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The Last of Us Part 2

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I think doing something like Seattle Day 1 but on a far bigger scale could be spectacular. Sneaking into buildings and experiencing largely linear, contained experiences, but also having this wide open space to explore, with the issue of finding a safe camping ground every night.

 

Not unlike a grounded Stalker, to be honest.

Seattle Day 1 spoilers. Thought it might be a suprise that's better experienced without spoiling for some.

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Just now, Vemsie said:

Going full open world would add nothing. It made everything look incredibly samey in The Phantom Pain and you often end up with copy paste outposts or whatever.

 

I reckon there are enough assets and open areas already in TLOU2 to make a compelling 'box' shaped environment rather than a series of corridors. MGSV is pretty expansive - I'm thinking something a lot denser and obstacle-strewn that doesn't need a vehicle to cross.

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Re: open world argument, spoiler for Seattle day 1:

 

Spoiler

If not fully open world at least as ‘wide’ as the early Seattle area where you’ve got about a square mile of space to explore - that section felt really fresh and emergent and I was disappointed there weren’t more areas like that (so far - still not at the end!). 


Edit - what @Spacehost said, basically. 

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1 minute ago, Pob said:

 

I reckon there are enough assets and open areas already in TLOU2 to make a compelling 'box' shaped environment rather than a series of corridors. MGSV is pretty expansive - I'm thinking something a lot denser and obstacle-strewn that doesn't need a vehicle to cross.

Let's not forget, when you went anywhere near a settlement or whatever, MGSV became very constrained- either via geography limiting you to a few ways in and out, or because you were exposed if you strayed far from the buildings, etc etc. The environments of TLOU could be equally or more constrained within a wider play area.

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I actually prefer the ‘wide linear’ approach ND take to a full blown open world like MGS V which was ultimately a bit empty anyway. I like the bespoke design of LOU2 which still offers plenty of space for improvisation by the player. 

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I'm on day 3 and I like it but it feels like a missed opportunity. So many enemies in this compared to before, you often get swamped pretty quickly with limited hiding options. AI is smarter which is cool, it feels more organic, but you need more options at your disposal. For example, disabling enemies by kneecapping the would be great. Shooting a gun out of hands etc. I want more ways to deal with the increasing number of people with guns. 

 

It's a better game with infected, Naughty Dog are not good at raw shooting because there isn't enough depth to the gameplay. The fist game had just enough, it limited the amount so each area felt like a little puzzle of sorts. 

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2 hours ago, Spacehost said:

Let's not forget, when you went anywhere near a settlement or whatever, MGSV became very constrained- either via geography limiting you to a few ways in and out, or because you were exposed if you strayed far from the buildings, etc etc. The environments of TLOU could be equally or more constrained within a wider play area.

 

I think what I really, really love about more open games is the opportunities they afford the player to take full control of the situation. To plan, observe, explore and execute with real player-driven intent, not just because the designers have a street lamp subtly shining on the path forward.

 

TLOU2 already has Ellie doing a lot of what, I feel, would be amazing if left in the hands of the player. A paper map that needs marking up as you explore, a radio that can be tuned to gain clues about where to find people, key locations having clear signifiers on the horizon that you journey towards (a la Breath of the Wild), street names and posters helping you to navigate, resources that can be scavenged to prepare you for the task ahead, areas that can be cleared of infected so that you feel a modicum of safety. With Uncharted 4 I feel as though the series reached the end of the line. With TLOU2 and PS5 I feel like there's something even greater for the series to evolve into.

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14 minutes ago, nakamura said:

I'm on day 3 and I like it but it feels like a missed opportunity. So many enemies in this compared to before, you often get swamped pretty quickly with limited hiding options. AI is smarter which is cool, it feels more organic, but you need more options at your disposal. For example, disabling enemies by kneecapping the would be great. Shooting a gun out of hands etc. I want more ways to deal with the increasing number of people with guns. 

 

It's a better game with infected, Naughty Dog are not good at raw shooting because there isn't enough depth to the gameplay. The fist game had just enough, it limited the amount so each area felt like a little puzzle of sorts. 

 

Traps and other environmental hazards are really underused in this. With the improved AI, dismemberment and less linear levels, I thought the game would offer the opportunity of creating more situations for cleverly taking enemies out and enjoying the carnage. Even with the equipment it does give you, there isn't much of an opportunity to use it - some of the weapons and equipment I don't think I used even once and I'm nearly at the end.

