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The Last of Us Part 2

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21 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

I've learned very gradually over the years that when I assume someone is trolling, that's usually because my expectations of people are far higher than reality. 

Yeah someone dissagreeing with the hive mind must either be trolling or a just failure to meet your lofty expectations of people.

 

That's reasonable. 

 

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Maybe I’m high or something, but loading a save game in this is absolutely insane, I must be missing something. All my slots are full, so when I select load, it warns me that I’ll lose my autosave- then overwrites the save game with the autosave, deleting the save data I wanted to load. In what POSSIBLE dimension would that be what ANYONE would want?

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57 minutes ago, Raoull duke said:

Some of y'all haven't played the first game in years and are misremembering. Ellie had her knife in the first game, only Joel needed shivs, 

  Reveal hidden contents

As does Abby now. 

"The combat has had a complete bloody overhaul" we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here, very lightly tweaked, fair enough but a complete bloody overhaul is laughable. New Weapons? One new weapon. The rest are ostensibly just reskins. New enemies? OK. I'll give you the stalkers. The shamblers are basically just bloaters, the wall enemies are completely fucking pointless beyond the first jump scare. And

 

  Reveal hidden contents

that interminable boss fight where it was just all the infected stuck together (LOL so creative) so was no different to fighting a combination of them save for that it took a lot more damage to kill the main part of it. 

 

Fuck it, I'm downgrading it from really good to just good. 

 

Also I played it on the hardest setting. Done the original on grounded mode a few weeks ago so this was a walk in the part comparatively. 

The combat feels much better because the controls are more responsive, the levels are more open laterally and vertically, the stealth is better now you can go prone, hide, etc. and actually avoid killing at all,  it keeps things moving with new features like attack dogs and improved enemy AI, the melee is miles better with the inclusion of dodge, you can also alter loads of options to tweak it to your hearts content. 
 

Some of the level design is incredible. 
 

Spoiler

Skyscraper, the tunnels, hospital etc.

It’s way more ambitious and polished, right down to allies who are nowhere near as annoying as you’re making out - which seems to be your only real criticism, story aside. 
 

And the Halo style 3 way battles are a thing to behold. 

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Being able to go prone and fire weapons 360 from that position Max Payne style is the biggest and best change to combat. 

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Made it to

 

Spoiler

Abby!!! I’ve steered clear of all spoilers and this genuinely surprised me. And realising I was witnessing the other side of the hospital... well, slaughter... from the other side. Wow


I have to agree with the “hive mind” here; I’ve come straight from my first play through of the first game and the combat is far more natural and pacey, little things like the auto-aim for bricks & bottles, going prone, the layout of the combat areas being amenable to using it to hide and flank enemies. It feels like a level up in polish. 

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My nerves. 
 

“what can we do to make stalkers even more terrifying ?”



 

”let’s make then come out the fucking walls”

 

you cunts 

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I’ve clocked both games, so am in a decent position to comment.

 

The 2nd is definitely better overall; bigger scope and story, scale and better graphical presentation, but combat is pretty much the same as the first game, (infact everything is very similar to the first game.  From the basic crafting, item pick ups and core gameplay loop; from cutscene to walking sim, to exploration to combat. The controls still have that slight lag and clunkiness, the cover system is seriously last gen and the gameplay boundaries are still very much in place.

 

It’s a really impressive game though; better looking and tweaked,  but at the core of it, though it’s still very much from from the same stock, with nothing really radically that that much different from the first game.  Given the development time and budget, they could have changed so much to make it very different from the first. Not complaining though I loved it.

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1 hour ago, PeteBrant said:

My nerves. 
 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

“what can we do to make stalkers even more terrifying ?”

 


 

”let’s make then come out the fucking walls”

 

you cunts 
 

 

 

Phew ... and relax ...

 

oh . Wait . 
 

HOSPITAL.... MOTHER FUCKER !

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6 hours ago, Raoull duke said:

 

 

 

Most of the serious gameplay flaws revolve around the stealth mechanics. The stealth kills are incredibly loud and other enemies never notice.

 

 


This is absolutely not a legitimate flaw in the combat by the way.

