have no issues killing you (assuming they can aim as lag doesn’t affect their shooting....) so if that one player is playing as part of a team and not a lone wolf it can ruin the entire game.

 

I will give IB another go fri/sat night as my wife and kids are away so hopefully a bigger pool of potential players to play with!

[Broker]

Sorry I missed that invitation earlier @Oz, I’ve had notifications hidden recently because they distract me when playing single player stuff but I’ve popped them back on now. I really need to pay more attention to who’s online  

 

1 hour ago, Jerec said:

 

Maybe this works in a 4 player fireteam, but randoms playing together I dont believe that works, you go Solo trying to disrupt the opposite group and you will get cut to ribbons, then they capture the flag then move onto the remaining players with a +1 advantage and kill them.

 

I’m mostly playing solo. Me and three randoms best a team of four people in the same clan earlier today, they were impressively terrible for people assumedly communicating with each other. It is doable, but I don’t know how much of it is me adapting my experience/strategies from other FPS games. It’s insane how many people when you flank them in this will carry on idiotically firing at the rest of your team while you kill them.

 

37 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

I generally use it because I have a crazy effiency with it . At range it is very good. . Never use it in PvE. Combined with uriels and a sword , you have to have a really off day not to regularly finish as top player .

 

I can not understand how people are using swords in PvP! Every attempt involves me getting gunned down before I’m close to people, then after an evening getting annoyed and switching back to my rocket launcher. I’m also having much better luck with golden gun and dawnblade than the melee focused supers.

[Scruff]

28 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

 

 

I will give IB another go fri/sat night as my wife and kids are away so hopefully a bigger pool of potential players to play with!

 

Missing some important punctuation there @Shimmyhill! You make it sound like your wife and kids are the reason people don't want to play with you, not the fact you're a lag switching, blinking, dirty shotgunner

[PaB]

Just now, Broker said:

 

.

I can not understand how people are using swords in PvP! Every attempt involves me getting gunned down before I’m close to people, then after an evening getting annoyed and switching back to my rocket launcher. I’m also having much better luck with golden gun and dawnblade than the melee focused supers.

The main thing with swords is the increased field of view . You can literally look round corners . 

[Mr Ben]

Wondering what the patch is? Wonder no more:

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46391

 

Quote

Destiny 2 Hotfix - 10/11/2017

0h - Cozmo

1.0.3.2 The one about Tower crashes. 

 

General

Fixed an issue that was causing crashes while loading into the Tower

Odds on favourite for Gorf to crash 5 times a day rather than 5 times in the space of an hour then.

[Oz]

luckily it was not a problem that would affect many players.  

game now crashes whenever anyone in the fireteam equips MIDA.

[Oz]

1 hour ago, Gorf King said:

 

Check out this wanker.

 

 

Pretty tricky customer, huh? Perhaps unbelievably, they went on to win the game, led at the top of the board by Monsieur Little Light, who was surprisingly difficult to kill (I think they might have been among the few times we managed to actually get him, whereas he seemed to play hit-and-vanish quite successfully throughout).

 

Lag's generally much better than it was in years 2 and 3 of D1 mind, no doubt helped by the move to 4s and what seems like less skill-based matchmaking; but I'm putting this here to attest that it's definitely not just an issue if you live in Norfolk.

 

Although I do suspect the guy might have been Shimmy playing under a pseudonym.

gorf nebula rose is on sale at the tower. please sort out that auto rifle.

[Oz]

end game spoilers on those patch notes. be careful @Jerec

[Mr Ben]

Undocumented in the patch btw, is the slight nerf to Iron Banner token drops. Turned in my last package for 10 turn ins, and instead of 300 power, they're now 298. I was 305 power at the time.

[Mr Ben]

I'll hand in another couple anyway just to be sure, as it may be the 10th hand in that is just weird (as its the main milestone), but I honestly cant see it being the case.

[Oz]

 

[Kryptonian]

1 hour ago, Shimmyhill said:

Hang on, there isn’t any lag in Destiny 2

 

It will be individual users connections like in the majority of other games, especially peer to peer. When Xbox Live launched everyone’s connection was solid, broadband was new and the people who had it were likely to be more technically/pc minded and will have optimised the hell out of it. These days broadband is the norm but the quality of connections seems to have plummeted and there are more and more people in a household using it so something has to give. It’s likely the person you’re playing has other people in the house streaming stuff or playing games too and either don’t know better or don’t care.

 

I’ve been shocked by my neighbours crap connections, some are meant to be fibre and they struggle to stream Netflix. Because they don’t have the technical knowledge they can’t sort it out with the ISP so they will just switch companies and assume the problem will go away or the kids will say there’s an issue and the parents won’t get it.

[Oz]

Apologies for the aborted banana @Mr Ben my.daugther got home and demanded paw patrol. 

[Kryptonian]

38 minutes ago, Mr Ben said:

Undocumented in the patch btw, is the slight nerf to Iron Banner token drops. Turned in my last package for 10 turn ins, and instead of 300 power, they're now 298. I was 305 power at the time.

 

I was talking about this to @Mystacon - is that right then with the patch? I was thinking it just varied as i’ve had 300, 298 & 296 off him