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The Last of Us Part 2

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1 minute ago, Thor said:

Runs at 1440p according to Digital Foundry. 

Yeah and the frame rate dips below the 30fps target on the pro more than the bass console - but nothing game breaking. 

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I really don't know what to do now.

 

I've got the LE console on order from Smyth's and the LE game on order from Amazon (despite going all digital I really like the mid-range Sony limited editions with the artbooks and slipcase.

 

The copy of the game that comes with the console I'm selling to my bro-in-law but I wonder if I should cancel the Amazon one (which I've managed to get for £10 less than RRP) or go digital for a few quid less but forgo the artbook and nice sleeve etc.

 

Then I think if I buy the digital version I should just sack off the console but the thought of having a quieter Pro for this and Ghost of Tsushima is a big draw. The cost of which can be offset by selling the old one and the other stuff I've sold recently.

 

I hate getting caught in a loop in my own head.

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Any news on whether it supports 3D audio on the Platinum headset like Uncharted 4 did.

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1 minute ago, Harsin said:

Any news on whether it supports 3D audio on the Platinum headset like Uncharted 4 did.

 

The PushSquare review says it has a 3D audio setting but doesn't specifically mention the Platinum headset.

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2 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Any news on whether it supports 3D audio on the Platinum headset like Uncharted 4 did.

I’m hoping so , but I popped on the app last night to see if there was a profile for it .... there isn’t.
But then lost legacy didn’t have a profile either and that supported it . 
Fingers crossed ! I’ll have 4 whole games to  justify my £130 purchase then . 

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5 minutes ago, teddymeow said:

 

The PushSquare review says it has a 3D audio setting but doesn't specifically mention the Platinum headset.

Then it sounds like it supports it . You can usually only select 3D audio with the platinums connected . 

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4 hours ago, Stanley said:

Interesting that the game performs better on the base console than the pro, although the image quality is obviously higher on the pro. 


That’ll be why, for now. Resi 3 on the One X had a similar problem at launch where the Pro ran significantly better. 
 

One, hopefully day 1, patch later and the Pro will be back on top in terms of performance.

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So the Skill Up review says that the story is a mess and none of the characters are compelling, or have motivations that make sense. 

 

The Easy Allies review says that the story is fantastic, and has characters with convincing goals and motivations. 

 

Urgh. Going to have to buy it just to see for myself, aren’t I? 

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21 hours ago, Talk Show Host said:

But how can you change all this without changing the story or writing multiple choice paths? If you simply want gameplay choice you have it on some level but story freedom is a totally different thing and a completely different design. This game tells it’s own story as so many games do. This is, again, a problem all videogames have, if we consider it a problem that is, which I don’t. There are plenty games out there who let you shape their stories, this is not one of them.

 

If I do a pacifist run through a level and get a murderous cutscene for my efforts anyway, the narrative refuses to give an inch to reflect my choice as a player. Ordinarily that's a game thing we accept, like you say, but this is a narrative that bangs the old ‘Isn't it awful you have to kill these people to survive’ drum, when you're often simultaneously given the option not to.

 

So it doesn't need branching, just minor alterations to the ending and cutscenes according to what you did, and anything that happens against your will via overridden controls shouldn't be presented as your choice. I think it's another dose of Housering, where you don't get to have fun with improvised tactics in a GTA any more because you might complete a mission before you've heard his dialogue.

 

In these situations I think it's fair to hold their stories to the same standards as non-interactive ones. I might still buy this for its multiplayer, but I wouldn't get any more out of its singleplayer than watching someone else, and that's always been the beauty of gaming for me, right back to the days of watching others in arcades — the consequence of actions.

 

If we're talking about garden-path gaming, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture doesn't feel off because you can't influence anything. You mightn't care for its story, but it has united gameplay.

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3 hours ago, Escaped said:

 

If I do a pacifist run through a level and get a murderous cutscene for my efforts anyway, the narrative refuses to give an inch to reflect my choice as a player. Ordinarily that's a game thing we accept, like you say, but this is a narrative that bangs the old ‘Isn't it awful you have to kill these people to survive’ drum, when you're often simultaneously given the option not to.

