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The Last of Us Part 2

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Well, I must say - all the arguments for and against the violence and all sorts have convinced me that the only decent thing to do is pre-order the damn thing and attempt to run through it whilst squinting my eyes at the nasty stuff :)

 

Top up cards bought, pre-loading happening.

 

What larks, Pip!

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If only you could talk to these survivors, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances... Now that would be interesting.

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2 hours ago, JoeK said:

Well, I must say - all the arguments for and against the violence and all sorts have convinced me that the only decent thing to do is pre-order the damn thing and attempt to run through it whilst squinting my eyes at the nasty stuff :)

 

Top up cards bought, pre-loading happening.

 

What larks, Pip!


If my Currys order hasn’t arrived by 15:00 on Friday I’m doing the same. 2 hours to preload while I finish work and pop to the shops for some wine.
 

Considering the game I’m thinking claret. 

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1 hour ago, Lying Cat said:

If only you could talk to these survivors, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances... Now that would be interesting.

 

nGMrD.gif

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On 15/06/2020 at 13:32, Mike S said:

 

I had not thought of that!

 

I'll keep it though as I am paying for it anyway.

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1 minute ago, Moz said:


I might be wrong, but in the past those Spotify deals have been for new accounts only. If you’ve ever paid for premium (or had a premium trial) on your account you can’t redeem it. 

 

 

Yeah, I'll just use a new email address and start a new account. I think I can do it through a google alias? Although I don't really know what that means as it was something I read in passing once ages ago and then mostly forgot.

 

It might be easier to just flog it to be fair.

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Sorry I was reading backwards and saw you had already mentioned that, so was editing my post and the forum ate it. Ah well!

 

Are there more reviews coming on Thursday when the embargo lifts?

 

There’s a funny Forbes article today where they complain they weren’t given code and then say the game probably isn’t any good anyway because of Skillups review. I had to laugh. 
 

I’m still unconvinced skillup and his bros (even “the gay one”) don’t have a somewhat conservative agenda. Is it pure coincidence that I always get recommended vids from awful shitbags like thequartering etc while I’m watching skillup? I don’t seem to get them elsewhere and the comments are full of “those” people. But his twitter feed seems anything but. 
 

Some of his reviews have been excellent though, even ones I’ve disagreed with. I just couldn’t shake the feeling something was up with the TLOU2 review. Perhaps I’ll end up agreeing with him and wondering what everyone else is smoking (see RDR2).

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2020/06/15/two-warnings-about-the-last-of-us-part-2-review-scores/amp/

 

Interesting take on the game. Critical of it being "over bleak" and "too violent".

 

Isn't that the premise of the game though? It's set in a post apocalyptic world!!! And we'll it will be violent as well you are being attacked by creatures that want to kill you so have to use appropriate techniques to dispose of them.

 

Personally I'm glad a game is really pushing boundaries. It's the only way this medium is going to be taken a bit more seriously and not something that people feel they need to control or sensor because of the children. 

 

Reading and watching the video in this it seems they have gone for a more combat orientated gameplay over the original as it seems they have removed pretty much any environmental puzzles (which I loved). General feeling is that what you may have loved about the first game might be no longer present in the second. The AI sounds a bit bit dumb too and seems to spoil the immersion a bit apparently - however given this is running on 7 year old hardware (and even older tech inside it!) It maybe a limitation of what ND could achieve. This is one aspect I hope improves on next generation hardware.

 

Sounds like there is a 10 hour section of the game that is essentially padding too although I guess depends on how you feel about it. 

 

Another point brought up is Sony's somewhat draconian approach to how this game has to be reviewed. Personally I'm a fan because this is a story driven game I wouldn't want the story to be taken from me by the inevitable spoilers.

 

Waiting to hear about all your experiences with this! I hugely  enjoyed the first game even though I normally don't like stealth or zombie games. I think its because it somehow had a feeling that you were trying to survive in a foreboding world and as such it felt psychologically traumatic in a similar way to another game I absolutely love Silent Hill 2. Had a similar feel. Nicely tense and an interesting storyline. Hope this sequel maintains that. However I think it's a largely revenge based storyline and as such guessing it will lean more towards combat. In a similar way to to Tomb Raider reboots.

 

I might have to try and ambush my son's PS4 to play this* as it's the one PS4 game I was looking forward to playing before I had my erm clear out. Don't regret getting ride of the PS4 Pro earlier in the year... Honestly..... :D Also wonder if this will come to PS4 Now at some point?!