The enemies don't on the whole make more or different noise while being killed as they do when generally going about their business. They're either screeching and howling or clicking constantly. Maybe there's a slightly different choking sound, but they're essentially insane by this point and controlled by some sort of parasitic spore thing. They're not going to think "Hmm, that doesn't sound like Tarquin's usual pained moans and hacks, I better go and check if he's still not alright."

Try actually listening during the next kill. Apart from a final squish of a blade there's no real discernible volume or noise change from their usual behaviour. it's a nonsensical criticism. 

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1 hour ago, kerraig UK said:


 

 


This is absolutely not a legitimate flaw in the combat by the way.

The enemies don't on the whole make more or different noise while being killed as they do when generally going about their business. They're either screeching and howling or clicking constantly. Maybe there's a slightly different choking sound, but they're essentially insane by this point and controlled by some sort of parasitic spore thing. They're not going to think "Hmm, that doesn't sound like Tarquin's usual pained moans and hacks, I better go and check if he's still not alright."

Try actually listening during the next kill. Apart from a final squish of a blade there's no real discernible volume or noise change from their usual behaviour. it's a nonsensical criticism. 

You know there are non-infected enemies in this game too right?

 

I take the “stealth kills aren’t loud” artifice as a given, like not being able to climb on something because it has a small amount of ivy growing on it.

 

So, Seattle Day 3 spoilers:

Spoiler

10/10 boat antics, especially when I holed up in a train car popping cultists.

 

You absolutely feel like garbage after that final kill as Ellie. Not as bad as you feel about maxing out your upgrades and ammo just in time to not fire a shot.

 

If this were any sane developer and publisher, we’d have ended there on a cliffhanger and a “TLOU Part 3: Coming November 2020” title card and we’d all pay £40 to finish the story, but Neil Druckmann is an energy vampire powered by gamer sweat rather than money, so now I get to play some more.

 

I really hope it’s punchy and effective, and not just someone marching around my living room banging a pot while shouting “REVENGE BAD” for 17 hours.

 

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Just now, Spacehost said:

You know there are non-infected enemies in this game too right?

 

I take the “stealth kills aren’t loud” artifice as a given, like not being able to climb on something because it has a small amount of ivy growing on it.

 

So, Seattle Day 3 spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

10/10 boat antics, especially when I holed up in a train car popping cultists.

 

You absolutely feel like garbage after that final kill as Ellie. Not as bad as you feel about making out your upgrades and ammo just in time to not fire a shot.

 

If this were any sane developer and publisher, we’d have ended there on a cliffhanger and a “TLOU Part 3: Coming November 2020” title card and we’d all pay £40 to finish the story, but Neil Druckmann is an energy vampire powered by gamer sweat rather than money, so now I get to play some more.

 

I really hope it’s punchy and effective, and not just someone marching around my living room banging a pot while shouting “REVENGE BAD” for 17 hours.

 


I do indeed. Maybe i'm not far in enough to have seen this artifice.

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7 hours ago, dvdx2 said:

I’ve clocked both games, so am in a decent position to comment.

 

The 2nd is definitely better overall; bigger scope and story, scale and better graphical presentation, but combat is pretty much the same as the first game, (infact everything is very similar to the first game.  From the basic crafting, item pick ups and core gameplay loop; from cutscene to walking sim, to exploration to combat. The controls still have that slight lag and clunkiness, the cover system is seriously last gen and the gameplay boundaries are still very much in place.

 

It’s a really impressive game though; better looking and tweaked,  but at the core of it, though it’s still very much from from the same stock, with nothing really radically that that much different from the first game.  Given the development time and budget, they could have changed so much to make it very different from the first. Not complaining though I loved it.

Everyone here has played both games so I wouldn’t say you’re in any better position to comment. 
 

It’s a sequel so of course it’s broadly the same, any changes are incremental and evolutionary rather than a complete overhaul, but there are improvements and differences, however small they may be. The question is whether you think something is fundamentally game breaking enough to consider it ‘a serious flaw’ personally I think that’s a huge over reaction. 
 