 

So it doesn't need branching, just minor alterations to the ending and cutscenes according to what you did, and anything that happens against your will via overridden controls shouldn't be presented as your choice. I think it's another dose of Housering, where you don't get to have fun with improvised tactics in a GTA any more because you might complete a mission before you've heard his dialogue.

 

In these situations I think it's fair to hold their stories to the same standards as non-interactive ones. I might still buy this for its multiplayer, but I wouldn't get any more out of its singleplayer than watching someone else, and that's always been the beauty of gaming for me, right back to the days of watching others in arcades — the consequence of actions.

 

If we're talking about garden-path gaming, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture doesn't feel off because you can't influence anything. You mightn't care for its story, but it has united gameplay.


You don’t have the option to avoid killing in tLoU, you have the option of how to approach the kills. Sometimes you may just run away but this is a game as all others of its kind: kill the enemies and advance to the next segment.

 

These “minor” alterations you mention could elevate the cost and change the narrative or characterization by a lot. Also, these are not simple choices and many times world building is depending on them. In this case the violence is used to depict how the world and revenge has made Ellie a very capable survivor and how it is now a part of her life, exactly as the worlds we enjoy in movies or books have turned normal people to something else. Creating the path of a pacifist Ellie for example would give the game choice, true, but then you have to write a different story and design a different gameplay and world. 
 

I don’t particularly disagree with your argument but this is not a game designed to do that. You can’t, for example, say The Godfather movies suck because they should have more action in to show the dangerous lifestyle of these psychopaths and change some of the acting scenes accordingly. I too would prefer a more exploration gameplay and less violent but how would I go about doing that without changing the length of the game, the story and its sales?
 

l didn’t see many people complain about violence in RDR2 or how it would be better if Arthur had different choices in his gameplay (which it would - and Ellie does have them) or how it would be better for the GTAV characters to have the option not to murder everyone and slightly alter some of their acting and scenes to reflect their characters.

 

Mayne next people will criticize the game because it should really have an expansive rpg skill tree so the player has even more choices? 

 

 

 

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This brought me to tears today and shows how committed ND is to help as many people as it can to enjoy their products.
 

 

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That SkillUp review is another weird watch. So many of the reviews have said it's a shame but the embargoes prevent them from showing the best bits, but that review makes the game look exactly the same as the first game, but with better graphics.  TLoU was a PS3 game enhanced for PS4.   Part 2 is a PS4 and PS4 pro game and it shows. But the gameplay looks exactly the same as the previous game and the reviewer notes that he never really liked the gameplay.  So they got someone who doesn't like the gameplay of part one to review part 2. Why? Unless they want to be deliberately controversial.  

 

Having said that, I really enjoyed part one because of the story and characters, but I found the gameplay a bit lacking. But the story motivated me through.  If part 2's story isn't as good, I could easily see myself being bored too.  So I'm really conflicted between thinking the review is suspect, yet it's convinced me that it's not the game for me.

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5 minutes ago, dumpster said:

That SkillUp review is another weird watch. So many of the reviews have said it's a shame but the embargoes prevent them from showing the best bits, but that review makes the game look exactly the same as the first game, but with better graphics.  TLoU was a PS3 game enhanced for PS4.   Part 2 is a PS4 and PS4 pro game and it shows. But the gameplay looks exactly the same as the previous game and the reviewer notes that he never really liked the gameplay.  So they got someone who doesn't like the gameplay of part one to review part 2. Why? Unless they want to be deliberately controversial.  

 

Having said that, I really enjoyed part one because of the story and characters, but I found the gameplay a bit lacking. But the story motivated me through.  If part 2's story isn't as good, I could easily see myself being bored too.  So I'm really conflicted between thinking the review is suspect, yet it's convinced me that it's not the game for me.


Most reviewers say that the gameplay is improved quite a lot and I agree with them. The gameplay in the first game was simply ok for me, good enough to not be a distraction with some very tense moments. This one takes it to another level mixing things up enough to be more tense and varied. The core remains the same, the mix of action/stealth, but varied difficulty settings,

some amazing level design and smarter enemies and scenarios really makes it a cut above the first game. 