 

* He lives with his Mum so the console isn't in the house here so maybe difficult to prise it off him for a couple of weeks :D

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Remember when they remade Ghostbusters and in the lead up to the release there was suddenly loads of stuff online about the Ghostbusters being women?  At the start it seemed there was a massive backlash from mysogenistic internet users but (as Red-letter media showed in their great Scientist Man review) it was blown out of all proportion by Sony Picture themselves, in order to keep people talking about a film which turned out to be absolutely terrible for other reasons.  

 

The pre-launch internet chatter has this same feel.  I'm not saying it's going to be a bad game (surely nothing could be as bad as Ghostbusters 2016 was) but I think the polarising review comments, the overly harsh review embargoes, the discussions of the violence, the changes to the characters etc., All has that same deliberate, orchestrated feeling.  Frankly, we won't know any of the answers until 30 hours after the Friday launch, but I'm naturally suspicious of all of it. 

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I just wanna sneak around killing bastards, people are taking this far too seriously. 

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6 hours ago, dumpster said:

The pre-launch internet chatter has this same feel.  I'm not saying it's going to be a bad game (surely nothing could be as bad as Ghostbusters 2016 was) but I think the polarising review comments, the overly harsh review embargoes, the discussions of the violence, the changes to the characters etc., All has that same deliberate, orchestrated feeling.  Frankly, we won't know any of the answers until 30 hours after the Friday launch, but I'm naturally suspicious of all of it. 

 

I mean, it's not really very polarising at all is it? It's 96 on MC and the embargo wasn't all that restrictive, reviews were released a week before launch. They just don't want reviewers to spoil the damn thing.

 

In terms of reception, Ghostbusters isn't a very good comparison then, but misogynists and racists ARE a massive problem and shouldn't be downplayed. Leslie Jones, the black lead actress of that film, was hounded off social media by racists. Basically any media with progressive elements will be attacked from certain corners, no matter its quality. That's the sad reality. And that's why people should stop giving SkillUp any clicks. We're going through a Black Lives Matter movement right now and J.K. Rowling is under fire for being a TERF and rightly so. We too should be part of the solution, not the problem. There are loads of people who do great reviews and analysis and deserve the clicks way more than people who are either part of the alt-right or deny what a problem it really is. I know some people find ResetEra too woke and all, but I quite like their zero tolerance policy on this.

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35 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I just wanna sneak around killing bastards, people are taking this far too seriously. 

Well it's a game that wants to be taken seriously, so that's not really surprising. Even when it doesn't succeed, it offers up plenty to talk about. 

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17 minutes ago, Vemsie said:

 

I mean, it's not really very polarising at all is it? It's 96 on MC and the embargo wasn't all that restrictive, reviews were released a week before launch. They just don't want reviewers to spoil the damn thing.

 

In terms of reception, Ghostbusters isn't a very good comparison then, but misogynists and racists ARE a massive problem and shouldn't be downplayed. Leslie Jones, the black lead actress of that film, was hounded off social media by racists. Basically any media with progressive elements will be attacked from certain corners, no matter its quality. That's the sad reality. And that's why people should stop giving SkillUp any clicks. We're going through a Black Lives Matter movement right now and J.K. Rowling is under fire for being a TERF and rightly so. We too should be part of the solution, not the problem. There are loads of people who do great reviews and analysis and deserve the clicks way more than people who are either part of the alt-right or deny what a problem it really is.

This video explains it.  

 

Yes , Leslie Jones was hounded off social media and yes there are awful people in society.  But also there's a marketing bandwagon that understands that *any* discussion of your product keeps it in the public eye, and they will harness this and overstate it to create sales. The SkillUp review has generated more discussion (including  that Forbes article) than "just another very positive review" would have, and we are falling into the trap of having strong emotions and opinions of something we have not played for ourselves. There's a need to keep all of us thinking about this game for whatever reason and in 2 days we'll all buy it, in a month it will be done and dusted and in a year it will be a back catalogue video game.  OK, that's a bit harsh, but with hindsight, was Carmageddon too violent? Or Manhunt, Bully, GTA, or whatever the next big story is, it all just games. 

 

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I don't really understand the point that you're making. You seem to be suggesting that Sony are paying SkillUp and Forbes to write negative articles about TLOU2 in the hope that creating some controversy will boost sales. Or at least somehow signal-boosting those existing articles to drum up interest.

