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The Last of Us Part 2


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1 hour ago, SpagMasterSwift said:
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Made my way around a seemingly empty floor of a building looking for a gas mask, found it and then heard noises outside...

I’m guessing I’m in the second half of the game.

You are indeed, in fact I'd say you're into the final third … ish.

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I'm absolutely stunned. Naughty Dog's tale of love, hate, revenge and forgiveness came to end and for me this morning, after a 34 hour epic.

 

By the end of it all, I wasn't sure who was right or wrong, and whether it even mattered.

 

Well done Naughty Dog. 10/10.

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12 hours ago, Raoull duke said:

I would have liked them to have fixed all the flaws. Which was my original point.

 

Repeatedly saying 'all the flaws' isn't much to base a discussion off. Can you articulate your issues with either game?

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21 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

 

Repeatedly saying 'all the flaws' isn't much to base a discussion off. Can you articulate your issues with either game?


I’m assuming ‘all the flaws’ actually just means ‘I didn’t like the combat’, which is, of course very different.

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I can't be the only once who goes "ooh that is a nice lamp", "that wooden floor is gorgeous" and "that sideboard would look great in my living room!" when scavenging.

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Nothing much to say except I've finally found some time to get stuck into this and its flipping amazing. Love the story, the writing, the design, the stealth combat, the scavenging (which makes you really appreciate the details)...

I'm sure i'll feel like its too long at some point but its an incredible achievement.

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35 minutes ago, df0 said:

I can't be the only once who goes "ooh that is a nice lamp", "that wooden floor is gorgeous" and "that sideboard would look great in my living room!" when scavenging.

I saw a great coffee table that would really work with my corner sofa.

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11 hours ago, Stanley said:

Sure, once you’ve explained why you think it’s flawed in order for me to have something to go on. 

 

2 hours ago, CarloOos said:

 

Repeatedly saying 'all the flaws' isn't much to base a discussion off. Can you articulate your issues with either game?

 

2 hours ago, Mystacon said:


I’m assuming ‘all the flaws’ actually just means ‘I didn’t like the combat’, which is, of course very different.

 

Most of the serious gameplay flaws revolve around the stealth mechanics. The stealth kills are incredibly loud and other enemies never notice. And while you're creeping around all stealthy friendly AI will sometimes walk right past or right into enemies. Now they obviously knew this was a problem and just had it so the friendly AI's can't fuck up your stealth attempts no matter how obvious it is they should be. This is much better than dopey AI getting you killed but it's still a real immersion killer when it happens. They have improved it very slightly, in that if you're crouched friendlies are crouched same with prone etc, but they still walk right into sight lines and sometimes literally just walk into enemies. And enemy AI is every bit as inconsistent as it was in the first game. 

 

There are other flaws too. But those are the most serious.  

 

I absolutely loved the first game despite these problems. I really like this too, I'm not saying it isn't good. Just that I haven't enjoyed it as much as I did the first, and it's very disappointing that they haven't ironed out these big obvious wrinkles. 

 

Add that to the story being generally weaker, don't get me wrong the writing is still mostly fantastic, the characters and dialogue are really in a league of their own in terms of video game writing:


 

Spoiler

 

the second half was jarring at first but like season 2 of The Wire in time I came to really appreciate it. But towards the end the attention to the quality of the writing seemed to take backseat to just shoehorning in ever more combat. Would Tommy really want Ellie to go off on her own seeking out a woman as dangerous to fuck with as Abby? It struck me as completely out of character. But whatever maybe getting shot in the head at close range (yeah I guess it was just kind of weird that he was even alive at that point) changed him.

 

The way that whole scene played out was so fucking shit. Neither Ellie nor Dina made any of the relevant points that should have been made to counter his bullshit. 

 

Would Abby really be in such a hurry to seek out and join another militaristic organization after what went down with the WLF? Would Ellie really insist on fighting to the death after cutting Abby down from being crucified and her only interested in caring for the kid. Was she also gonna kill the little Asian kid? Or just let him die on the boat? Or what nurse him back to health after killing Abby? Again it just doesn't seem right to me. Yeah she didn't go through with it, but even starting the fight was fucking stupid. 