As for the cover system being ‘seriously last gen’ could you give an example of a game you’d consider uses more ‘current gen’ cover mechanics? 

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9 hours ago, PeteBrant said:

Phew ... and relax ...

 

oh . Wait . 
 

 

  Hide contents

HOSPITAL.... MOTHER FUCKER !

 


That bit was fucking terrifying.

 

 

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9 hours ago, kerraig UK said:


 

 


This is absolutely not a legitimate flaw in the combat by the way.

The enemies don't on the whole make more or different noise while being killed as they do when generally going about their business. They're either screeching and howling or clicking constantly. Maybe there's a slightly different choking sound, but they're essentially insane by this point and controlled by some sort of parasitic spore thing. They're not going to think "Hmm, that doesn't sound like Tarquin's usual pained moans and hacks, I better go and check if he's still not alright."

Try actually listening during the next kill. Apart from a final squish of a blade there's no real discernible volume or noise change from their usual behaviour. it's a nonsensical criticism. 

The other thing to bear in mind is that you are hearing the kill from Ellie’s point of view . You are hearing what she hears with the head of the person you are strangling right next to yours . That doesn’t automatically mean someone 10foot away With their back to you , or in a different room with all the ambient sound is going to hear the same . 
plus , you in know , it’s a game . There’s a balance between realism and enjoyment . If you literally had to ensure you were completely out of earshot for every kill, it would completely ruin the game . 

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12 hours ago, Raoull duke said:

the hive mind

 

:facepalm:

 

 

I am still plodding through the game, just started Day Three, but am starting to find it a bit of a chore if I'm honest. I'm not sure if it is the endlessly grim atmosphere, the amount of horror being inflicted on everyone, the pacing, or maybe the gameplay that is slowing me down. After the initial enthusiasm of a few four hour sessions I now play an hour or so every couple of days and, unlike the first few days of playing, have no difficulty in putting the controller down and walking away. 

 

I'm still enjoying the story, all of the gameplay elements are huge improvements over the original, and it looks and sounds absolutely incredible (although the score seems way more intrusive, and even a little repetitive, when compared with the original) but I think the loop of wander around a bleak but often spectacular outdoor area followed by another exploration of a building by torchlight is starting to bore me a little. It doesn't help that I feel the need to explore every single building of course.

 

Hopefully I am nearing the end now.

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12 minutes ago, Mike S said:

 

:facepalm:

 

 

I am still plodding through the game, just started Day Three, but am starting to find it a bit of a chore if I'm honest. I'm not sure if it is the endlessly grim atmosphere, the amount of horror being inflicted on everyone, the pacing, or maybe the gameplay that is slowing me down. After the initial enthusiasm of a few four hour sessions I now play an hour or so every couple of days and, unlike the first few days of playing, have no difficulty in putting the controller down and walking away. 

 

I'm still enjoying the story, all of the gameplay elements are huge improvements over the original, and it looks and sounds absolutely incredible (although the score seems way more intrusive, and even a little repetitive, when compared with the original) but I think the loop of wander around a bleak but often spectacular outdoor area followed by another exploration of a building by torchlight is starting to bore me a little. It doesn't help that I feel the need to explore every single building of course.

 

Hopefully I am nearing the end now.

 

I think that was the atmosphere they were going for, but yeah, I thought it was a little boring at times.

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2 hours ago, Stanley said:

As for the cover system being ‘seriously last gen’ could you give an example of a game you’d consider uses more ‘current gen’ cover mechanics? 


Cover systems aren’t even last gen. They should’ve been binned when the 360 gen finished. 

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2 hours ago, Stanley said:

Everyone here has played both games so I wouldn’t say you’re in any better position to comment. 


The latest dancing on a pin is that people who think the combat is a bit different haven’t played the last one recently enough. If that fails it’s the last gasp Rllmuk Godwin’s Law Hive-Mind troll-defence.

 

I was on my endless Grounded TLOU & Left Behind play-through up until the day this one came out. Still not finished. :coffee:

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I so pleased I can still enjoy AAA interactive entertainment, without the nagging doubt that it should do better all the time.


I get this with films and it’s fucking exhausting. 
 