 

Fake drumming up of interest in the most highly-anticipated game of the quarter/year seems like something they don't really need to do. Forbes is a terrible click bait site, Skill Up needs clicks.

 

This new conspiracy theory dumpster character is perhaps someone you should have a chat with. After the suggestion that Driveclub got its servers shut down to somehow help GT Sport, I wonder if you're going down a strange path.

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Yeah, this is just a big game that has a lot of interest around it, and a big overt marketing campaign pushing it.

 

However it was received, people were going to be talking about it right now. Some people are annoyed about the good reviews, some are annoyed about the bad ones. It's also the sort of game that invites analysis, in a way that, say, the latest Doom doesn't. It's trying to say something, and everyone will have a view on whether it does that well or not.

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1 minute ago, BadgerFarmer said:

It's also the sort of game that invites analysis, in a way that, say, the latest Doom doesn't. It's trying to say something, and everyone will have a view on whether it does that well or not.

That’s why I get so annoyed at people going, “it’s just a videogame, it doesn’t matter “, or “well [other game where your shoot people] is violent, so people who talk about the violence here are hypocritical”. It’s going to be one of those rare games that might actually be worth having a conversation about.

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57 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

Yeah, this is just a big game that has a lot of interest around it, and a big overt marketing campaign pushing it.

 

However it was received, people were going to be talking about it right now. Some people are annoyed about the good reviews, some are annoyed about the bad ones. It's also the sort of game that invites analysis, in a way that, say, the latest Doom doesn't. It's trying to say something, and everyone will have a view on whether it does that well or not.


This idea though that we should dismiss the overwhelming majority of the good reviews is quite troubling. Many are acting like the “violence issue” is a problem in the game, when most critics didn’t find it a problem. That doesn’t mean that there is nothing to talk about,  but the game is not about the effects of violence per se, despite commenting on it quite thoughtfully.
 

It would be sad to completely lose sight of what this game is really about, which is an attempt to go deep into the human element when humanity is almost stripped away.

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Also, I've managed to watch @dumpster's video that "explains it all". I don't really know who these guys are, but it certainly doesn't.

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11 hours ago, Moz said:

Sorry I was reading backwards and saw you had already mentioned that, so was editing my post and the forum ate it. Ah well!

 

Are there more reviews coming on Thursday when the embargo lifts?

 

There’s a funny Forbes article today where they complain they weren’t given code and then say the game probably isn’t any good anyway because of Skillups review. I had to laugh. 
 

I’m still unconvinced skillup and his bros (even “the gay one”) don’t have a somewhat conservative agenda. Is it pure coincidence that I always get recommended vids from awful shitbags like thequartering etc while I’m watching skillup? I don’t seem to get them elsewhere and the comments are full of “those” people. But his twitter feed seems anything but. 
 

Some of his reviews have been excellent though, even ones I’ve disagreed with. I just couldn’t shake the feeling something was up with the TLOU2 review. Perhaps I’ll end up agreeing with him and wondering what everyone else is smoking (see RDR2).

 

I honestly don't see an agenda in any of his work, at all. Maybe I am blind/naive/don't know what I should be looking out for, I've read and watched a ton of his reviews for the last few years and think he's one of, if not the best reviewer out there. Deeply detailed, well considered, immaculately researched and presented, I really can't see anything even vaguely sinister or that things aren't as they seem in his reviews.

 

Maybe the problem is that people are way too quick to politicize and attempt to dredge up controversy when it's not even there.

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1 hour ago, Talk Show Host said:


This idea though that we should dismiss the overwhelming majority of the good reviews is quite troubling. Many are acting like the “violence issue” is a problem in the game, when most critics didn’t find it a problem. That doesn’t mean that there is nothing to talk about,  but the game is not about the effects of violence per se, despite commenting on it quite thoughtfully.
 

It would be sad to completely lose sight of what this game is really about, which is an attempt to go deep into the human element when humanity is almost stripped away.

I don't think that many people are dismissing all the reviews. Some are, because they think the first game is overrated, some others are because they're convinced it's some SJW conspiracy or whatever, while others are taking review scores as undeniable proof that this game is a medium defining moment that deserves unconditional worship. It's all a bit silly, but there are plenty of others not doing any of those things.