 

 

So all in all I've been disappointed by the game while also acknowledging that it's still really quite good. And cunts are crying about it like fuck because when gamers like something no one is allowed to point out it's flawed. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, df0 said:

I can't be the only once who goes "ooh that is a nice lamp", "that wooden floor is gorgeous" and "that sideboard would look great in my living room!" when scavenging.

I love the work benches. And am going to build one. 

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@Raoull duke Must admit I agree with most your comments about the very ending, I felt it was forced, implausible and doubt it will leave the same cultural impression that the original did. I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the game though.

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17 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

@Raoull duke Must admit I agree with most your comments about the very ending, I felt it was forced, implausible and doubt it will leave the same cultural impression that the original did. I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the game though.

Spoiler

The writing was hit and miss before the ending too. Like Abby really went after Joel as though there wasn't another element of that whole story that was interesting. Yeah the one person in the world who is immune to this mad shit. Her group knew the story and none of them put it together who she was or even seemed interested in the concept of immunity. The fireflies just moved to California like yeah fuck it and forgot about her. Joel and Tommy meet a bunch of strangers with military insignia on their arms and just blurt out who they are like they haven't a care in the world despite Joel having made enemies from one end of the country to the other. 

 

It's still way better writing than any other big budget game. But it really doesn't stack up well against the first. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Raoull duke said:
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The writing was hit and miss before the ending too. Like Abby really went after Joel as though there wasn't another element of that whole story that was interesting. Yeah the one person in the world who is immune to this mad shit. Her group knew the story and none of them out it together who she was or even seemed interested in the concept of immunity. The fireflies just moved to santa California like yeah fuck it and forgot about her. Joel and Tommy meet a bunch of strangers with military insignia on their arms and just blurt out who they are like they haven't a care in the world despite Joel having made enemies from one end of the country to the other. 

 

It's still way better writing than any other big budget game. But it really doesn't stack up well against the first. 

 

Spoiler

Abby is quite inconsistent throughout. During one of her flashbacks she talks about wanting to rejoin the Firelies, but when Owen mentions finding them she says she'd rather go in the opposite direction (or words to that affect) with nothing to establish her change of heart. And then at the end of the game she'd looking for them again. Has she become disillusioned with militarised groups or not?

 

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1 hour ago, Raoull duke said:

 

 

 

Most of the serious gameplay flaws revolve around the stealth mechanics. The stealth kills are incredibly loud and other enemies never notice. And while you're creeping around all stealthy friendly AI will sometimes walk right past or right into enemies. Now they obviously knew this was a problem and just had it so the friendly AI's can't fuck up your stealth attempts no matter how obvious it is they should be. This is much better than dopey AI getting you killed but it's still a real immersion killer when it happens. They have improved it very slightly, in that if you're crouched friendlies are crouched same with prone etc, but they still walk right into sight lines and sometimes literally just walk into enemies. And enemy AI is every bit as inconsistent as it was in the first game. 

 

There are other flaws too. But those are the most serious.  

 

I absolutely loved the first game despite these problems. I really like this too, I'm not saying it isn't good. Just that I haven't enjoyed it as much as I did the first, and it's very disappointing that they haven't ironed out these big obvious wrinkles. 

 

Add that to the story being generally weaker, don't get me wrong the writing is still mostly fantastic, the characters and dialogue are really in a league of their own in terms of video game writing:


 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

the second half was jarring at first but like season 2 of The Wire in time I came to really appreciate it. But towards the end the attention to the quality of the writing seemed to take backseat to just shoehorning in ever more combat. Would Tommy really want Ellie to go off on her own seeking out a woman as dangerous to fuck with as Abby? It struck me as completely out of character. But whatever maybe getting shot in the head at close range (yeah I guess it was just kind of weird that he was even alive at that point) changed him.

 

The way that whole scene played out was so fucking shit. Neither Ellie nor Dina made any of the relevant points that should have been made to counter his bullshit. 