 

I just wish they'd done more with the amazing world they created instead of prolonging it with the same activities. I mean things like chucking an electrical cable into a pool of water to electrify it; why not a skill tree that lets you drag enemies underwater to drown them, pulling/pushing enemies off ledges etc; setting traps in outdoor areas, using the environment to your advantage. It doesn't feel like they fully exploited this magnificent world by giving the player much new to do. Even the skill trees that are there are fairly inconsequential and boring - you never look forward to getting to the end of those trees and unlocking something that changes the game.

 

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1 minute ago, nakamura said:

I'm on day 3 and I like it but it feels like a missed opportunity. So many enemies in this compared to before, you often get swamped pretty quickly with limited hiding options. AI is smarter which is cool, it feels more organic, but you need more options at your disposal. For example, disabling enemies by kneecapping the would be great. Shooting a gun out of hands etc. I want more ways to deal with the increasing number of people with guns. 

 

It's a better game with infected, Naughty Dog are not good at raw shooting because there isn't enough depth to the gameplay. The fist game had just enough, it limited the amount so each area felt like a little puzzle of sorts. 


You can shoot enemies in the leg. You can also stun them with smoke bombs or by throwing bricks and bottles in their face.
I think you have more than enough options. Combat zones are so open and vertical that you can easily break line of sight. And there are many ways to hide, be it under cars, in grass, behind cover or in water (when available). And that allow you to go for stealth options, or setting traps etc. Basically set-up a new approach.
I actually thought the fights against humans were better than against Infected, mainly because they are more dynamic. Human enemies tend to communicate more, use dogs etc. but they are also easier to take out, whereas some Infected are more bullet-spongy. Human enemies force you to use your entire toolset. I disagree that you don't have enough options for that. You can stealth (from up close or from a distance with certain tools), you can snipe if you have modded your weapons for that, you can go prone, you can hide, you can melee and dodge, you have smoke bombs and traps, you can grab enemies and use them as a human shield, you can literally get the jump on them, you have molotovs, you can sometimes pit Infected and humans against each other. I mean, what more do you want?
It's that dynamic between stealth , running, melee and going full-blown Rambo that Naughty Dog does so well in my opinion, probably better than any developer out there.

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Good points @Vemsie, particularly regarding how dynamic it is which I do like but I don't really agree it's that good. I felt in the original I was more often in control than not, having the element of surprise on my side. I've not found shooting limbs very effective and sometimes you'll shoot someone with a rifle and they act like it's a scratch, it's a rifle!

 

When it's good it's amazing, but i feel they haven't got the balance right. Sometimes it's just a bit of a drag. They have gone for volume and size over focus imo. 

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Kneecapping to hobble enemies def works....unless, like me, you are using the shotgun or upgraded hunting pistol, in which case you are just blowing limbs off and legging it while the poor bastards screams and bleeds out, drawing his friends over to walk into the bomb I'd left behind.

I love this game.

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In a fairly early section I was lying prone under something. I shot a guy in the leg and then shot his face when he dropped down. I was waiting for the Babayaga achievement to appear but it didnt :(

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20 minutes ago, nakamura said:

Good points @Vemsie, particularly regarding how dynamic it is which I do like but I don't really agree it's that good. I felt in the original I was more often in control than not, having the element of surprise on my side. I've not found shooting limbs very effective and sometimes you'll shoot someone with a rifle and they act like it's a scratch, it's a rifle!

 

When it's good it's amazing, but i feel they haven't got the balance right. Sometimes it's just a bit of a drag. They have gone for volume and size over focus imo. 


I think they really want to give you that feeling of someone who isn't a trained government agent like Sam Fisher, or a methodical hitman like Agent 47 or a badass who can just waltz through everything like the Doomslayer, but someone who needs to improvise. Someone who is always outnumbered and outgunned. Fights need to be scrappy. I think it really nails the essence of that. I always tend to start the encounters as silently as possible. Following enemy routines, trying to take them out with a stealth attack when they're isolated, eleminating goons with an arrow or a silenced shot, but I'd often fuck things up. Sometimes because I overlooked certain enemies, sometimes because I miss a shot and hit the wrong part of the body. And that's when the game really shines imo. Making a run to saftey, switching to my shotgun on the fly to deal with enemies suddently popping up, diving into grass to break line of sight, throwing a smoke bomb to distract groups of enemies, finding a little room that I can defend by placing mines near the door etc. 
I think it's a much better game than the first because ND forces you into that mindset more, by making enemies more intelligent, giving them new tools like dogs but also by making the level design more interesting, with more ways to hide and break line of sight and by giving you more tools to deal with them. And they all have their use, there's not a single item that is useless. 
Can they build upon it any further? No doubt, but I feel it's already best in class or close to it.

