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The Last of Us Part 2


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8 minutes ago, dumpster said:

I'll stick at it.  I'm probably wrong.   

Seriously, how far are you into it? All the chapters have big nameplates, like Seattle Day 1 or whatever.

 

One consistent criticism I had throughout the game was it’s refusal to get out of its own way and cut down some of the fat; you could easily get frustrated doing “TLOU1 stuff” for a while until it really opens up and kicks into gear.

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The way the game tells its story is so intrinsically linked to you, the player, participating in events that it's pretty much impossible to imagine it being told in any other medium. You could try but it would lack the impact; you need to get a fair way in before that becomes apparent though.

 

I think by the time you complete Hillcrest it should be apparent how this has evolved beyond the first game in gameplay terms. Once you get into the second half of the game it should become apparent why this is a game and not a movie. 

 

Whether you love it or hate it, attempting

to judge the merits of this game based on the first few hours is genuinely a fool's errand.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, dumpster said:

I'll stick at it.  I'm probably wrong.   

No one can force you to enjoy it, but I think the game play is exquisite. It’s all the little details - the way enemies react to being shot, stabbed, blown up - and then the way their comrades react to that - there are some fucking awesome battles in it. 
 

What’s that animation called when things change depending on what’s going on, procedural animation? (I’m awful at tech speak) But this game does that better than anything. The work that’s gone into how you just shoot an enemy is bonkers, nothing else comes close. 

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27 minutes ago, Stanley said:

What’s that animation called when things change depending on what’s going on?

 

I'd hazard a guess that in TLoU 2, it's a mixture of the sort of physics-based animation that Rockstar used with Euphoria, and the age old trick of just having lots and lots of animations for a multitude of conceivable occasions.

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Inverse kinematics? Basically the character's limbs/body being led from a point of interaction, instead of top down the other way. I think blending from one animation to another was meant to be the hot thing in this game. The movement certainly seems a lot more organic than other games. When you switch to an older game it's immediately noticeable.

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56 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I mean, just look at it. No plot spoilers but it does reveal a location, it’s just gameplay though.

 

 

That vid brilliantly captures that level. It's magnificent.

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6 hours ago, Stanley said:

No one can force you to enjoy it, but I think the game play is exquisite. It’s all the little details - the way enemies react to being shot, stabbed, blown up - and then the way their comrades react to that - there are some fucking awesome battles in it. 
 

What’s that animation called when things change depending on what’s going on, procedural animation? (I’m awful at tech speak) But this game does that better than anything. The work that’s gone into how you just shoot an enemy is bonkers, nothing else comes close. 

 

Motion matching.

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48 minutes ago, joemul said:

Ignore how expertly they take everyone out - the clip taps into the relentlessness of that level. At no point do you feel like you’re in control. It’s brilliantly executed. 

There’s this constant push-pull dynamic where the level design and enemy deployment lets you achieve then lose dominance. Loved it.

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It’s a masterpiece.

 

 

 

Thread over

 

 

 

 I don’t care if someone doesn’t enjoy it but to misrepresent it is kinda frustrating. You absolutely don’t sit there not pressing anything 50% of the time.

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1 hour ago, Eighthours said:


That player is just sliiiiiiiightly better than me.


Yeah. I've just started, had the first couple of 'choose your approach' encounters with the WoLFs, and that level of skill is :blink:. I'm lucky if I get two shots in sequence on target, centre mass. Headshots are sweet when you pull them off, 'though.

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2 hours ago, joemul said:

Ignore how expertly they take everyone out - the clip taps into the relentlessness of that level. At no point do you feel like you’re in control. It’s brilliantly executed. 


It also highlights that the musical score in the level is incredible. That underlying oppressive metallic drone that builds and builds as the situation escalates.

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And the use of stereo/directional audio - even just watching the clip, I was thinking 'Shit! They're off to the left!' Plus the way Ellie is breathing and subvocalising her thoughts - all adds to the tension.

 

I expect my Ellie is going to die a lot in that level. I mean, that player had a few close moments and they clearly knew every bad guy's habits to the point of lining up headshots in advance. Me, someone jumps out of a bathroom and I'll sit down and accidentally start crafting instead of belting them with the rusty pipe I keep for bashing brains.

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2 hours ago, smac said:

And the use of stereo/directional audio - even just watching the clip, I was thinking 'Shit! They're off to the left!' Plus the way Ellie is breathing and subvocalising her thoughts - all adds to the tension.

 

I expect my Ellie is going to die a lot in that level. I mean, that player had a few close moments and they clearly knew every bad guy's habits to the point of lining up headshots in advance. Me, someone jumps out of a bathroom and I'll sit down and accidentally start crafting instead of belting them with the rusty pipe I keep for bashing brains.

For those that enjoyed the other video, and just to add to the bolded bit in @smac’s post, about 1.40 in Ellie shoots a guy in the head then walks away with a “fuck off” it’s perfect. (Heavy story spoilers)

 

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5 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Played again and had virtually no cut scenes at all.  Seems what I've been playing is the intro , even though I played for about 4 hours.  

:lol: It's a 40-hour game, that would probably explain it, yes.