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I'm so hyped for this game. If it isn't delivered on Friday I'll be so disappointed.

 

Also, I'll be interested to hear exactly how loud it can make my (usually quiet) launch PS4 scream.

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8 hours ago, Garibaldi said:

So the Skill Up review says that the story is a mess and none of the characters are compelling, or have motivations that make sense. 

 

The Easy Allies review says that the story is fantastic, and has characters with convincing goals and motivations. 

 

Urgh. Going to have to buy it just to see for myself, aren’t I? 


SkillUp is in the minority, the vast majority of reviewers love it. His review at the very least sounds like it was actually written about this game, whereas ass Easy Allies reviews sound exactly the same, like they’re just pasting whatever the game is today into the same script.

 

53 minutes ago, dumpster said:

That SkillUp review is another weird watch. So many of the reviews have said it's a shame but the embargoes prevent them from showing the best bits, but that review makes the game look exactly the same as the first game, but with better graphics.  TLoU was a PS3 game enhanced for PS4.   Part 2 is a PS4 and PS4 pro game and it shows. But the gameplay looks exactly the same as the previous game and the reviewer notes that he never really liked the gameplay.  So they got someone who doesn't like the gameplay of part one to review part 2. Why? Unless they want to be deliberately controversial.  

 

Having said that, I really enjoyed part one because of the story and characters, but I found the gameplay a bit lacking. But the story motivated me through.  If part 2's story isn't as good, I could easily see myself being bored too.  So I'm really conflicted between thinking the review is suspect, yet it's convinced me that it's not the game for me.

 

“Suspect”? It’s not a conspiracy that someone who didn’t like the first one is reviewing this, it’s his YouTube channel.

Is it that crazy to think that someone didn’t enjoy it? Are you not interested in playing unless all reviewers enjoyed it?

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The SkillUp review claiming the characters’ motivations make no sense is something that clearly shows to me someone who didn’t really understand much or simply is biased to not like it in some way. 
 

You can find faults with the story and the game of course, but how can someone claim that the characters’ motivations make no sense when the game literally tells you about them and shows them to you is beyond me. To each his own I guess.

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54 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

The SkillUp review claiming the characters’ motivations make no sense is something that clearly shows to me someone who didn’t really understand much or simply is biased to not like it in some way. 

Ars Technica had a similar complaint so it'll be interesting to see. Telling you what the motivations are doesn't automatically make them make sense.

Quote

But it’s also in large part because major characters seem to change their motivations on a dime—full of murderous rage one second, defaulting to mercy out of what appears to be exhausted resignation the next.

 

The narrative by and large doesn’t do the necessary work to sell these abrupt changes of heart, so these moments often seem constructed for plot convenience rather than to stay true to the nature of the characters as they’ve been presented. The player is left having to do too much work to fill in the blanks to make pivotal moments make some kind of logical sense, even from the characters’ own point of view.

 

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1 hour ago, Talk Show Host said:


Most reviewers say that the gameplay is improved quite a lot and I agree with them. The gameplay in the first game was simply ok for me, good enough to not be a distraction with some very tense moments. This one takes it to another level mixing things up enough to be more tense and varied. The core remains the same, the mix of action/stealth, but varied difficulty settings,

some amazing level design and smarter enemies and scenarios really makes it a cut above the first game. 

Yeah, that's my take on it too. The basics aren't changed much, but it does better with variety, level design, interesting set pieces etc. It could still do with a bit of trimming to avoid repetition, but it's a significant improvement.

---------------------

RE the forced violence. It's absolutely part of what the game is trying to do, and I agree that adding a pacifist path would miss the point. The discussion is whether it succeeds in the message it's trying to get across, and I think there's plenty of scope for criticism in that respect. 

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2 hours ago, dumpster said:

So they got someone who doesn't like the gameplay of part one to review part 2. Why?

Because they probably have an interesting opinion on the game, I guess. The argument that you should only get someone who liked the last game/ other games in the genre to review a new title is pretty absurd.