I think those gifs I posted yesterday convey really well how easy it is to adapt to situations but also how satisfying it all feels. Everything is on point in that regard as well. The animation, the sound design. It's just a great feedback loop. Some would say it's too satisfying to play given the themes of the game, but I'd rather have this than another Spec Ops: The Line. An interesting story, but a mechanical bore.

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4 minutes ago, Vemsie said:

think they really want to give you that feeling of someone who isn't a trained government agent like Sam Fisher, or a methodical hitman like Agent 47 or a badass who can just waltz through everything like the Doomslayer, but someone who needs to improvise.


It feels like you’re controlling Rambo most of the time 

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Yeah I also think the enemies have a lot of ammo. They never seem to run out. It doesn't feel consistent. I really like it don't get me wrong, but it feels often too messy by accident rather than design. 

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1 minute ago, the_debaser said:


It feels like you’re controlling Rambo most of the time 


It doesn't, at least not the really action-packed Rambos, because Rambo would have infinite ammo. It's too scrappy for that. It's more like First Blood or Final Blood or whatever it was called, in which he used guerrilla tactics instead of going in guns blazing. The game does nail the exploding arrows though. 

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3 minutes ago, the_debaser said:


It feels like you’re controlling Rambo most of the time 

Oh yeah :eyebrows:

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3 minutes ago, the_debaser said:


It feels like you’re controlling Rambo most of the time 

First Blood or Rambo III?

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2 minutes ago, nakamura said:

Yeah I also think the enemies have a lot of ammo. They never seem to run out. It doesn't feel consistent. I really like it don't get me wrong, but it feels often too messy by accident rather than design. 


I think that's by design. It makes it more challenging and forces you to be on the move more. Are there many games in which enemies have limited ammo period? I can't think of many.

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Which Rambo was it that had the protagonist starting up generators every few minutes and struggling with fallen over cupboards?

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1 minute ago, the_debaser said:

Which Rambo was it that had the protagonist starting up generators every few minutes and struggling with fallen over cupboards?

I think that was the one that came out last year. I haven't seen it yet.

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Just now, the_debaser said:

Which Rambo was it that had the protagonist starting up generators every few minutes and struggling with fallen over cupboards?

First Blood Seattle Day One: Come Back Later.

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1 minute ago, the_debaser said:

Which Rambo was it that had the protagonist starting up generators every few minutes and struggling with fallen over cupboards?


Except for those two generators in Seattle, you hardly ever have to do it again in a 40 hour game though.

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And done. Pretty good game overall even if the story was a bit too cliched at times and totally predictable.

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Aaand another break needed.

 

End of Day 2 I believe.

 

Jeepers.

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2 hours ago, PeteBrant said:

You may as well ask for Resi 4 to be open world . Heathen! 

 

What? You mean you're not completely up for climbing village church steeples to to reveal swathes of suspiciously similar Las Plagas mission icons in the local area?

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2 hours ago, Spacehost said:
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I think doing something like Seattle Day 1 but on a far bigger scale could be spectacular. Sneaking into buildings and experiencing largely linear, contained experiences, but also having this wide open space to explore, with the issue of finding a safe camping ground every night.

 

Not unlike a grounded Stalker, to be honest.

Seattle Day 1 spoilers. Thought it might be a suprise that's better experienced without spoiling for some.

 

I would totally be up for some of this. The Lost Legacy did similar. Naughty Dog call it "wide linear".

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I'm about a couple of hours into Day 3. How long do I have left to play?

 

It's not that I'm noit enjoying it (I'm loving it!), but the free time I have these days to play games is limited.

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2 hours ago, Spacehost said:
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I think doing something like Seattle Day 1 but on a far bigger scale could be spectacular. Sneaking into buildings and experiencing largely linear, contained experiences, but also having this wide open space to explore, with the issue of finding a safe camping ground every night.

 

Not unlike a grounded Stalker, to be honest.

Seattle Day 1 spoilers. Thought it might be a suprise that's better experienced without spoiling for some.

I've just realised there has already been a game this gen that does what I'm thinking - Metro Exodus. Replace the expansive wildenerness areas with smaller, denser urban areas, and I think that structure would suit TLOU perfectly.

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29 minutes ago, Gambit said:

I'm about a couple of hours into Day 3. How long do I have left to play?

 

It's not that I'm noit enjoying it (I'm loving it!), but the free time I have these days to play games is limited.

 



 

You're probably less than halfway

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