 

As for critics, well they'll focus on whatever they find pertinent. Sometimes that's the game's main themes, and sometimes it isn't. The issues around violence here clearly stick out, because of the way the developers have chosen to deal with it. If critics find that it overwhelms the experience, then they'll talk about that. For me, the best criticism often comes from interpreting themes in ways the creators didn't intend. 

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33 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

 

I honestly don't see an agenda in any of his work, at all. Maybe I am blind/naive/don't know what I should be looking out for, I've read and watched a ton of his reviews for the last few years and think he's one of, if not the best reviewer out there. Deeply detailed, well considered, immaculately researched and presented, I really can't see anything even vaguely sinister or that things aren't as they seem in his reviews.

 

Maybe the problem is that people are way too quick to politicize and attempt to dredge up controversy when it's not even there.

 

It was all on the other channel/streams with his brother I should point out. Which seems to be going for a different audience slightly at odds with his own channel.

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15 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

I don't think that many people are dismissing all the reviews. Some are, because they think the first game is overrated, some others are because they're convinced it's some SJW conspiracy or whatever, while others are taking review scores as undeniable proof that this game is a medium defining moment that deserves unconditional worship. It's all a bit silly, but there are plenty of others not doing any of those things.

 

As for critics, well they'll focus on whatever they find pertinent. Sometimes that's the game's main themes, and sometimes it isn't. The issues around violence here clearly stick out, because of the way the developers have chosen to deal with it. If critics find that it overwhelms the experience, then they'll talk about that. For me, the best criticism often comes from interpreting themes in ways the creators didn't intend. 


Of course, I agree. But most critics haven’t found that it overwhelms the experience because they think that the rest of the things it’s trying to say are more important and we shouldn’t lose sight of that.

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24 minutes ago, Moz said:

 

It was all on the other channel/streams with his brother I should point out. Which seems to be going for a different audience slightly at odds with his own channel.

 

Dunno, I watch all of their Laymen Gaming videos, it's just a looser format than the main Skillup channel where they bounce opinions off each other about games. Never even thought a single word of it was in any way political, conservative or loaded in any way.

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Of course it’s ok for other people to have subjective opinions, but we really shouldn’t lose track of my subjective opinions and the people who agree with me. 

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10 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:


Of course, I agree. But most critics haven’t found that it overwhelms the experience because they think that the rest of the things it’s trying to say are more important and we shouldn’t lose sight of that.

OK, well, good for them, I guess.

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17 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

 

Dunno, I watch all of their Laymen Gaming videos, it's just a looser format than the main Skillup channel where they bounce opinions off each other about games. Never even thought a single word of it was in any way political, conservative or loaded in any way.

 

It's not overtly, apart from using words like "triggered" a lot etc, but I've seen them multiple times take a really anti stance to something that just happens to have a liberal agenda. A bit dog whistly perhaps. Then you look at the comments and go "yep".

 

In the video they've just uploaded, they're talking about Alanah Pearce's latest video (where she says she wouldn't have given TLOU a 10/10, though she's only played half of it) and then sarcastically describing Polygon/Vice etc as "alt right media" which is a joke I don't even get but seems to get the commenters properly riled up. 

 

BUT, I also said upthread that every mainstream review read almost exactly the same. So there has to be some value in Skillup and his bros providing a different viewpoint.

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4 hours ago, BadgerFarmer said:

Well it's a game that wants to be taken seriously, so that's not really surprising. Even when it doesn't succeed, it offers up plenty to talk about. 

Sure, and I’m sure it will be great but these comparisons to Cormack McCarthy make me chuckle - it’s a zombie game, survival horror, call it what you want. Manhunt took violence as entertainment and gave the last word on it as far as I’m concerned, but I’m prepared to eat my words.

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19 minutes ago, Moz said:

 

BUT, I also said upthread that every mainstream review read almost exactly the same. So there has to be some value in Skillup and his bros providing a different viewpoint.


This is what really bothers me. In an industry where the vast majority of reviewers not only give the same score, but use largely the same language, which is indistinguishable from the language the people selling these games use to describe them, it seems crazy to me that you’d look at the three or four reviews that have been like “it’s good but not perfect” and single them out as the suspicious ones with an agenda. Or spend hours trying to “disprove” their dissenting opinions or discredit entire lines of argument. 
 

There’s something incredibly tribal about people’s love of consumer products. And something very personal that people feel when the things they love are “attacked” by people daring not to like them.

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