8 year old me is still in awe that a game like this exists atall. 

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22 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

 @Mike S

 

I'd suggest pushing on to the next section. 

 

I'll definitely be finishing it as I need to see how Ellie's story pans out. It's just not as gripping for me now as it has been. I think maybe the story arc/motivation of the characters isn't as strong as the original either so I am less motivated myself.. 

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5 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

I so pleased I can still enjoy AAA interactive entertainment, without the nagging doubt that it should do better all the time.


I get this with films and it’s fucking exhausting. 
 

8 year old me is still in awe that a game like exists like this atall. 


Yup, me too. I’m always rather thankful I was a kid when the ZX81 and Spectrum were around. Everything they did seemed like magic to me at the time, and the feeling has never really left me. 

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Friendly AI running around was a bit jarring in the first game, but it's so, so much better in this one. They stay behind you for the most part. They also never, ever alert the enemies, and are far more helpful in this one. Also they're not always there like little Ellie was in the first game. It's totally a moot point.

It's like complaining about sharp elbows or carpet textures. 

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14 hours ago, Raoull duke said:

Some of y'all haven't played the first game in years and are misremembering. Ellie had her knife in the first game, only Joel needed shivs, 

  Reveal hidden contents

As does Abby now. 

"The combat has had a complete bloody overhaul" we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here, very lightly tweaked, fair enough but a complete bloody overhaul is laughable. New Weapons? One new weapon. The rest are ostensibly just reskins. New enemies? OK. I'll give you the stalkers. The shamblers are basically just bloaters, the wall enemies are completely fucking pointless beyond the first jump scare.


I wouldn't say a complete overhaul, but very lightly tweaked is underselling it. The dodge alone makes a huge difference to the combat. So does the ability to go completely prone and hide in grass, under cars, beds etc. And you are still able to aim and fire from a prone position. Silencers give you more stealth options. The jump button makes fights more dynamic. You can do aerial kills. Crafting is expanded (explosive arrows!).  You can now pit Infected against humans, something you could only do to a smaller extent in Left Behind.

Spoiler

Also, Abby has a different dynamic due to her Momentum mechanic, rewarding more agressive play.


It's not just the new Infected, but there is more variety in humans as well, they now use dogs for example and 

Spoiler

armour in the case of the Rattlers.


Add better AI and much better level design and combat as a whole is just way more fun. This goes for exploration as well, due to more variety in the little puzzles and the ways you interact with the environment and traverse them. Not only can you swim for example, it's actually a tool in combat as well. And there are more and better set-pieces on top of all that. Heck, you even have an optional slow-mo mode. John Woo would be proud. And you can play guitar!

It's just a more fun and better game mechanically. 60 fps on PS5 would be bliss.

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6 minutes ago, Mike S said:

 

I'll definitely be finishing it as I need to see how Ellie's story pans out. It's just not as gripping for me now as it has been. I think maybe the story arc/motivation of the characters isn't as strong as the original either so I am less motivated myself.. 

 

I struggled at just about the same point you're at now.  I was getting a little bored with the pattern of getting to a new area, some enemies appearing and needing to be taken out, then scavenging for every last item you could find.  Then the game just got better and better from this point, in my opinion.  You're a long way from the end, but don't let that put you off.  There's so much good stuff to come.

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3 minutes ago, Vemsie said:


I wouldn't say a complete overhaul, but very lightly tweaked is underselling it. The dodge alone makes a huge difference to the combat. So does the ability to go completely prone and hide in grass, under cars, beds etc. And you are still able to aim and fire from a prone position. Silencers give you more stealth options. The jump button makes fights more dynamic. You can do aerial kills. Crafting is expanded (explosive arrows!).  You can now pit Infected against humans, something you could only do to a smaller extent in Left Behind.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, Abby has a different dynamic due to her Momentum mechanic, rewarding more agressive play.


It's not just the new Infected, but there is more variety in humans as well, they now use dogs for example and 

  Reveal hidden contents

armour in the case of the Rattlers.