 

Would Abby really be in such a hurry to seek out and join another militaristic organization after what went down with the WLF? Would Ellie really insist on fighting to the death after cutting Abby down from being crucified and her only interested in caring for the kid. Was she also gonna kill the little Asian kid? Or just let him die on the boat? Or what nurse him back to health after killing Abby? Again it just doesn't seem right to me. Yeah she didn't go through with it, but even starting the fight was fucking stupid. 

 

 

So all in all I've been disappointed by the game while also acknowledging that it's still really quite good. And cunts are crying about it like fuck because when gamers like something no one is allowed to point out it's flawed. 

 

 

Well no you just didn’t explain what you considered the flaws to be so no one could argue with you, no one is crying. 
 

I’d consider your problems with it fairly minor tbh, it’s certainly not something I’ve come across too often, or even noticed at all, but still I accept that some people are more sensitive to stuff like that so I understand your frustrations if it’s constantly pulling you out of the experience, certainly didn’t for me though and generally I found the ally NPC’s unobtrusive and pretty helpful much of the time by engaging with the enemy or helping with takedowns etc. In that respect I think they behave better than the the first game. 
 

On the whole I found enemy AI better too as they flank you, creep up on you etc. and owing to much better and bigger level design, just more fun to engage with. 
 

I found the gameplay much more improved in this, encounters are much more emergent and dynamic, you have jump, prone and dodge in addition to new weapons, new enemy types, bigger locations, I thought stealth into and out of combat is much more fluid, character animation is better and more dynamic, control and weapon feedback is sharper and more forceful - and  I felt like your character is less leaden yet still feels weighty with inertia. 
 

One of the main improvements I like over part 1 is that you can enter and exit an encounter without having to kill all the enemies, in the first it often sealed off the arenas, which were much smaller anyway, and wouldn’t allow you to

progress until you’d triggered a certain point or killed them all - it felt more like a death match than part of a story - it all blends much more smoothly in this and you can stealth your way undetected through whole encounters if you choose, and if you’re deft enough of course. 
 

You know, a lot of these improvements are are kind of iterative upgrades, there’s nothing revolutionary compared with the first game, but it is better every which way game play wise, and I do think dodge and prone add an awful lot. you can also target limbs, set enemies against each other, traps are fucking awesome, and the melee way more brutal and effective - it’s actually a viable approach here rather than a last chance thing. 
 

For someone who loved the first game I don’t see how you can be disappointed, at least with the combat, but you are, so, oh well..

 

I just took issue with you saying the combat is exactly the same, it demonstrably isn’t. 

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The combat has had a complete bloody overhaul. You no longer have to fashion shivs to kill Clickers, in fact shivs seem to have disappeared completely. Melee combat is vastly improved and you can now also dodge. There are new weapons, more varied combat situations and a wider variety of enemies requiring different techniques to kill them. The bow and arrow has been improved as have the other weapons which makes combat more precise without removing completely the panicked difficulty in lining up a shot properly.

 

The criticism about NPCs not being noticed by enemies has been addressed to an extent, although not eradicated totally. In twenty hours I’ve only had one situation where my buddy was just ignored completely, whereas in the first game it happened often. As for enemies not noticing when you stealth kill people nearby, I can only assume that is happening on lower levels of difficulty as I’m on Hard and constantly getting spotted unless I make a kill out of sight and a fair way away from their mates.

 

Hard is challenging but still let’s you have great fun with the weapons. Anyone who’s tried even harder levels knows that the most effective weapons in the game are often the bottles and the bricks.

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, womblingfree said:

The combat has had a complete bloody overhaul. You no longer have to fashion shivs to kill Clickers, in fact shivs seem to have disappeared completely. Melee combat is vastly improved and you can now also dodge. There are new weapons, more varied combat situations and a wider variety of enemies requiring different techniques to kill them. The bow and arrow has been improved as have the other weapons which makes combat more precise without removing completely the panicked difficulty in lining up a shot properly.