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Remember when IGN US gave Football Manager 2009 2/10 saying it wasn't as good as FIFA or PES :lol:

 

 

 

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Also, I agree that the embargo placed on reviewers is strict, and no one likes being told by PR what they can and can't say. But it is good that no one's discussing the plot points already, before people have had a chance to play it. I think it's the kind of story that's really worth discovering as you play.

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10 minutes ago, Down by Law said:

Remember when IGN US gave Football Manager 2009 2/10 saying it wasn't as good as FIFA or PES :lol:

 

 

 

I said "didn't like", not "fundamentally doesn't understand what the game is". Although I think IGN once gave a middling score to some PS2 game because of a bunch of features the previous game had, so whether the played it at all is up for debate.

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36 minutes ago, Spacehost said:

The argument that you should only get someone who liked the last game/ other games in the genre to review a new title is pretty absurd.

No it’s isn’t . What value is there in getting someone  that’s hates RTS games to review an RTS game? Even if they like it it tells you nothing because the reviewer might like it precisely because it’s not a very good RTS game , or might hate it because it’s an excellent one .

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26 minutes ago, Spacehost said:

Because they probably have an interesting opinion on the game, I guess. The argument that you should only get someone who liked the last game/ other games in the genre to review a new title is pretty absurd.

Nonsense surely?  Part 2 is surely aimed at people who enjoyed part one. I think the Skillup video is clickbait. Tell everyone the game that gets 10/10 reviews across the board is boring, that will get the clicks and generate as revenue. 

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1 minute ago, dumpster said:

Nonsense surely?  Part 2 is surely aimed at people who enjoyed part one.

So only people the game is aimed at should have an opinion on it? If some wag chimed in with a perfect 5 stars despite hating Uncharted and TLOU1 we'd stroke our beards and go, "well, I think they're just jumping on the good-review bandwagon for the clicks"?

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8 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

No it’s isn’t . What value is there in getting someone  that’s hates RTS games to review an RTS game? Even if they like it it tells you nothing because he might like it precisely because it’s not a very good RTS game , or might hate it because it’s an excellent one .

 

There's a difference between someone who doesn't like a particular game, and someone who doesn't like an entire genre. Plenty of widely disliked games will find a niche fandom somewhere, but if you only ever let people review games who liked earlier games in the series then you'd end up with a lot of positive but completely pointless reviews.

 

I know it's practically a tradition, but there's really no point in tearing apart reviews before you've played the game, unless it's something like that Football Manager review of course. As long as they back up their arguments then who's to say what is and isn't valid. It doesn't mean you have to agree with them.

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57 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

Yeah, that's my take on it too. The basics aren't changed much, but it does better with variety, level design, interesting set pieces etc. It could still do with a bit of trimming to avoid repetition, but it's a significant improvement.

---------------------

RE the forced violence. It's absolutely part of what the game is trying to do, and I agree that adding a pacifist path would miss the point. The discussion is whether it succeeds in the message it's trying to get across, and I think there's plenty of scope for criticism in that respect. 


I agree, yes. When we are talking about “forced violence” though we really have to be careful what we mean and how does it compare to other games. The LoU doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Are we talking about the actual gameplay? Are we taking about cutscenes? Are we talking about the world? We also need to provide alternatives that make sense, especially since the game goes a long way to show the effects of violence with plenty of character growth and world exploration. Not everything has to happen to the player in order to mean something.
 

The game’s story tries to use all the violence, the world and the character motives to reach a place of redemption, forgiveness and contemplate on the cost. As all games it doesn’t stop its moment to moment gameplay to ponder about each kill, but it does a good job showing the physical results through its realistic portrayal and the psychological results via the dehumanization which repetition brings.
 

Showing the effects of violence is not the point of the story though, far from it. It goes much deeper and in a much more complex place because of the things we can’t really talk about. 

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2 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

We also need to provide alternatives that make sense

I really don't get this idea that you can only criticise something if you can provide a workable alternative. I'm not going to hold off saying FFXII lacks a strong narrative through-line because I can't come up with an alternative story structure, I don't see why people can't consider the nature and quantity of violence in a game without trying to rebuild it from the ground up. Criticism isn't some high school marking exercise where you tell the developer what they did bad and how to do it better next time.

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