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8 minutes ago, Spacehost said:

:lol: It's a 40-hour game, that would probably explain it, yes.

You see, four hours may be scratching the surface of a 40 hour game, but for something so obviously technically accomplished I would have expected more of the actual gameplay within that window.  4 or 5 hours is a long time to play something you're not enjoying, even though you know it's meant to be fantastic when it gets going. But now I remember not liking TLOU1 at first and reading with disbelief when someone on here said the first seven hours or so we're pretty quiet.  Seven hours!  But yeah, I enjoyed TLOU1 enormously and for those few hours Part 2 really feels like exactly the same game with better FMV.  Now it's opening up I can see it, but it's surprised me how much intro and set up there was to get there.

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On 28/02/2021 at 21:57, joemul said:

Ignore how expertly they take everyone out - the clip taps into the relentlessness of that level. At no point do you feel like you’re in control. It’s brilliantly executed. 


Seattle Day 2 just started. I appear to be headed for some place called 

Spoiler

Hillcrest...


I wonder what I'll find there... 

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19 hours ago, dumpster said:

Played again and had virtually no cut scenes at all.  Seems what I've been playing is the intro , even though I played for about 4 hours.  

Once you start getting into the city the game starts to open up a bit. The first few hours or so are to set the scene. Prepare yourself for a fair amount of gritty killing... :D 

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I get where Dumpster is coming from. The mechanics in this game, the stuff that you actually do, are undeveloped and dated. There's not much depth to the stealth, gunplay, combat or level design. It all feels really shallow and lacking, but wrapped up in this big lavish production which makes you think it's better than it actually is. I stopped thinking about this game as soon as I finished it with absolutely no will at all to ever revisit it, and it helped me to make the decision that I am done with Sony's first party titles in general.

 

I played Sniper Elite 4 recently and it absolutely blows the piss out of Last Of Us 2 as a stealth-em-up game, as do Hitman and Manhunt.

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15 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

I get where Dumpster is coming from. The mechanics in this game, the stuff that you actually do, are undeveloped and dated. There's not much depth to the stealth, gunplay, combat or level design. It all feels really shallow and lacking, but wrapped up in this big lavish production which makes you think it's better than it actually is. I stopped thinking about this game as soon as I finished it with absolutely no will at all to ever revisit it, and it helped me to make the decision that I am done with Sony's first party titles in general.

 

I played Sniper Elite 4 recently and it absolutely blows the piss out of Last Of Us 2 as a stealth-em-up game, as do Hitman and Manhunt.

Thank you for the supportive words :)

 

I was thinking about how in Pac Man, they put in the little tune at the start because they realised that if you put a coin in and press start, you need a few seconds to compose yourself, get ready and then start playing the game.  All my life I've loved the arcade and loved videogames.  I love to pick up and play. But arcade gaming involves inserting a coin and then you're off.

 

I'm not really playing to hear a story or bond with characters. I want to actively play, not watch, and it pains me when people say "this is a great game, but the first 7 hours are a bit slow" because I have played amazing games to completion in 7 hours. 

 

Resident Evil 4 has loads of cut scenes but they last about 10 seconds each and fit in with the gameplay. The Last of Us involves long sequences where you ride a horse from a to b listening to the other characters dialogue.  All you're doing is pressing forwards, waiting for the next gameplay.  

 

Luckily it does seem that now, 6 hours in, it's becoming more gameplay led and less talky and I'm enjoying it.  I'm looking forward to the sequences people have mentioned because it all sounds great.  But I found it very off-putting that what feels like the game is more of a story setting piece and 6 hours seems a long time before gameplay takes front and centre stage. For me anyway.

 

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54 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

I get where Dumpster is coming from. The mechanics in this game, the stuff that you actually do, are undeveloped and dated. There's not much depth to the stealth, gunplay, combat or level design. It all feels really shallow and lacking, but wrapped up in this big lavish production which makes you think it's better than it actually is. I stopped thinking about this game as soon as I finished it with absolutely no will at all to ever revisit it, and it helped me to make the decision that I am done with Sony's first party titles in general.

 

I played Sniper Elite 4 recently and it absolutely blows the piss out of Last Of Us 2 as a stealth-em-up game, as do Hitman and Manhunt.

 

It's not really a pure stealth game, a better comparison would be something like the recent Splinter Cells or Dishonored in that you're still very capable when you've been made, as opposed to Hitman or Sniper Elite which are far more stealth focussed and a bit rubs in close quarter combat. 

 

I loved Manhunt back in the day. It still has a great atmosphere and the music is superb, but the stealth mechanics boil down to holding buttons behind enemies in an adult "what's the time, mr wolf?" , gunplay that involves a lock on recticle with no free aim that occasionally doesn't work very well and either getting into basic brawling or legging it when you get seen. It has not aged well but that atmosphere is terrific. I wish Rockstar would revisit it and the Warriors, two games they absolutely nailed in terms of setting. The Warriors gameplay still holds up really well today.

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Still in Seattle and seriously, 

Spoiler

fuck those whistling bastards.


It's like being hunted down by a mad bunch of 

Spoiler

Roger Whittaker fans.

 

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