 

The criticism about NPCs not being noticed by enemies has been addressed to an extent, although not eradicated totally. In twenty hours I’ve only had one situation where my buddy was just ignored completely, whereas in the first game it happened often. As for enemies not noticing when you stealth kill people nearby, I can only assume that is happening on lower levels of difficulty as I’m on Hard and constantly getting spotted unless I make a kill out of sight and a fair way away from their mates.

 

Hard is challenging but still let’s you have great fun with the weapons. Anyone who’s tried even harder levels knows that the most effective weapons in the game are often the bottles and the bricks.

 

 

 

 

Some of y'all haven't played the first game in years and are misremembering. Ellie had her knife in the first game, only Joel needed shivs, 

Spoiler

As does Abby now. 

"The combat has had a complete bloody overhaul" we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here, very lightly tweaked, fair enough but a complete bloody overhaul is laughable. New Weapons? One new weapon. The rest are ostensibly just reskins. New enemies? OK. I'll give you the stalkers. The shamblers are basically just bloaters, the wall enemies are completely fucking pointless beyond the first jump scare. And

 

Spoiler

that interminable boss fight where it was just all the infected stuck together (LOL so creative) so was no different to fighting a combination of them save for that it took a lot more damage to kill the main part of it. 

 

Fuck it, I'm downgrading it from really good to just good. 

 

Also I played it on the hardest setting. Done the original on grounded mode a few weeks ago so this was a walk in the part comparatively. 

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I've learned very gradually over the years that when I assume someone is trolling, that's usually because my expectations of people are far higher than reality. 

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21 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

I've learned very gradually over the years that when I assume someone is trolling, that's usually because my expectations of people are far higher than reality. 

Yeah someone dissagreeing with the hive mind must either be trolling or a just failure to meet your lofty expectations of people.

 

That's reasonable. 

 

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Maybe I’m high or something, but loading a save game in this is absolutely insane, I must be missing something. All my slots are full, so when I select load, it warns me that I’ll lose my autosave- then overwrites the save game with the autosave, deleting the save data I wanted to load. In what POSSIBLE dimension would that be what ANYONE would want?

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57 minutes ago, Raoull duke said:

Some of y'all haven't played the first game in years and are misremembering. Ellie had her knife in the first game, only Joel needed shivs, 

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As does Abby now. 

"The combat has had a complete bloody overhaul" we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here, very lightly tweaked, fair enough but a complete bloody overhaul is laughable. New Weapons? One new weapon. The rest are ostensibly just reskins. New enemies? OK. I'll give you the stalkers. The shamblers are basically just bloaters, the wall enemies are completely fucking pointless beyond the first jump scare. And

 

  Reveal hidden contents

that interminable boss fight where it was just all the infected stuck together (LOL so creative) so was no different to fighting a combination of them save for that it took a lot more damage to kill the main part of it. 

 

Fuck it, I'm downgrading it from really good to just good. 

 

Also I played it on the hardest setting. Done the original on grounded mode a few weeks ago so this was a walk in the part comparatively. 

The combat feels much better because the controls are more responsive, the levels are more open laterally and vertically, the stealth is better now you can go prone, hide, etc. and actually avoid killing at all,  it keeps things moving with new features like attack dogs and improved enemy AI, the melee is miles better with the inclusion of dodge, you can also alter loads of options to tweak it to your hearts content. 
 

Some of the level design is incredible. 
 

Spoiler

Skyscraper, the tunnels, hospital etc.

It’s way more ambitious and polished, right down to allies who are nowhere near as annoying as you’re making out - which seems to be your only real criticism, story aside. 
 

And the Halo style 3 way battles are a thing to behold. 

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Made it to

 

Spoiler

Abby!!! I’ve steered clear of all spoilers and this genuinely surprised me. And realising I was witnessing the other side of the hospital... well, slaughter... from the other side. Wow


I have to agree with the “hive mind” here; I’ve come straight from my first play through of the first game and the combat is far more natural and pacey, little things like the auto-aim for bricks & bottles, going prone, the layout of the combat areas being amenable to using it to hide and flank enemies. It feels like a level up in polish. 

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I’ve clocked both games, so am in a decent position to comment.