Add better AI and much better level design and combat as a whole is just way more fun. This goes for exploration as well, due to more variety in the little puzzles and the ways you interact with the environment and traverse them. Not only can you swim for example, it's actually a tool in combat as well. And there are more and better set-pieces on top of all that. Heck, you even have an optional slow-mo mode. John Woo would be proud.

It's just a more fun and better game mechanically. 60 fps on PS5 would be bliss.

 

I honestly think people who say the combat is dull in this game are just poor players. The game gives you way more options than the usual fair so when someone trots out 'waste high cover' as a criticism, when the game doesn't even have snap-to cover or any sort of 'stop and pop' peeking mechanics, I just think of the sort of person who has to stop to turn the camera before moving forward again, like that Polygon Doom 2016 video. 

 

Now i'm not saying that less skilled players shouldn't have fun but all the tools are there and if you don't use them it's a bit poor to critique the game for what you can't do.

 

I've watched my wife play the game on the easiest difficulty and it practically plays itself but shes having a great time and not complaining that enemies now have the vision and hearing of pensioners

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, catinthehat said:

 

I struggled at just about the same point you're at now.  I was getting a little bored with the pattern of getting to a new area, some enemies appearing and needing to be taken out, then scavenging for every last item you could find.  Then the game just got better and better from this point, in my opinion.  You're a long way from the end, but don't let that put you off.  There's so much good stuff to come.

 

Excellent.

 

I shall crack on tonight!

 

The highlight for me so far (Day Two Spoiler) was :

Spoiler

the flashback to the museum with Joel which was a magnificent piece of properly wondrous story telling. Being reminded of (relatively) happier times for Ellie and her enthusiasm for the exhibits came just at a time someone must have been cutting onions somewhere in our kitchen. I am so invested in Ellie finding some form of happiness at the end of this as her endless struggle is genuinely painful which says an awful lot about ND's development of her as an empathetic character.

 

I have enjoyed all the flashbacks so far though as they provide a much needed change of tone.  Could maybe use more...

 

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Having ended Day 3 I was also pretty much done with it (spoilers up to before the end of Day 3)

 

Spoiler

I think part of it is structural. They introduced Shamblers, like, 8 hours ago and I've not seen one in an age. Stalkers have turned up maybe twice since they were introduced four hours ago. I only got to fight one Bloater that wasn't in a (KICK ASS) flashback and that was in a tiny arena. Maybe if the other infected were more in the mix it would feel a bit less stale.

 

They brought on this cult so I'd have non-WLF people to go medieval on, but I dunno what significance they have, if any, to Ellie's story except to act as a preamble to them being the human enemies in Abby's campaign. Shot the last one of those from a dispassionate distance over an hour before the end of Day 3.

 

Ellie has barely interacted with her supposed girlfriend more than a few times in three days and I'm not getting the emotional connection really- that's partly to blame on the Hollyoaks twist I guessed the moment Chekhov's Boyfriend turned up.

 

I'm sure there's a lot left to see but it's starting to feel a bit threadbare, and the emotional core of the story just doesn't feel like it's there in the same way as TLOU. I'm not even really invested in the revenge angle, except Ellie is having a sort of C-Grade Captain Ahab experience.

 

It's all very well performed, and the writing is very natural, and everything is pretty and the combat is good, but I dunno if I've got enough investment (17 hours in!) to get to the finale beyond resolving a cliffhanger.

 

We'll see. The Abby stuff should be a little different at least. As long as I'm not collecting Pogs instead of trading cards.

 

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Or have put the game on hard mode because it’s the edgy thing to do, then complain about the gameplay. Playing it on hard is fine if you want to spend the entire time waiting behind a chimney and tediously creeping about in case you get a one-hit fail and not having enough resources to make cool as F limb-shattering traps and explosives. Play the game with the full set of tools available first and then have a pop about the ‘gameplay’.

 

edit- reply to DbL

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8 minutes ago, Down by Law said:

I honestly think people who say the combat is dull in this game are just poor players.

I'd guess they're playing on Normal. Hard has been a walkover for me more or less- a few fuckups not withstanding- so I imagine Normal will just be a bit too easy to be satisfying. It could really do with being rebalanced- and no, getting the player to do it in a menu is not an excuse.

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