 

The 2nd is definitely better overall; bigger scope and story, scale and better graphical presentation, but combat is pretty much the same as the first game, (infact everything is very similar to the first game.  From the basic crafting, item pick ups and core gameplay loop; from cutscene to walking sim, to exploration to combat. The controls still have that slight lag and clunkiness, the cover system is seriously last gen and the gameplay boundaries are still very much in place.

 

It’s a really impressive game though; better looking and tweaked,  but at the core of it, though it’s still very much from from the same stock, with nothing really radically that that much different from the first game.  Given the development time and budget, they could have changed so much to make it very different from the first. Not complaining though I loved it.

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1 hour ago, PeteBrant said:

My nerves. 
 

 

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“what can we do to make stalkers even more terrifying ?”

 


 

”let’s make then come out the fucking walls”

 

you cunts 
 

 

 

Phew ... and relax ...

 

oh . Wait . 
 

HOSPITAL.... MOTHER FUCKER !

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6 hours ago, Raoull duke said:

 

 

 

Most of the serious gameplay flaws revolve around the stealth mechanics. The stealth kills are incredibly loud and other enemies never notice.

 

 


This is absolutely not a legitimate flaw in the combat by the way.

The enemies don't on the whole make more or different noise while being killed as they do when generally going about their business. They're either screeching and howling or clicking constantly. Maybe there's a slightly different choking sound, but they're essentially insane by this point and controlled by some sort of parasitic spore thing. They're not going to think "Hmm, that doesn't sound like Tarquin's usual pained moans and hacks, I better go and check if he's still not alright."

Try actually listening during the next kill. Apart from a final squish of a blade there's no real discernible volume or noise change from their usual behaviour. it's a nonsensical criticism. 

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1 hour ago, kerraig UK said:


 

 


This is absolutely not a legitimate flaw in the combat by the way.

The enemies don't on the whole make more or different noise while being killed as they do when generally going about their business. They're either screeching and howling or clicking constantly. Maybe there's a slightly different choking sound, but they're essentially insane by this point and controlled by some sort of parasitic spore thing. They're not going to think "Hmm, that doesn't sound like Tarquin's usual pained moans and hacks, I better go and check if he's still not alright."

Try actually listening during the next kill. Apart from a final squish of a blade there's no real discernible volume or noise change from their usual behaviour. it's a nonsensical criticism. 

You know there are non-infected enemies in this game too right?

 

I take the “stealth kills aren’t loud” artifice as a given, like not being able to climb on something because it has a small amount of ivy growing on it.

 

So, Seattle Day 3 spoilers:

Spoiler

10/10 boat antics, especially when I holed up in a train car popping cultists.

 

You absolutely feel like garbage after that final kill as Ellie. Not as bad as you feel about maxing out your upgrades and ammo just in time to not fire a shot.

 

If this were any sane developer and publisher, we’d have ended there on a cliffhanger and a “TLOU Part 3: Coming November 2020” title card and we’d all pay £40 to finish the story, but Neil Druckmann is an energy vampire powered by gamer sweat rather than money, so now I get to play some more.

 

I really hope it’s punchy and effective, and not just someone marching around my living room banging a pot while shouting “REVENGE BAD” for 17 hours.

 

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Just now, Spacehost said:

You know there are non-infected enemies in this game too right?

 

I take the “stealth kills aren’t loud” artifice as a given, like not being able to climb on something because it has a small amount of ivy growing on it.

 

So, Seattle Day 3 spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

10/10 boat antics, especially when I holed up in a train car popping cultists.

 

You absolutely feel like garbage after that final kill as Ellie. Not as bad as you feel about making out your upgrades and ammo just in time to not fire a shot.

 

If this were any sane developer and publisher, we’d have ended there on a cliffhanger and a “TLOU Part 3: Coming November 2020” title card and we’d all pay £40 to finish the story, but Neil Druckmann is an energy vampire powered by gamer sweat rather than money, so now I get to play some more.

 

I really hope it’s punchy and effective, and not just someone marching around my living room banging a pot while shouting “REVENGE BAD” for 17 hours.

 


I do indeed. Maybe i'm not far in enough to have seen this artifice.

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